Wilba

MB-SEQ V3/V4 Control Surface PCB and matching case

541 posts in this topic

Hey Wilba,

Got my parts! I wanted to know if I can start soldering all the pieces (besides the leds) now while I wait for my panel. I read your construction guide but am still not sure if I should go ahead and start soldering diodes,resistors,switches,caps and headers while I wait for my panel. Would there by any reason to NOT DO the soldering now? I would like to test out the control surface in the meantime.

And also here is a case I was thinking of using with your pcb and a core32 and probably without an internal power supply.

http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/5626-box-sloped-alum-17x11-3-blk-blu-1456rl1bkbu.html

http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/1456RL1.pdf

http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/9c2pg78-81.pdf

Any reasons why this case might not work? It has a 10 degree slope which I would think is better for standing up and looking down on it rather than sitting position. I know it is over 2x times the 5" length but we could all use some place to rest our wrists while playing the thing :) I just thought I would post this here in case any one else wanted to try to use this case as well. I think its around $40 US and its aluminum and has a black top panel and the rest of the case is textured blue.

Regards,

echo

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Yeah you can do LEDs last... in fact, it makes sense to do the LEDs last because they overlap other parts.

That case looks interesting... I assume you're going to mount another panel on top?

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I was thinking just send in the top panel to fpe and have them cut,paint it and send it back to me. And about the order of things, I forgot to get the required resistors for the leds as I thought for some reason the resistor networks would take care of that. oh well back to frys:) I will probably have some build questions like the resistor hole/pads leading to an open hole/pad then going to the appropriate led pad/hole. I don't get it ...yet:)

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Not sure what you mean...

If you're referring to J3, that's an optional output so you can reposition the Beat LED, e.g. putting it in between the LCDs like TK's original MB-SEQ panel. There's three pins in case you want to use a bicolor LED. The Beat LED footprint on the PCB is for a single color 5mm LED, because I thought a 5mm round red LED would look cooler and contrast better with the other LEDs... and it does.

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I kinda answered my own question with your help :) On some of the pads I noticed that the trace goes to another pad which does not need to be occupied and then the trace continues to its destination. I forgot that the current would still pass through the middle pad.

PS Like how you were able to fit your logo in there. It would be cool to get your logo on the front panel cut out with custom diffused acrylic window with red beat led behind it. Maybe on the back by the jacks so people at shows can go "what the hell is that!" :)

Regards,

echo

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I asked julianf if he could make panles and sent him the unopt 19" .fpd file. He can do it, but will not be able to make the threaded blind holes. Here is his reply:

For the panel sent, with all engraving either left silver or infilled in white across the entire panel (there is no change in price for infill) and the holes drilled right through (ie visable bolts) the cost would be GBP £100 per panel.

This price includes EU taxes, but not delivery.

The cutter used on the square holes would be a 2.28mm dia end mill, leaving a 1.14mm radius.  This is the same diameter cutter as i use to cut the square holes on the x0xb0x panels - ie the corner radius is in no way noticable.  (the .fpd file sent has the 'automatic selection' button checked)

For comparrison, Shaeffers pricing works out at GBP 147.69 (inc tax) on the file sent, so my price is 32% (or about 1/3) less for those that are happy to see the bolt heads.

"All quotes are good for a period of 21days, include all EU taxes, but are exclusive of shipping.  Quotes assume bank payment.  Credit cards carry surcharge.  Custom work may require pre-payment."

If anybody is interested, drop him a line.

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I asked julianf if he could make panles and sent him the unopt 19" .fpd file. He can do it, but will not be able to make the threaded blind holes. Here is his reply:

If anybody is interested, drop him a line.

Note that Schaeffer's price might be including the threaded blind holes and cavities on the back side for LCD windows - work on the back side costs extra.

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Note that Schaeffer's price might be including the threaded blind holes and cavities on the back side for LCD windows - work on the back side costs extra.

Can you explain the might? Is it optional or don't you know?

I will probobly order from Schaffer eventhough it is slightly more expencive. I want blind holes :D

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Quick one about the switches. On the schematic, pins 1 and 2 are the same and pins 3 and 4 are the same correct? On the board you can mount the switches two different ways. How can I tell which way to mount them or does it not matter, either way will work? I took some time off from midi box and just don't want to screw myself cause I am out of practice. ;)

Regards,

Chris

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Can you explain the might? Is it optional or don't you know?

I don't know which file julianf used to get his price, or if he took off the cavities and threaded blind holes before getting a quote.

So the price difference might not be between panels made without the cavities and threaded blind holes.

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Quick one about the switches. On the schematic, pins 1 and 2 are the same and pins 3 and 4 are the same correct? On the board you can mount the switches two different ways. How can I tell which way to mount them or does it not matter, either way will work? I took some time off from midi box and just don't want to screw myself cause I am out of practice. ;)

You can see the internal diagram of the switch here: http://spec.e-switch.com/P-J/P001099C.pdf

Like most of these tactile switches with four pins, there are two pairs of pins which are connected internally. It's also intended that PCBs can use this internal connection like a bridge or an additional track, and I use this on the MB-SEQ (and did on the MB-6582 also)... switches on the same matrix "row" are connected together through this internal connection.

So it doesn't matter which way you mount the switch, it's symmetrical.

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I don't know which file julianf used to get his price, or if he took off the cavities and threaded blind holes before getting a quote.

So the price difference might not be between panels made without the cavities and threaded blind holes.

So, if using your .fpd files and order the pannel from Schaeffer then the cavities and blind holes for the LCD are included. As I understand it Julianf can make the cavities, but not the blind holes. He will either make the hole right through or no hole at all. The price he gave is for the 19" version.

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You should check if he can make 2mm or 2.5mm deep holes of 3mm diameter, without thread... this would let you glue a 3mm threaded stud into the hole (yes, with JB-Weld) and give a very solid joint, but not be visible from the top panel. I no longer recommend gluing the flat head of a countersunk screw to the back of a panel (like MB-6582) because too many people have trouble with this, and they are relatively weak joints, but a screw into a 3mm unthreaded hole filled with JB-Weld would be very strong. Since the rest of the design (at least the other prototype panels) uses JB-Weld and 10mm threaded spacers, people might have the JB-Weld anyway.

Another alternative to consider: instead of threaded studs, use 10mm threaded spacers where I've used studs... however it might be tricky to align PCB to panel during the gluing of the spacers, without any studs to guide the PCB (only switch caps in the holes, for example), you'll need to lightly clamp and then shift the PCB to get better alignment before tightening the clamps. People who have built an MB-6582 before will know what I mean ;-) it's not impossible to do, it just takes careful planning and patience.

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Any recommendations on aluminum panel thickness for rack-mounted gear?  I noted that TK's MB-FM panel for FPE is only 2mm thick which seems a bit thin.  If you're putting back-side blind holes (threaded or otherwise) you'll certainly need some depth.

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Any recommendations on aluminum panel thickness for rack-mounted gear?  I noted that TK's MB-FM panel for FPE is only 2mm thick which seems a bit thin.  If you're putting back-side blind holes (threaded or otherwise) you'll certainly need some depth.

I think the .fpd file för the rack mount panel specifies 3mm aluminum.

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Just a couple more questions and i'l be done ;)

Last night I finished soldering the pcb and have to say it was very painless and only took a couple hours. Nice job Wilba!

My first question is about the data wheel encoder. It gets mounted underneath the pcb correct? If this is correct what is the best way to get the encoder's data pins to the soldering pads on the pcb? Should I just bend the pins straight up on the encoder or solder cut resistor leads to

the encoder pins then solder the cut leads to the pcb pads?

Next and hopefully last question.

Can the j ports by the data wheel be left open or do they need headers and jumpers?

Regards,

Echo

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My first question is about the data wheel encoder. It gets mounted underneath the pcb correct? If this is correct what is the best way to get the encoder's data pins to the soldering pads on the pcb? Should I just bend the pins straight up on the encoder or solder cut resistor leads to

the encoder pins then solder the cut leads to the pcb pads?

I prefer three wires from the encoder pins to the pads of J4, which is connected by tracks to the encoder footprint pads. Numbers on the top show you which goes where (basically, the wires don't cross), thus you don't use the encoder footprint pads.

Can the j ports by the data wheel be left open or do they need headers and jumpers?

No headers or jumpers needed here. As above, use J4 for the datawheel encoder pins. J3 is optional beat LED header, not required if you solder a 5mm beat LED to the PCB.

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You should check if....

Hehe... i didnt realise there was a thread here, or id have commented earlier.

The quote i gave to Johan was for the routing as specified (ie window cut in rear etc) but with the holes right through the panel, rather than with threadded blinds.

I made the comment that ordering from me with the proposed changes would work out almost GBP £50 cheaper than ordering the panel as spec'ed from shaeffer.  Shaeffers price will certainly become cheaper if you take out the threadded blinds (ie then giving more of a like-for-like comparrison although my price will still be cheaper even then : ) but this was not the point i was making in the original quote - simply that if anyone wanted threadded blinds, shaeffer would a better option, all be it at considerably more money (which is where the 30 somthing percent came into it!)

As for non-threadded blinds - thats entirely possible.  Its not the milling thats the hassel, but the threadding.  Non-threadded blinds are no more complex than the stepped cut-out arround the viewing screen.

For those who havent seen my rantings on the SID forum, and dont have much of an idea what im on about, the following link may shed some more light -

http://www.thebeast.co.uk/cnc/

Thank you,

Julian

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Hey julianf, thanks for the info... I hope I didn't come across as critical, I just wanted people to know what the differences were.

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Oh, no - not at all... i hadnt got any of that.

Basically, the bottom line is -

I cant quite do evreything shaeffer does (or at least not at a sensible price), but...

For those wanting what i can do, my pricing generally works out significantly cheaper : )

If someone is wanting to watch expenditure, esp. if they live in europe, id like to think i offer a good choice for what i offer - indeed, i actually offer some things that shaeffer doesnt too (with regards to thicknesses, finishes, etc)

It all depends what people desire, and what their situation is.

Id always encorage people to spend their cash according to their personal desires!

Thanks, Julian

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@Wilba: How will Dougs case attach to the panel? Will the panel have to be processed further? Will anything more than the CS PCB rely on the studs and JB-Welded spacers? I had no problem with my MB6582 panel, so maybe drilling no holes in the back side of the panel and doing it the MB6582 way with JB-Welded countersunk screws using julianf's panel is an option after all...

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Doug's case (or at least the last evolution of the design) is to mount the panel to the case sides through the four studs on the sides of the panel, i.e. where I used studs. The side pieces would have a folded edge with holes. Then the case front, rear and bottom sides would mount to the sides.

JB-Weld-ed countersunk screws would probably not be ideal in this case, because you want the folded edge of the side piece to be flat against the back of the panel, and not be obstructed by the screw head and blob of JB-Weld.

If you're getting a panel done by Schaeffer or FPE, then go with threaded blind holes, otherwise go with just non-threaded blind holes/JB-Weld in the hole... that would be almost as good and let the folded edge of the side piece be flat against the panel.

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Doug's case (or at least the last evolution of the design) is to mount the panel to the case sides through the four studs on the sides of the panel, i.e. where I used studs. The side pieces would have a folded edge with holes. Then the case front, rear and bottom sides would mount to the sides.

The stress on the studs will be much greater then on the corner screws of the mb6582, so this is obviously a different story.

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