fussylizard

Does it happen on all blocks of the upload, or only at the very end? I notice when uploading the MB-6582 app that the last few blocks are very slow. Does it happen on all apps (e.g. SID testtone app?) or just on the MB-SID app? Does it still happen if you set a higher delay, say 1000ms between blocks?

I only get one request for an upload on mine, so I think that's fine. In MIOS Studio, I normally check the box for "Wait for upload request before starting upload" and use Smart Mode. Then I turn off the MB, and when I turn it on the upload starts automatically. (Make sure your device ID is set correctly, and set J11 to allow the target core to send MIDI out.) Did you try the manual mode in the MIOS Hex File Upload screen? You can set a delay to whatever you want and see if that fixes the issue. Do you get these errors for every block or just at the end? If so, try uploading a smaller file for testing since the MB-6582 app takes forever to upload. Try the SID Testtone app instead, nice and small. :-)

@Smithy - you just change jumpers near each SID to select 12V or 9V. I put in pin strips for the filter caps so I can change those as needed. I'm not sure how each SID type's filters would sound with the "wrong" filter cap values (there's a thread going on this I believe) but it won't cause any problems if you directly solder in filter caps and can't switch them. I do think I recall Wilba writing about doing a more simple module first to gain experience. Personally, though, I was going crazy just trying to map out all the interconnects, power supply, etc. for a stereo setup so I thought the MB-6582 was way easier. The MB-6582 requires a lot of soldering, but by the time you finish soldering all the IC sockets you'll have a lot of experience. :-) I think the big thing is to read all the available info, be careful, and take your time.

You should seriously consider using Wilba's design for the MB-6582 (http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/wilba_mb_6582). You don't need to build the control surface if you don't want it, and if you use power supply option B you can use different types of SIDs. The board+kit from SmashTV includes all the stuff you'll need to do this so it is pretty straightforward. Wilba's docs are also great, so if you're careful you shouldn't have too much trouble. I initially was going to build a basic stereo SID synth with discrete modules, but by the time I added up the costs (including all the interconnecting wires, power supply stuff, etc.) it wasn't going to be much more to just do the MB-6582. You also don't have to worry about all the interconnects since the modules are all attached together on the MB-6582 base board, so in that regard it is easier. And the power options are already there for your needs. So don't let the bigger board scare you off. It just *looks* harder, but it is much easier than the discrete solution IMHO. And you can always build the control surface later if you decide you want it (it's fantastic), or a more minimal one if that's all you need, or just program the entire thing via MIDI and the MIDIBox SID editor. And as long as you're willing to learn, the community here is great and can help you sort out any issues. If you've never soldered, there are some good videos on http://www.curiousinventor.com/guides/How_To_Solder. Keep us posted!

You mean you can actually use this thing to make music? I thought it was all about the soldering and the flashing lights! :-) I've just barely scratched the surface of it, and man, the MB-6582 is a destroyer. That "fat pulse" sound from the "first steps" section of the guide with just two SIDs is huge. I've been overwhelmed by the sound of it, it's just fantastic. I finally got around to uploading the vintage 2 presets and had some fun with that, esp. the drum sequences. Hats off to TK for the whole concept, and to Wilba and SmashTV for making it easy to build with designs, docs, and parts. Well done guys!

Thanks! Pity the end mill was only 1/2" long. It probably would have been better to make the slots 3/4" or maybe even 1", but I'm sure it will work fine as-is. :-)

BTW I tried out the screws I bought to secure the base PCB into the case (see this thread: http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,13573.msg117148.html#msg117148). I also cut ventilation slits in the side of my case (woohoo!) as documented here: http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,13502.msg117149.html#msg117149. Finally, I located some heatsinks for 28 pin DIP packages. Not sure if they'll work with the "wide" package used by the SIDs, but if they fit okay I'll post additional info on them. Basically all I have left is to get and install the final knobs, and order/install the feedback pots.

The first pic shows the result after the fifth slot was cut. Notice that the left edge of each slot is nice and clean since it was cut by the leading edge of the tool (which was moving clockwise), whereas the right edges look pretty rough. I unclamped everything and was pleasantly surprised that I could just scrape off the junk on the trailing edge with my fingernail. I used the back of an X-acto blade to scrape the final stubborn bits off, but I didn't actually have to do any cutting. The second pic and third pics show the final result. I'm really happy with the result and it was relatively easy. Pity it requires a milling machine and associated tooling to use this method, but if you have access to the tools, I highly recommend it... N.B. Those are not the final knobs... vent-rough-edges-IMG_3889.JPG vent-cut-IMG_3893.JPG vents-cut-IMG_3898.JPG vent-rough-edges-IMG_3889.JPG vent-cut-IMG_3893.JPG vents-cut-IMG_3898.JPG

I cut ventilation holes today! It went quite smoothly actually. Not sure how helpful this will be for others since I used a small milling machine to do this (instead of Wilba's Dremel-based approach), but I figured I'd document it for future reference anyway. I used a 1/8" end mill to make the cuts (first pic). End mills look similar to drill bits but drill bits are designed to cut down (to create a hole), whereas end mills are designed to cut from the side. First I used a ruler to mark five lines 1/4" apart to mark the middle of each of five slots. I also drew a line parallel to the edge of the case where the vent slits would be cut (so I would know how far into the side of the case to cut, and so each slit would be cut into the side the same distance). (Second pic; the parallel line is a bit feint, but it runs just below the five marks). Next I clamped the base part of the case upside down onto the milling table (third pic). Since the top side of the case is sloped I had to prop it up so that the slits would be perpendicular to the bottom once I flipped it back over. I also set the depth stop on the mill so that all the cuts would be the same depth (1/2" from the bottom). Once everything was lined up for the first hole I set the mill on a slow speed so I wouldn't melt the plastic (probably ~200 RPM). Once each slot was cut, I finished up the slot at probably 800 RPM (just to take off any remaining material). The fourth pic shows the first slot being cut. Continued in next post... vent-endmill-IMG_3891.JPG vent-guide-marks-IMG_3885.JPG vent-ready-to-cut-IMG_3886.JPG vent-cutting-IMG_3888.JPG vent-endmill-IMG_3891.JPG vent-guide-marks-IMG_3885.JPG vent-ready-to-cut-IMG_3886.JPG vent-cutting-IMG_3888.JPG

I'm taking my MB-6582 on a trip with me in a week and a half, so I figured I'd better actually screw down the base PCB. I used 5/16", 4-20 "thread forming" screws for ABS plastic (p/n 90380A107 at mcmaster.com). These are different than the "type B" thread-forming screws that PacTec support told Wilba to use. Per the McMaster web site type B is for metal, so I got ones they said were for ABS plastic (like the case). At any rate, they work perfectly. In the attached pic you can see a thread-forming screw compared to one of the screws to connect the top and bottom parts of the case. tapping-screws-comparison-IMG_3897.JPG tapping-screws-comparison-IMG_3897.JPG

Here's a couple more pics. 1) Here's another view of how I attached the front panel to the case after sawing out the corners 2) I glued a plexiglass window to the back side of the front panel. Not sure how well it will hold up to pressure, but it looks great! I had a couple of spacers come unglued, so I reinforced them. All the JB Weld doesn't look pretty, but looks don't matter on the back side and I wanted to ensure they stayed put. I also compared feedback pots, a 500k audio taper vs. a 100k linear taper. I think I prefer the 100k linear taper since it has a more useful range, whereas the audio taper doesn't really do much until the last eighth turn or so. Since the pots I ordered were too large, I'll have to hunt down some new, smaller ones. frontpanel-nocorners-nuts-IMG_3865.JPG frontpanel-plexiglass-IMG_3880.JPG frontpanel-nocorners-nuts-IMG_3865.JPG frontpanel-plexiglass-IMG_3880.JPG

Well I'm nearly finished with mine and I've been blown away by it. You have a lot of fun to look forward to!

I knew I'd seen something about this. From the FAQs on Wilba's docs: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/wilba_mb_6582 Is there any reason why 16-volt 2200uF caps cannot be used instead of 25-volt ones? For the 5v supply: no. For the 9v AC after the bridge rectifier: not really. I was told once to expect up to 2x the voltage after the rectivier, i.e. if it's 9v AC, choose capacitor to handle 18v DC. It really doesn't go up that high I think, and caps rated to 15v should be enough. --- FWIW I used the caps from Smash's kit on mine and it's been fine.

First pic - I ended up cutting off the corner mounting tabs with a hobby saw. Super quick and easy. The cones of JB-Weld still slightly overlapped the edges of the ledge on the top of the case where the panel is supposed to rest, so I used some small files to file down the ledge until the panel would sit flush. The purpose (as far as I can tell) of the corner screws is to hold the panel onto the top of the case and prevent the front panel from being lifted up off the case. The edges of the front panel should be sitting flush on the inside ledge of the case. If the panel is not flush against the ledge due to JB-Weld, there can be pressure on some of the corner screws which is what I believe was the main cause of my screws coming loose (literally, not figuratively!). FWIW the spacers glued to the front panel and screwed into the CS PCB hold the PCB against the front panel, not the corner screws. Since there are so many spacers, you probably don't need to go crazy on the JB-Weld for the spacers. Anyway, to hold the front panel onto the top of the case I just used a washer large enough to overlap the corner of the case (actually I had to use two washers, one to overlap the case and another smaller one to cover the main washer hole to prevent the nuts from slipping through the first washer central hole). I then used one nut to hold the washer in place, followed by a lock washer and a second nut. I would not recommend using a single nut since by doing that you are pulling the bolt away from the back side of the case, which may pull the JB-Weld off. By using two nuts tightened together, there is no pressure against the corner screw except if you try to lift off the front panel. The lock washer of course prevents the nuts from becoming loose. So in the second pic you can see from right to left: - the large washer - the small washer - the first nut - the lock washer - the second nut - the PC board BTW I had to find a smaller washer for the corner near the SID R light (upper right corner of the CS) to avoid contact with the washer, but really it shouldn't matter if the washer only touches one lead of the LED. Also, I may JB-Weld the washers in place so they won't move around during transport, but I got a small amount of pressure on the washers to keep them in place and they seem reasonably solid so far. Overall I'm fairly pleased with the mounting and would probably do it this way again if I make a second MB-6582... frontpanel-removed-corners-IMG_3851.JPG frontpanel-nocorners-nuts-IMG_3858.JPG frontpanel-removed-corners-IMG_3851.JPG frontpanel-nocorners-nuts-IMG_3858.JPG

Finally, here's some pics of how I finally ending up attaching my front panel to my case. The first pic shows (for reference) how much JB-Weld I used for the first try which didn't work out well as I noted in an earlier post. The second pic shows how much JB-Weld I used for the second try. I also used a razor blade to scratch up the back corners of the panel. The steel blade actually allowed me to cut into the soft aluminum panel and make little bits of aluminum stick up. I tried sandpaper but it just wasn't that rough. Anyway, I used a *lot* of JB-Weld the second time... ...which leads us to the third pic showing that the panel would not sit flush on the top part of the case due to the "cone" of JB-Weld. Wilba recommended "countersinking" the little corner mount holes, but with all the JB-Weld I used I wasn't sure there would be any plastic remaining. So I opted for a different approach, as will be shown in my next post. NB- Just to eliminate any confusion, note that the second picture was taken when I had to fix my completed control surface after the corner screws came loose. This is why the front panel is already built in this picture. If you're building a control surface you should follow Wilba's instructions and glue the bolts *before* soldering the control surface PCB, etc. frontpanel-corners-firsttry-IMG_3760.JPG frontpanel-corners-secondtry-IMG_3846.JPG frontpanel-corners-secondtry-notflush-IMG_3849.JPG frontpanel-corners-firsttry-IMG_3760.JPG frontpanel-corners-secondtry-IMG_3846.JPG frontpanel-corners-secondtry-notflush-IMG_3849.JPG

I have done a moderate amount of tapping aluminum by hand. After the first few successfully threaded holes the charm and wonder wears off. :-) Cutting large-diameter threads with a cutting tool on a lathe is still pretty fun though... For a minute I was thinking I could use my regular taps for the PT-10, but then I realized my regular taps would probably not work in the plastic since I think the thread pitch for plastic is much larger than for metal (i.e. threads are farther apart for plastic than metal). I'm doing OK without the PCB screwed into place for now so I'm not too concerned about it...

I haven't had any problems with the corner screws being too long. FWIW Be generous on the JB-Weld but make sure the panel can sit flush on the top of the case (mine wasn't flush, so I think the continuous pressure may have contributed to the screws becoming loose on my panel). I need to post the pics of what I ended up doing, but I sawed off the little corner tabs entirely and used large washers to hold the front panel onto the top part of the case. It worked pretty well.

Further perusing the McMaster-Carr web site makes me think I would try something like item #92525A205. It's a #4-24 3/8" tapping screw. It recommends using a #41 - #44 drill bit for the hole, and the hole in the case appears to be about a #43 (.089"). Not sure if the 1/4" or 3/8" length would be better...

@strophlex - I just got 4 screws to connect the two halves of the case together, plus the 4 screws to secure the stock front panel to the metal tabs on the top part of the case. That was it. If you got the correct screws with yours, I'm jealous! @Wilba - Not the most helpful engineering team at Pac-Tec, eh? I looked up "thread forming screws" at McMaster-Carr and they seem to call them "tapping screws". Their drawings look similar to other screws I've seen going into plastic cases. Maybe I'll order some "correct" screws from them, but that would be my third order on this project from them which is getting pretty bad from a planning perspective. :-) I may just take the wood screw or sheet metal screw route if I can find some that will fit. Thx for passing along the "official" answer, such as it is...

I haven't seen a spec on what screws to use for this. The hole is ~ .089" diameter x .250" deep, plus maybe .125" thickness for the PCB. I doubt that's a common screw size so I thought I'd ask what others have used. I couldn't find anything on the Pac-Tec site, the mechanical drawing, the intertubes, or the forum. Suggestions before I just wing it? TIA, C

Already sliding down the slippery slope it seems... :-)

Pity the hole spacing won't support just a 16-pin DIP socket for the LEDs. I ended up just fitting them in the holes without really bending the leads much and they had decent contact so it should be fine for you as long as you avoid shorts. You can probably use the brightness of your Virus lights as a gauge of brightness. I used the lights on my Mackie Big Knob as a ref, and they were surprising dim when I gave it a critical look, but they are plenty bright to see comfortably. I'm curious how yellow your LEDs turn out. I'm not about to resolder 100+ LEDs, but it might be useful for future reference. If I can find the time I'd really like to look into LED ring support for MIDIBox. I have a MIDIBox CV project to build (right after the "Where's the Party At" 8-bit sampler - http://www.narrat1ve.com/) and was considering trying LED rings on that. I have a Nord Lead 3 rack that has the LED rings and it is a thing of beauty. I hate programming soft synths since it's just too tedious to move the mouse about. Most hardware synths are also irritating since the knobs never match the settings so there is no visual reference to what is going on. Admittedly I'm a *very* novice synth programmer, but the Nord is the only synth I've had the patience to program at all. So it would be great to have LED rings for the CV project (mostly as a proof-of-concept for other projects). I don't think it would be practical on a MB-6582 since there are just so many controls. You never know, I suppose. At any rate, I've been spending my extremely limited free time of late building the MB-6582, so it will be good to get back to actually making music again. I've often debated with myself if this should all be an electronics hobby vs. a music hobby, but I'm still trying to stay in the "actually make music" camp. But I have to say I do love all the electronics stuff, so it's a tough call sometimes. :-) Oh BTW I had some knobs sitting around from another project so I temporarily attached them to the MB. Made a huge difference since twisting the bare encoder shafts was incredibly tedious. Can't wait for the real knobs though (though I have considered machining some just for the heck of it...I've never tried knurling anything though, but one has to start somewhere..). Funny how much difference that really made to the usability.

It was pretty amusing last night playing the the MB. I grew up listening to SID tunes on my '64 instead of listening to the radio or tapes much. I've played a few SID songs for my wife who graciously puts up with it (though she has heard a few she has liked, I think C-64 music is somewhat of an acquired taste). So I was playing the MB and my wife came by and said (with what sounded suspiciously like relief) "that doesn't sound like SID music". Which in a lot of ways sums up a lot of people's misconceptions about the MB SID synth. It uses SID chips as a foundation, but provides a very powerful and expressive modern synth engine. The hour or two I spent last night with it suggests to me that the power of the synth is in (1) having lots of oscillators per sound (which does limit the overall polyphony of course) and (2) (more interestingly) the amount of control one has over individual parameters. I mean, being able to control the porta rate of each oscillator individually? Awesome (try it!). I've not really even begun to scratch the surface of the beast yet, but it's looking to be LOTS of fun, and hugely inspiring. On the resistor values for LEDs I would wait as long as possible to solder them in until you are sure. I was able to test the LEDs without soldering in the resistors and they initially looked fine, but they turned out way too bright. You might try inserting the resistors without soldering them and seeing if you can bend/clip the leads so you can get the case partly closed and try to use the synth a bit before deciding. Actually using it made the difference for me in finding the correct LED brightness.

BTW I started spending a little time trying to learn the synth engine this evening (since things are in a usable state now), and all I can say is *wow*. This is one serious synth. Props to everyone who brought this little beast to life. I've spent the last hour just playing with the "fat pulse" preset in the intro page, adding modulation, portamento, filtering, etc. I just kept laughing it sounds so good. Fat and digital but in a very, very good way. That fat pulse sound uses six SID oscillators and man you can sure hear it! And this is with just one patch, woohoo!

These definitely turned out more amber than yellow. I'll see if I can get a pic to accurately portray it. I have some extra LEDs, so I can post you some if you want to try some out (PM me).