Wilba Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'm using a combined LED and switch matrix.One 74HC595 is used as a current sink for 8 "columns" of LEDs and switches.One 74HC595 is used as a current source for 8 "rows" of LEDs.One 74HC165 is used to sample the state of 8 switches in one "column".The remaning 5 74HC165 are used to sample the encoder states. Four of these are close to the step encoders (to minimize traces), the fifth is on the far right and connects to the menu encoder. If you use encoders with switches, then the 16 step encoder switches (wired in parallel) and the menu encoder's switch are connected to this 74HC165.When putting switches in a matrix, you need to put a diode in series (in this case, cathodes are connected to the "column"), similarly the LEDs are connected with common cathodes. The diodes prevent false triggering if more than one switch is pressed at a time - without them, the current could be sinking switches on more than one column.DIN/DOUT on the same PCB is good, but quite hard to layout, it takes a long time to find the best places to fit the ICs and then even more time optimizing the traces, thus you may start out with switches and LEDs at certain positions in the matrix and then swap them around. For example, the 16 step switches and 16 step LEDs are connected to the 8 matrix columns in a pattern - each column has two switches and two LEDs, but the left and right sides are in a different order. Similarly, the switches roughly below each pair of step switches are connected to the same column of the matrix, but thereafter the row connections are not always regular.I'm not sure which resistors you say are missing - if you mean for the LEDs, then you only need one resistor per matrix row (i.e. connected to the 74HC595) but I've also used two sometimes, i.e. the 74HC595 connects to two resistors, one leading to some LEDs on the right side. If you mean missing resistors for the DIN, there are 6-pin 10K resistor networks next to each 74HC165.BTW it is the same kind of switch/LED matrix I used on the MB-6582, with the exception that I do not use transistors for the columns, since the MB-6582 has two 74HC595 supplying a 16x8 LED matrix, the SEQ only has an 8x8 LED matrix. So you can see some kind of schematic in the wiki (http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/wilba_mb_6582 see "Control Surface Wiring"). Note the JDx connections are (essentially) 1:1 with DIN/DOUT D0..D8 pin outputs.If this is your first time designing PCBs, perhaps it might be easier to do it like the MB-6582 control surface - don't put the DIN/DOUT on the PCB, just do the matrix on the PCB and connect it to external DIN/DOUT modules. For an MB-SEQ (potentially 17" wide!) there will be plenty of room for DIN/DOUT modules in the case, so the matrix will just mean you need less DIN/DOUT modules. I've attached the matrix pin assignments, I assume this is correct, but it's not really that important if it is not - you will need to define your own, but you could use this as a guide - i.e. see how I've arranged switches into columns to sort of match their horizontal location. If you match the GP LED assignments, that would be ideal, because then you can use the same code in MB-SEQ firmware.MB-SEQ matrix pin assignments.zipMB-SEQ matrix pin assignments.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultra Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 well i'll be damned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyo Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Wow thank you for all this precious details. Now I have to read it again and again until it gets clear. I will probably come back to you once I have it all sorted out (as I said I lack electronic knowledge to understand all this in a glimpse).About the diodes, I missed them on the BLM wiring diagram. I was probably half asleep when I read it ... As for the resistors I took resistor networks for row headers, which I couldn't explain either.Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modularman Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I have to say that I think this is the most exciting development yet for the MidiBox sequencer, along with the Ultracore module and panel and case hardware this makes the MBSeq project available to a huge number of people with basic soldering and kit building skills. I would be building one anyhow, but the time I save would probably allow me to build an MB-6582 too and still leave plenty of time to spend actually learning and using them instead of building. The fact that the case and control panel could also be used with the MBSeq 4 makes it even more of a must have............. :) I've added my order to the 100+ already on the list, the only thing that worries me a little is the panel and case seem to be holding things up at the moment. Any chance of just a pcb for those that are able to source their own switches, knobs, led's, encoders and Schaeffer panel? Don't get me wrong, I'd MUCH prefer to buy panel, case and components but I'm just impatient to get building ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 The problem is, 90% of people are waiting for Doug's case/panel, and I will not be ordering PCBs until that case is prototyped and ready for ordering. The alternative is running the bulk order for PCBs and parts before cases are ready and then have everyone getting annoying at Doug for holding up their MB-SEQ project.In theory I could run a "bulk order" for 10 PCBs now, but they would be quite expensive - US$50 each maybe. Add in the cost of Schaeffer panels and an order from Mouser for parts and the price might scare you :oIf there is enough interest (10+) from "bleeding edge prototypers" wanting just a PCB and willing to buy all the other parts themselves (inc. panel) at non-bulk-order prices, then I'll do a mini PCB bulk order. These would be people willing to pay the ~US$175+ for a panel from Schaeffer/Front Panel Express. Unless you have a CNC router in your workshop, self-made panels are not an option.Judging from TK and bugfight's success, it seems documented well enough to build it without much help from me. People who bought the Soundwell encoders from me or mc4, and Re'an knobs from nebula, and already have an ultracore, are ideally suited to build it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modularman Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 That sounds good to me. I'd be happy to be a "bleeding edge prototyper" at $50 for pcb to get things moving (assuming I could have panel .fpd file too, don't fancy laying that out myself :o). Just need another 9 impatient builders now.............. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Sign me up!(also, if you have any spare encoders, perhaps I can haul them away for you...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 The problem is, 90% of people are waiting for Doug's case/panel, and I will not be ordering PCBs until that case is prototyped and ready for ordering. The alternative is running the bulk order for PCBs and parts before cases are ready and then have everyone getting annoying at Doug for holding up their MB-SEQ project.As I get it, it is just a case would people get annoyed at Doug or you? Don`t get me wrong, I`m really not annoyed at any of you nor I`m burning of desire to get the PCB, but my opinion is that it is better to start building the project so it can be housed when the case is ready than just wait endlessly. I have a bunch of projects without a case (2xMB6582, MB808, 9090...) and it takes maybe half an hour to put it all in their cases. It will happen one day, but at least I finished main and most time consuming part of building it - electronics and wiring.As I said, I`m not so desperate to get myself the PCB but I see not much point in waiting. I heard the Doug has some medical problems and I`m truly sorry for him, but we can hardly help him with delaying the bulk, and he probably have more important thing on his mind right now than making the panels. I wish him soon and full recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 As I get it, it is just a case would people get annoyed at Doug or you?To use MB-6582 as a case example, people may have got annoyed waiting for parts kits, panels, bulk orders for knobs, etc. This time I'd rather people get annoyed at me for teasing them with PCB designs they can't have until other parts like panels/cases are ready.In addition, the actual rear panel layout is still a bit undefined, as I haven't been working with Doug on this (and the prototype case design) for a while. I am still not sure whether to use panel mounted sockets vs. an extra I/O PCB and much cheaper PCB-mount sockets. Each has their advantages (e.g. PCB-mount USB is an easy addition, and I now have 500 of the same PCB-mount rocker switches used on MB-6582!)The impression I got from people replying to my "questionnaire" was that most people want a pre-fabricated and cheap panel/case solution, i.e. they'll wait for Doug's panel/case, and also want the uncommon parts that work with this PCB/panel (switches, encoders, knobs).I have a bunch of projects without a case (2xMB6582, MB808, 9090...) and it takes maybe half an hour to put it all in their cases. It will happen one day, but at least I finished main and most time consuming part of building it - electronics and wiring.For this MB-SEQ project, soldering the parts to the PCB is not very time consuming at all! The switches and encoders snap-in, meaning you can do them all at one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 OK. I`m fine what ever you decide.I am still not sure whether to use panel mounted sockets vs. an extra I/O PCB and much cheaper PCB-mount sockets.You can design PCB to have both, so one can decide which to use. I design the main board of standalone mb808 for PCB mount sockets, but after talk to Mike I`m not so sure too. He said it happens often PCB sockets, and even PCB itself brake if somebody trips over the cable. So I`m thinking about having both variants, as it is on ultracore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultra Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 the ultracore wasn't designed to have pcb sockets mounted to it. you can jump to another pcb with ribbon cable if you need that. the reason is because i didn't want to design the board based on the placement/sizing/whatever of those sockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 reason is because i didn't want to design the board based on the placement/sizing/whatever of those sockets.Smart move, way easier that way ;)[me=nILS]looks at TK and whistles[/me] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 My mistake... I mixed up different projects. :Pthe ultracore wasn't designed to have pcb sockets mounted to it. you can jump to another pcb with ribbon cable if you need that. the reason is because i didn't want to design the board based on the placement/sizing/whatever of those sockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringmod45 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hi Wilba,Nice to see that you willing to do a small run to help people. You passed me your fpd file and I have finalized my panel. A couple of friends and I want to make a few of these. How people do you have to so far? we are willing to get 5 sets, if that helps please let me know. I can prepay to ease the cash outlay, many thanks for all your work.Has there been a layout designed for the V4 core board, yet? It might help to have the mounting holes laid out on the pcb's for the future build.Regards,R.In theory I could run a "bulk order" for 10 PCBs now, but they would be quite expensive - US$50 each maybe. Add in the cost of Schaeffer panels and an order from Mouser for parts and the price might scare you :oIf there is enough interest (10+) from "bleeding edge prototypers" wanting just a PCB and willing to buy all the other parts themselves (inc. panel) at non-bulk-order prices, then I'll do a mini PCB bulk order. These would be people willing to pay the ~US$175+ for a panel from Schaeffer/Front Panel Express. Unless you have a CNC router in your workshop, self-made panels are not an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modularman Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I'd certainly like one set of boards if you would consider doing a small pre production run, I'm happy to pay up front too......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I am in for one too if it is ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogah Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 +1 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 OK... I have enough orders for an 11 PCB production.Wilba: 1Modularman: 1/tilted/: 1ringmod45: 5strophlex: 1moogah: 1nebula: 1Sometimes you get more PCBs than you ordered and paid for, in that case, I'll sell the spares here to other bleeding edge prototypers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waveformer Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 +1 if you get spares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/tilted/ Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I think it just moved.Thanks wilba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janvanvolt Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 If it's $50 for the PCB, i am in with one PCB as well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultra Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 i finished this today. well, besides the case of course. and the lcd on the right arrived defective, you can sorta see the vertical lines in the picture. i couldn't do this in a couple of nights like the other guys did, but it still was a fun build and look at the result :)! it all went together very smoothly. thanks a lot wilba for this great design. i got into electronics 2+ years ago to build a seq. i kept learning better ways of doing things and starting over, so i ended up with my ultracore and this panel and control surface design. i'm pretty happy right now :).very many thanks to you tk for making this awesome project. i'll be up late tonight.#0000000000000000000004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 HULK LIKES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted March 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 * Wilba is green with envy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 That is beautiful green machine!!! Congratulations.Can you tell us something about those LCDs except that you got one defective? I hope you`ll get replacement for that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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