The code for the PIC on SmashTV site, etc.

[XTheWoodX]

Greetings. 

I have perused the ucapps.de site for two weeks now and thus familiarized myself with the process to an extent.  The "Wiki" was also quite helpful.

Out of all of the designs for the MIDIBox Sid, I have decided to build the "Minimum Control Surface for Multiple SIDs."  In particular, I would like to design one much like the one built by Swindus at http://www.midibox.org/blog/?p=27

On the SmashTV website, I see that "kits" are available: is the purchase of just one sufficient for the construction of a MIDIBox SID with 4 6581's?  How many of each included component are supplied in each kit?  Also, where are the actual audio outputs (RCA or 1/4"?)

I have fished through this site for hours on end and gained a fair understanding of the building process; since users and experienced builders visit this site frequently, I hope that someone who has already completed a similar project or has much experience with such an undertaking can help me choose the correct kit.

Lastly, also on the SmashTV website, I find that one must provide a 16-digit code for the PIC.  Since I will need four, exactly which codes should I enter?  If I purchase those "-Programmed with bootloader and MIOS firmware--" will I still be required to program something, or can I assume that once the MIDIBox SID is built (properly, of course) it will work?  Am I required to know how to code and work with computer languages? 

Thank you for your time and assistance.  As consideration for any help that you can provide and out of my sincerest gratitude, if I may be of service to you in any way, please feel free to send me a message or post one on this thread.

Wishing you the best of luck with all of your goals and projects,

XTheWoodX. :)

[frailn]

Hey and welcome...

You can see from this photo on Swindus' forum post that he hast one Core module and two SID modules purchased from SmashTV (the green PCB's). The other sections are circuits built on prototyping board - upper right is the optimized PSU, to the left of the PSU looks like a bankstick board (think of it like memory for saving patches). Bottom left is the DIN board (digital input) for the buttons and encoders.

For four SIDs and a minimal control surface, you will need to buy 2 core kits, 4 SID kits and a DIN kit.

[XTheWoodX]

Hello Frailn, it is nice to talk to you again. =)  Thank you for your reply.

I do not see the photo that you are referring to in your post, unfortunately.  At this moment, I am searching for the post...

Found it.  I see what you mean at: midibox.org Forum > Archive > MIDIbox of the Week (Moderators: TK, stryd_one) > Stereo SID V2

So, on my list for SmashTV should be 2 cores, 4 SID kits, and one DIN kit.  I presume that you can connect two SID kits to one Core.  After reading through these pages so many times, I feel it essential to install a bankstick board as well but it appears that SmashTV does not sell them.  I can buy the banksticks themselves from them (24LC512) but not the board.  Where can I find one?

Also, where can I purchase the optimized PSU? 

As for the PICs, if I purchase only 2 for both Cores that will drive the 4 SID kits, what exactly should I enter in the fields with the 16 zeros (the PIC ID Header?)  If I have read these pages correctly, the pics must be numbered 1 and 2, indicating one as master and the other as slave.  Therefore, what will that 16-digit number (the PIC ID Header) look like in the end? 

Lastly, if I buy the preprogrammed PICs, does this mean that I will not have to program anything i.e. I will not have to install MIOS or connect the unit to a PC in order to execute an initial setup of some kind to make the unit work?  If I understand this correctly, if I buy the preprogrammed PIC, I will not have to do any programming of any kind.  This is the outcome that I am hoping for.

If Swindus himself happens to view this post, I would appreciate any feedback or information that you may deem necessary to my successful completion of this project.

Thanks again for the information and for your help, Frailn, and for informing of this forum.

Best regards, :)

XTheWoodX.

[nILS]

Found it.  I see what you mean at: midibox.org Forum > Archive > MIDIbox of the Week (Moderators: TK, stryd_one) > Stereo SID V2

Next time links us ;-) http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,11707.0.html

So, on my list for SmashTV should be 2 cores, 4 SID kits, and one DIN kit. 

Correct.

I presume that you can connect two SID kits to one Core.

Correct as well.

After reading through these pages so many times, I feel it essential to install a bankstick board

Yep, not having one/two/three banksticks is a major pain, as you can only have one patch at a time. But you  apparently know that already.

as well but it appears that SmashTV does not sell them.  I can buy the banksticks themselves from them (24LC512) but not the board.

Correct.

Where can I find one?

Well the bankstick "board" is so simple that there is not really a board. Some people have etched a bunch of them, but it's definitely easy enough to do on perfboard as there's not really any components needed except for the EEPROMs.

Also, where can I purchase the optimized PSU?

If you mean a PCB for the optimized PSU, what I just said is valid as well. It's too simple, there's no ready-to-buy boards.

As for the PICs, if I purchase only 2 for both Cores that will drive the 4 SID kits

Yes.

what exactly should I enter in the fields with the 16 zeros (the PIC ID Header?)  If I have read these pages correctly, the pics must be numbered 1 and 2, indicating one as master and the other as slave.  Therefore, what will that 16-digit number (the PIC ID Header) look like in the end?

There's a neat little "PIC ID" Calculator applet on Smash's site. All you need to do is set the deviceID to 0 for one and to 1 for the other - the rest will remain as is in most cases.

Lastly, if I buy the preprogrammed PICs, does this mean that I will not have to program anything i.e. I will not have to install MIOS or connect the unit to a PC in order to execute an initial setup of some kind to make the unit work?

No. Preprogrammed means it only has the bootloader and MIOS on it. You will need to connect the core(s) to a PC via MIDI cable and use the MIOS Studio Application that can be downloaded on ucapps.de to upload the Application.

If I understand this correctly, if I buy the preprogrammed PIC, I will not have to do any programming of any kind.  This is the outcome that I am hoping for.

Programming - well um, not really. You do not have to actually code anything, depending on your CS you might have to edit some tables that have PIN numbers in them. That's really not a big deal though - there's even a nice little WIKI page about it ;-)

If Swindus himself happens to view this post, I would appreciate any feedback or information that you may deem necessary to my successful completion of this project.

You might want to post in his thread or write a PM to him about that ;-)

[XTheWoodX]

Dear Nils Podewski,

That was very helpful; thank you for such a detailed reply.

I see now that I must use MIOS Studio in order for MIOS and the application to work properly.  Now, can the application (I can infer from what I have read on the http://www.ucapps.de/mios_bootstrap_newbies.html that an "application" specific to the kind of machine is what is loaded... on that page, the example of the MIDIMon is used in order to make a MIDIMon functional... please correct me if I am wrong) for the MIDIBox SID that is just like Swindus be downloaded from the web site in .syx format and transmitted to the MIDIBox SID that I am building in Cubase 4.1.2?  Probably not, and MIOS Studio may be easier to use, but I admit that I am a bit apprehensive about this since step since I am not very keen on computers.  As a History professor, my knowledge of such subjects is rather limited.  :-\

Lastly, when did you use MIOS Studio?  Was it toward the beginning of your project or was it at the end?  To me, it sounds like a phase that is best saved for the end, once everything is soldered, assembled, and so forth.

Thanks again, Nils Podewski.  I will IM Swindus with a few more questions specifically about his project.  Please remember that if I can help you in any way, you need only contact me at any time.  I am most grateful.

Respectfully yours,

XTheWoodX

[frailn]

Sorry I did not link to that photo in my first post - I was in a hurry and it slipped my mind!

can the application...be downloaded from the web site in .syx format and transmitted to the MIDIBox SID that I am building in Cubase 4.1.2?

You will need to download SID version 2 application from ucapps.de. The download has multiple files/folders. You will upload the hex file to your Core module once it has been assembled, LCD attached, voltages properly tested and PIC inserted. You will use MIOS Studio to upload the hex file via MIDI. Here are the general steps I took on my first attempt to build a CORE plus SID:

1. Assembled Optimized PSU circuit and test voltages.

2. Assembled all components of CORE module except the IC chips.

    a. tested voltages as suggested by Thorsten on ucapps.de

    b. connected LCD

    c. retested voltages as suggested by T on ucapps.de

    d. inserted IC chips into core

    e. connected MIDI cables from my PC to the CORE

    f. opened up MIOS Studio and followed TK's instructions for connecting MIDI IN's and OUT's in MIOS Studio

    g. powered up the core and crossed fingers. If all goes well, you will see the copyright for a few seconds, then "Ready."

    h. use the MIDI troubleshooting section of MIOS Studio to sent text messages from your PC to the CORE that should show up on your LCD screen, if you like.

3. Assembled one SID module (all components except IC chips).

  a. tested tested voltages as suggested by Thorsten on ucapps.de

  b. connected Core module to SID module. I did this wrong at first and couldn't get sound out of the SID. After searching the forum, I discovered the simplest way to connect the CORE to SID is with a 10-pin female connector to DIL using 10 pin ribbon cable from SmashTV. Powered on CORE, retested voltages

  c. inserted IC chips into SID module

  d. connected to speakers/sound output

  d. uploaded SID version 2 HEX file to core.

  e. rebooted Core/SID. Crossed fingers and saw the SID software screen come up on LCD!

  f. opened up the little softsynth keyboard in MIOS Studio and played a few notes.

4. Assembled one Bank Stick.

  a. I  used a desoldered joystick port from an old C64. Soldered it to the OPSU prototype board.

  b. Soldered wires from old joy port to CORE per ucapps instructions.

  c. Soldered the EEPROM with wires to a female DSUB connector from Radio Shack.

  d. inserted DSUB and EEPROM in a connector hood.

  e. plugged in the newly assembled bank stick to old joy port

  e. booted up Core

  g. Core will recognize your bankstick automagically and format it for you.

  h. Used MIDI-OX to upload TK's preset patches to the bankstick via MIDI cables connected to CORE. The preset patches are part of the SID version 2 download package mentioned above. It is a Sysex file. So use MIDI-OX not MIOS Studio to upload it. MAKE SURE THAT MIDI-OX IS SET TO 7200ms DELAY. I didn't do that and the upload kept crashing. Once the delay was set, it uploaded with no issue.

If I missed a step in here, I apologize. Do not take this post as the comprehensive guide, because I just build my first CORE and one SID module. These are the steps I remember taking in the order I remember taking them, but as you get closer to actually powering up and hearing sound, memory becomes blurred with excitement.

You sound like me - read, read, read - in preparation and worried about missing something due to lack of experience in these techniques and technologies. However, after reading for weeks, it didn't all truly come together in my head until I had my hands on the PCB's and components and was putting them together. Once you get your hands dirty, it will all start coming together.

[XTheWoodX]

Thank you for your recent post, Frailn.  And once more, thank you for inviting me to the forum.

On my shopping list, I have the following for a complete box much like Swindus minimal setup:

- 2 CORE Kits

- 4 SID Kits

- 1 DIN Kit

- 1 optimized PSU (still not too clear on how to "optimize" and exactly what that means... in ucapps, I read how to make the c64 PSU work with the MIDIBox SID but until I read the post that you refered me to before, I had not heard of the "optimized" psu.  If possible, please explain to me exactly what this is/means.)

- 1 LCD (I would prefer the 2x40 display, however, I see that some additional programming may be required so I will opt for the 2x20 instead.)

- 1 eeprom 24LC512 chip for the "bankstick."

- ribbon cables (don't know exactly how many yet)

- 1 male and 1 female dsub connector for the bankstick.

- some perf boards.

Does that sound sufficient to you, for now?  And my final question for now involves MIOS Studio... exactly how difficult is it to transfer those files to the core? 

Thank you for the break down that you provided in your previous message.  That made it all look so much simpler than before.  Even though you stated that it was your first completed unit, I have seen your work before (the Commodore 64 that you rewired to work with Prophet 64 and an extra SID) and it is quite impressive!  I will follow the general direction of your steps as closely as possible.

Indeed, I will most likely order the parts Friday evening.  Then, I will begin work on this project.

My father has been an engineer for the past 30 years, and was a ham radio operator/builder.  I will rely on his assistance for the minute details (soldering tips, how to read schematics, etc.)

I am much obliged to you and Mr. Podewski. 

Respectfully yours,

XTheWoodX.

[lylehaze]

The first step is to get the bootloader into the core. If you buy your PIC chips from SmashTV, this will be done already. If not, you'll need some kind of PIC programmer.

Getting everything else in the core requires only MIOS studio and some kind of MIDI interface for your PC or Mac.

It's not too hard at all. Really quite simple!

You'll see.

Have Fun,

LyleHaze

[frailn]

- 2 CORE Kits

- 4 SID Kits

- 1 DIN Kit

Corrrect.

still not too clear on how to "optimize" and exactly what that means...

You are correct, the C64 power supply is used. The "optimized psu circuit" takes the incoming power and splits into a 5v line for the Core, 9v line for the SID modules and separate line for a "power on" LED. It also cleans the power, reducing noise in your sound output. See Daniel Price's web page for a good overview of how he put one together.

- 1 LCD (I would prefer the 2x40 display, however, I see that some additional programming may be required so I will opt for the 2x20 instead.)

I haven't gotten to this stage yet, but I would suggest that you get the size screen you like. The programming, if there is any, would not be hard. It's just a matter of changing some preset paramaters, the documentation is extensive. It's very easy. You should get the LCD you want because you will wish you had later.

- 1 eeprom 24LC512 chip for the "bankstick."

Might as well order 8 and save on shipping later down the road. You might want these in the future after your box is complete and you start learning how to build your own patches. Also, never hurts to have spares in case you fry one or break a pin. These are available in Smash's shop.

- ribbon cables (don't know exactly how many yet)

I purchased one meter of 10-pin cable and one meter of 16-pin cable from Smash's shop. Plenty for what you need to do.

- 1 male and 1 female dsub connector for the bankstick.

- some perf boards.

Correct.

Don't forget to order the following from SmashTV's shop while you are at it:

For Core, SID and OPSU:

10 pin Female IDC Connector (Smash 33) - you'll need at least six of these to connect SID 1 to Core 1 and SID1 to SID2 also for SID 3 to Core2 and SID 3 to SID 4. I ordered extras.

16 pin Female IDC Connector (Smash 32)- at least one for the LCD connection to the Core. As before, I would order extras.

SIL Pin Headers/DIL Pin Headers (Smash 3 & 24)- included in parts kits, but I order extras, they come in handy. Especially for the Optimized PSU connections.

For Control Surface Step A:

Rotary Encoder (Smash 17)

Pack of LED's (Smash whatever LED flavor you like)

And order these parts from Mouser, DigiKey or whatever electronics store you like. I used Mouser, so here's my parts list:

Audio Out Jacks. I used 1/4" switched, panel mount. You may want a different flavor (RCA, 1/8", etc..). Mouser 550-10021

Switches for operating the menu of your midibox. I used Mouser 688-SKHHDT. Pay close attention to the size of your LCD screen versus how many switches you'll need. Longer screen, more switches, easier menu navigation.

[frailn]

Quote

- 1 LCD (I would prefer the 2x40 display, however, I see that some additional programming may be required so I will opt for the 2x20 instead.)

I haven't gotten to this stage yet, but I would suggest that you get the size screen you like. The programming, if there is any, would not be hard. It's just a matter of changing some preset paramaters, the documentation is extensive. It's very easy. You should get the LCD you want because you will wish you had later.

I should clarify this. I managed to get one core and one SID module running with a 2x40 LCD without having to change any programming parameters and no issues. I have not yet hooked up the Step A control surface, so I haven't been through all the menus yet.

[XTheWoodX]

The first step is to get the bootloader into the core. If you buy your PIC chips from SmashTV, this will be done already. If not, you'll need some kind of PIC programmer.

Getting everything else in the core requires only MIOS studio and some kind of MIDI interface for your PC or Mac.

It's not too hard at all. Really quite simple!

You'll see.

Have Fun,

LyleHaze

Dear LyleHaze,

Thanks for the confidence builder.  ;)  I am quite eager to build my unit and it helps to be reassured of its simplicity. 

I will certainly order the PIC with the pre-installed boot loader.  This is going to be interesting!

Best wishes,

XTheWoodX.

[XTheWoodX]

Dear Frailn,

I will order exactly the parts you mentioned.  Now, you included a tidbit of information for the Step A Control Surface; if i am not mistaken, Swindus' machine appears to be a Step B Control Surface.  Will that tidbit about the rotary encoder and switches still apply to the Step B CS?  I believe that I need 5 knobs in addition to the Step A supply of encoder/switches as well; please correct me if I am wrong.

As always...

Best regards,

XTheWoodX.

p.s, please keep me posted on your progress with the 2x40 LCD screen.  By the way, did you purchase it from Mouser as well?  If you had a pleasant experience with their products/service, I would prefer to go with them (or any vendor that you trust, for that matter.)

[XTheWoodX]

p.s.s, I found this bit of information on http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/mios_pic18f4685

"PIC18F4685 and PIC18F4682 are not 100% binary compatible to PIC18F452. RAM from 0×60-0x7f is not directly accessible. BANKED accesses have to be used instead."

Will I run into any trouble using PIC18F4685?

[/tilted/]

The SID app Version 2.0 onward was written for the PIC18F4685.

So no, there will be no trouble.

[XTheWoodX]

Dear /tilted/,

Thank you.  That cleared up a bit of confusion.

Best regards,

XTheWoodX.

[frailn]

please keep me posted on your progress with the 2x40 LCD screen.  By the way, did you purchase it from Mouser as well?  If you had a pleasant experience with their products/service, I would prefer to go with them (or any vendor that you trust, for that matter.)

I'll keep you  updated on the progress. I'm building the Step A control surface, not step B, however, if programming is required, I'll let you know my experiences.

Mouser is good to work with - and shipping is fast. But, the shipping is a bit expensive. That is why I suggest that you buy extras of anything you order, just in case you miscalculate your needs or you break or lose a part.

And, when you order from SmashTV's shop, don't make the mistake I made - I failed to notice that PCB's are included in the parts kits and I ordered extra PCB's I didn't need. I'll end up using them in the future, so no big deal.

[frailn]

Hey, I just realized if you are going with Step B surface and multiple SIDS, you will need a DOUT board for the LED's.

[/tilted/]

There's a wiki entry on exactly this subject.

(It's a common question for newcomers...)

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/introduction_to_ucapps.de

[XTheWoodX]

Dear Frailn,

Thanks for the tip on the DOUT board.  After reading these pages so many times, I did not realize that I left out one major component!  I am printing out all of the posts on this thread as well as all of the schematics.  In the event that my experiences with Step B help you or anyone on this forum, I will post periodic "progress reports."  Remember: if I may be of service to you, please let me know.  That also applies to everyone on this forum.  I am very grateful for everyone's assistance.

Today, I received my first C64.  Two lone 6581 chips are on their way from Germany and I am looking for the fourth now on ebay.  Friday, I will order everything else from Mouser and SmashTV. 

By the way, the extra PCB's were a good idea.  Room for error on projects like these is quite minimal. ;)  I will buy extra parts as well.

Best regards,

XTheWoodX.

p.s, @/tilted/...

I am much obliged.  Like I mentioned to Frailn, after reading so many pages of information and technical details, I forgot that major detail.  :)