fussylizard

Quick update - I got my core and power supply boards tested and running, plus got the SMD chips and bridges soldered on my OPL board. I started to wire up and solder the cable for the display last night at midnight but thankfully I realized (a) I was getting tired and (b) I felt like I was rushing. Veteran MIDIboxers will know both are recipes for mistakes, so I opted to defer until this weekend when I'll have time to do it right. Stay tuned. @julianf - CrystalFontz makes some nice red-on-black displays. They are a bit pricey but look great, though I'm not sure what format you are looking for. I used a yellow-on-black one on my MB-6582 and love it.

I have no idea what the output of a keyboard would be (is there a standard interface or something?) but you might also consider asking around in the Midification sub-form (http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/board,5.0.html) since someone keeping up to date there might have some ideas for you. The MB-6582 board is expecting MIDI so you'd have to either hack the firmware (and the MB-6582 PC board) to somehow tell it when a key is pressed or figure out how to convert the keyboard output into MIDI and just use the MB-6582 as an internal sound module. I would think sending MIDI to the MB-6582 would be easier to do...you would basically be adding MIDI support to a keyboard (as per the "midification" forum). From what you said I assume the MIDI out function on your keyboard is broken. If not, you could just route MIDI internally to the MB-6582.

I need to write up my order list for the MB-6582 I finished a few months ago. I think it took me 2 Mouser orders, 2 SmashTV orders, and 3 McMaster-Carr orders to get everything (plus a run to Radio Shack). The major info is on the DokuWiki site, but there's a lot of other little bits that you need (e.g. SIL header connectors, different resistor values for the LEDs if necessary, nuts and bolts for mounting the LCD and fan, etc.). No ETA at the moment, but I'll try to get to it sooner rather than later and post a link here.

Update: It's been like Christmas around here. I got OPL chips from Wilba last week, I got boards and parts from SmashTV yesterday, and today I received the Paia power supply kit I'm using for the MB-FM. Also, UPS should deliver my Mouser order today (it's nice living 4 hours away from the Mouser facility - fast delivery!). So I should have a nice Optrex display in hand this evening. I built the core for the MB-FM last night. I'll test it tonight and build/test the power supply, and hopefully get a chance to test the LCD out tomorrow and report back.

You should test without the chip so you did it correctly. I think your supply voltages are OK (11.81v on pin 28, 5v on 25). The 11.81v sounds just a touch low, but it should be OK for now. I'm not sure about the 15V without digging up a schematic, but that seems reasonable. So to clarify, the CS# pin read 4.98V during the test until you selected the CS# pin with the modwheel, at which point it went to 0v, correct? So if you are not getting signals to the these pins in the socket, that is a big problem. I'll have to dig up a schematic to give more specific recommendations. With my experience building the MB-6582, IIRC the CS# line comes directly from the PIC, whereas the other lines come through the 74595 ICs. So you could well have a problem with those ICs or the way they are connected. You said earlier that the voltages on the '595 ICs were measured correctly, right (bottom left pin is ground, top right is +5v)? Are the chips inserted correctly? Check for bent pins that are not in the socket (also test continuity from the solder side of the board to the pin on the chip with no power applied). Also ensure the socket and chips are in the correct orientation. If nothing else, find the ground pin for the chip (bottom left pin) and verify the solder joint for it is connected to the ground plane (hope that makes sense!). What revs of the boards (SID and CORE) do you have?

Cool, more progress. So the audio output buffer is working, and at least you are getting some sound out of your SID! I'm at the office now so I can't write a detailed reply, but did any voltages change when you moved the modwheel? IIRC you should get 5V for whatever pin is selected by the modwheel, and the other pins tested by the interconnect test should be 0V. /CS is the opposite (0V when selected, 5V when not selected). The LCD display should show you what pin is selected. (You might want to read carefully the docs to ensure I've described this correctly from memory.) You can use this link (http://ist.uwaterloo.ca/~schepers/MJK/sid.html) to check which pins are which when testing. The top of the chip has a little cutout in it which is shown at the top of the diagram. So you should be able to test between pin 14 (ground) and each pin you are testing as you move the modwheel.

OK, so MIOS is running, that's progress! Like nils said, review the instructions carefully on the interconnect and testtone apps and report back your exact findings. It is best if you can list exactly what you tested and the result, i.e. "Tested voltage between pins x and y and got z volts". The testtone app, for example, allows you to short two pins on the IC socket together (without a SID) to test the audio output buffer circuit. Did you try that? We'll be able to help a lot more if you can provide more details. Good luck!

What happens when you run MIOS Studio? Sorry if you know the following, but just in case you don't: You should have the latest JRE installed. To test that it is working you should be able to go to a command prompt and type: java -showversion That should tell you the JRE version you have. If you get "file not found" or some other error re-install the JRE. Next unzip the MIOS Studio zipfile so you have a .jar file (e.g. MIOSStudio_beta9_0.jar). Then just open a command prompt, navigate to where the .jar file is and type: java -jar MIOSStudio_beta9_0.jar That should be it- MIOS Studio should open. If you get something like "Unable to access jarfile MIOSStudio_beta9_0.jar" then you're not in the correct directory when you run the java -jar MIOSStudio_beta9_0.jar command.

Rosch, you're a peach making a nice list and all, thanks! I just ordered one from Mouser to check it out. I should have a report by the end of the week on how it looks. If all is well I'll set up a proper bulk order page and thread. Thx, C

Wow, about 1/4 of the way there without a real thread for this. Maybe there is interest enough...

SmashTV just sent me my MB-FM boards so I'll probably order one of the green on black displays from Mouser to try one out. If it looks great and works well then I can see about doing a bulk order. With Wilba's MB-SEQ coming up there might be enough interest to get to the magic 80 pcs...

You don't need IC pullers to get the SID chip out. Just use a small flat-bladed screwdriver and *gently* pry it up. Pry one end of the chip up a mm or so (put the screwdriver next to the pins on one corner, then do the same on the opposite corner), then work on the opposite end and alternate until the chip comes up. Often you can just slide the screwdriver in between the socket and the chip (holding the screwdriver parallel to the PC board) right next to the pins along one side and the shaft of the screwdriver will slowly pull the pins out of the socket (then repeat on the other side). Just be careful and go slowly, just a mm or less at a time and it will come out.

Thanks for checking into it. 80 pcs sounds like quite a lot to me. I'm in the US so I could run an order for such a thing, but I would think it would be difficult to get up to 80 pcs. I found a thread a few weeks ago that indicated this display will work with MB projects (I'll have to find the link). Apparently the Optrex displays are a bit wider than the "standard" (i.e. CrystalFontz) but they will still *barely* fit in the mount holes on PCBs (like Wilba's MB-SEQ, etc.) without modification. So...anyone interested in these displays? Green text on a black background - http://www.optrex.com/products/partdetail.asp?PartNumber=C-51850NFQJ-LG-ACN

I was going through this thread this weekend getting caught up and saw this. Probably the funniest comment I've seen yet. :-)

I just used thin ribbon cables I got from SmashTV years ago. They are nice and flexible so very little stress on the connectors. Hand crimping those connectors took me about 2.5 hours using a crimp tool. Not the most exciting of times I must say... I do love those crimp pins and housings that SmashTV sells. I'll have to ask where he gets them so I won't be bothering him stuff like that. I finally just started ordering a bunch of each size to have them on hand since I use them so much. I tried some similar ones I found at Mouser but I had horrible luck with them. So I just ordered more from SmashTV. :-)

Should have used the right-angle connectors like me. Sorry, couldn't resist. :-) Glad you got it sorted out though!

One more machining tip I should mention: you should use a punch to mark the center of each of your holes before you drill. A punch will leave a small dimple that will keep the drill bit from "wandering" before the cutting edge bites. Here's a useful video: http://www.curiousinventor.com/guides/Metal_Working They show a punch being used starting at 3:06.

I spent a little time playing with SIDDasm. It basically generates 6510 assembly source for music routines from a .sid file. It's a bit of work (esp. if you don't know 6510 assembler) but that really is getting to the source (!) of it. This tool along with some great others is available at http://cadaver.homeftp.net/tools.htm If you're trying to extract instruments from Rob Hubbard tunes you should definitely read the article "Rob Hubbard's Music: Disassembled, Commented and Explained" in C= Hacking 5 (http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/chacking/c=hacking5.txt). Unbelievable article. It really helped me understand how SID tunes work and it makes you appreciate how much Rob Hubbard was able to do with a relatively simple player. A must-read. That said I started poking about with Zoids by RH trying to emulate some sounds. It's still a work in progress and I am using QuadraSID instead of my MB-6582 but it seems like a promising approach. That said, there are a lot of tricks to emulating these sounds, esp. when you have ring modulation involved since two voices have to be used instead of one, etc. Fun stuff though. Good luck!

Yeah, I was glad to reuse it. I'm a total pack rat so it was nice to get to use something for once. :-) Having an X/Y table is incredible. Drilling precision holes is a breeze since, unlike with a regular drill press, you don't have to clamp, reposition, and reclamp the work every time. I mostly use the mini-mill like a drill press so I've not done much else of interest with it other than the vent slits. I've seen two types of X/Y tables- ones with a vise and ones with slots for a clamping kit like on a milling machine. I'd recommend you get the version with slots and buy a clamping kit since it will be way more flexible. I think I got my clamping kit (and my mini mill) from Grizzly (www.grizzly.com). One word of warning on an X/Y table- they tend to be very tall, so if you don't have a lot of vertical travel on your drill press it can limit the height of the workpiece you can work with. (I think I also got an X/Y table from Grizzly before I switched to a mini-mill.) BTW I also have a 7x12 mini lathe that I've done quite a bit more with, mostly making threaded adapters and such out of aluminum and delrin (plastic) for a telescope. Loads of fun. I'm thinking about trying to make some nice knurled knobs for my MIDIBox projects, but I've been busy w/ other stuff.

I'm also looking for 3 for a FM + SEQ (at some point) combo. I was looking at: - Cheap option. I couldn't find a datasheet so it is not clear if these will work or not, but 3 for $20 is hard to beat: http://cgi.ebay.com/LCD-Module-PC4002LRU-BSO-B-Y8Q-40x2-w-Backlight-Qty-3_W0QQitemZ370221534134QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5632ec4bb6&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 - I normally use CrystalFontz displays since I've had good luck with them but they are pricey. If we did a buy of 10 of these they would be $20 each (so $60 + shipping for 3). http://www.crystalfontz.com/product/CFAH4002A-YYH-JT - Optrex makes a display I rather like (http://www.optrex.com/products/partdetail.asp?PartNumber=C-51850NFQJ-LG-ACN). This is the green-on-black version of the white-on-black display posted earlier. They are bloody expensive though, $40 for one (!) or $32 each for 10 at Mouser. It wasn't clear to me that they use the industry standard interface, but it sounds like others have had success w/ the white-on-black version. Can anyone confirm this? I might give it a go w/ 1 for the MB FM (next on my list) and hope for cheaper options or a large group buy for the MB SEQ since that's still a ways off. I'm really partial to the "negative" displays like the Optrex I mentioned. I wish CrystalFontz did one in 40x2 format...

Wow, looking good! It's nice to see a non-black case for a change!

The box is very flimsy plastic but it keeps the bird off the wires and keeps things safely tucked away. IIRC the Paia power supply has two LEDs and the AOUG_NG has one, so I already have some LED action going on which gets reflected many different ways by the clear box. LED goodness: check!

If you are building the MB-6582 in a PAC-10 case, I'm not sure where you would fit an AOUT module. There's a bit of space by the voltage regulators, but you still have to supply +/- 12VDC. I suppose you could add an external power supply and use the expansion port to get the voltages in. Also don't forget about space for the jacks, though again you could make use of the expansion port. For me I just figured I needed a box to hold the 1/4" jacks and the power supply, so it made sense to put everything in that.

BTW there's some more info about the Paia kit in my post here: http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,13492.msg118542.html#msg118542

BTW there is some more info on cutting vent slits with a milling machine at http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,13502.0.html First pic here is the rear holes drilled. Unfortunately I didn't support the thin plastic enough so my holes didn't come out lined up nicely and the box cracked a bit. So much for perfection... Second pic is the final result awaiting its MIDIBox.org sticker. I ended up using a DB-9 connector to the box and making DB-9 to DB-25 cable to connect it to the MB-6582 expansion port. Third pic is everything hooked up. The clear plastic reflects the power LEDs nicely though it is not very visible in the picture. The two rear jacks of the AOUT_NG is going to a Moogerfooger lowpass filter. Pity the Moogerfooger doesn't have an amplitude envelope on it. Anyway, it worked out pretty well, and with a nice long ribbon cable I can just sit it at the back of my desk out of the way... Now if I can just finish up an MIDIBox FM project (and maybe a MIDIBox Seq?) I can get back to actually *making* music instead of making things that make music. :-) IMG_4379-AOUT_NG rear holes drilled.JPG IMG_4388-AOUT_NG done.JPG IMG_4395-AOUT_NG connected in box.JPG IMG_4379-AOUT_NG rear holes drilled.JPG IMG_4388-AOUT_NG done.JPG IMG_4395-AOUT_NG connected in box.JPG