MIDIBox SID & Cubase SX

[charlie_says]

(originally incorrectly posted to the Midification forum)

I've been trying to work out how to control various aspects of the MBSid thru Cubase, ideally things like the LFO rate and so on...

But, I just can't do it, work it out, see how to make it happen (MIDI CC values are set, I have the table somewhere, but I can't get cubase to spit them out.) I have been trying this on & off for about 6 months, each attempt ending in frustration.

A lot of posts seem to hint that it's possible, or that people have done similar things, but, there's not enough detail (if any) to follow.

There was a guy making a control surface (saschazone.de) but he seems to have stopped updating his site, and I'm guessing by extension, stopped working on the control surface.

If anyone could point me in the right direction over how to get more control over my MBSid, I would be very happy indeed!

Thanks,

Charlie

[m00dawg]

I haven't tried doing that sort of thing through Cubase SE (you might be able to do this sort of thing in yours, so your mileage may vary). The way I do it is program my controller keyboard (Axiom 49 in this case). Cubase stores the NRPN information when I record the on the MIID track I have assigned to the MB-SID. This works well, and I assume you can modify these parameters from Cubase as well.

This is, by the way, for MB-SID v2. MB-SID v1, which uses CC events should be easy to setup in Cubase. You can use this by adding an automation track for that CC event to the MIDI track (like what you would use to control volume and such).

Hope that helps! I'd send you screenshots but I'm at work at the moment and don't have Cubase with me.

On an aside, if you just want to setup the synth, you could use the new MidiBox SID editor. That thing is pretty hot!

[charlie_says]

Thanks for the reply!

Ok well the good news is, My MidiBoxSid is pretty old, actually version 1.73

And, I had a quick look at cubase, adding the automation track would seem to be the solution, although (obviously the generic options there aren't the things I want to automate) but I guess if I import or create the correct items for automation then I'll get to be able to use them.

If you could upload the image tho, that would be very, very helpful - just to make sure I'm on the right track.

Re the new editor, I actually had pretty a good play around with the JSynth editor (although I'm now a bit foggy about what I did or didn't manage to do - like I said this has been going on a while.) I will get the new editor going, altho I'm not sure how much it will help me with the 'live automated tweaking'...

[m00dawg]

If you're using 1.73 then you'll be using MIDI CC events. So when you add the automation track, there'll be the usual stuff (volume, pan, etc.). You just go to "More Options" or something along those lines and should be able to further configure that. I'll make an effort to send you screens when I get home though. I don't have the CC chart on hand for 1.73 so you may have to go tromp around ucapps.de to get that.

[TK.]

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,12774.0.html

[m00dawg]

Ah there it is! Thanks TK!

As for how to add CC events in Cubase, I couldn't figure out how to do it using an automation track (again my version is old) and, now that I think about it, I've always recording CC events from my synth / controller to the track and they show up on the main piano roll. That said, you can still manually add CC events.

What you do is draw out a section of track (using the pencil thing). Right click on that and go to MIDI->Open List Editor. Then, on the window that pops up, select the pencil and also select Controller from Insert drop-down. Here you can basically add CC events by length. It's sort of like the piano roll in a way. It's a bit more tedious but should get what you want. Be sure to fill in Data 1 and Data 2 as appropriate to what you want to do (that might be the tedious part).

As you have Cubase SX, you may be able to do this a better way.

[charlie_says]

Thanks very much for both your input.

M00dawg - I have had some success at recording cc events as you describe (altho not for the MBSid) so I can see that as a practical way forward.

But... I also am pretty sure I remember finding options to create your own, or edit (in which case I can use the list it control the items I want.)

I'm out all day today, but will give this a go tomorrow and let you know.

[m00dawg]

One thing you might consider if you don't (yet) have a control keyboard (on an aside, you can build a MidiBox 64 to help with this :), have you considered using another sequencing program? I used to use Renoise and it's a fantastic app (and also quite cheap). It has some very nice automation at least for VST instruments and I think for MIDI as well. You might look into it if you don't plan on getting a control keyboard anytime soon as it may help. it's also a throwback to trackers if you prefer that style of interface. The only things I don't like about it are that I don't know how to record synths into a track for mastering (it may be able to do this - I haven't tried); and it can't function as a VST slave of sorts. That means it basically replaces Cubase for the most part. Still, it's a great program if you're looking for something different.

[stryd_one]

Cubase has never been too great for MIDI, I tried it out from time to time but never adopted it full time because of that, so I can't tell you how to do it... I just know you can/could do NRPN curves just as it does CCs... I know it did in previous versions anyway... Logic used to have an environment back then too, so take this w/ a grain of salt .

[charlie_says]

Ok -- further results or lack of...

It may be my version of cubase is too old, as it seems screen shots of automation layers can the CC specified, but I've still not had much success at controlling that precisely or setting it up.

What I also tried was using my microkorg to play out thru the MBSid. This had some results - some of the knobs definitely altered the sounds although I couldn't work out exactly what was being altered.

Cubase could also definitely record this tweaking, and could play it back out to the MBSid, but I couldn't edit it, and I wasn't able to ascertain which CC was being changed.

So, all in all, not so good.

I think that really I'd just want control over what the expanded control surface has:

filter cutoff & res

osc controls

env controls

So looking a bit further into it, do I have to set this up in the CFG option?

If so, do I have to set it up for each patch?

[m00dawg]

The way I record knobs in Cubase is to put them in separate MIDI tracks and group them together (usually under the main MIDI note track). So I'll have a track for, say, Cutoff, another track for Resonance, etc. Sometimes I group them if it's something I prefer to tweak simultaneously. These are standard MIDI tracks though, not automation tracks. You can edit each of these though in the MIDI List editor just as before. In fact, you can record them all to one-track, but you'll likely have to filter the events or, otherwise, it becomes a pretty confusing mess.

In my case, I configure my Axiom to send the proper CC/NRPN commands, which Cubase simply records and then forwards to the SID. So, basically, I treat Cubase as stupid and don't let it do any interpretation of my knob events (some other MIDI sequencers can do some nice re-mapping - I've heard FruityLoops is especially good at this). Instead, I have a patch on my Axiom that is for the MB-SID, and one that is for my Virus. Not the best way of doing it, but it does work.

This is one of the beefs I have with my version of Cubase since this also makes using the keyboard for multiple synths at the same time limiting. I'm really hoping Cubase Essentials 4 remedies this, though I'm open to suggestion on this issue too.

Anyways I hope that helps :)

[charlie_says]

Yes, that does help.

Basically, it means sticking with a method that's a bit limited, but easy to control. I'm hoping that I can do without buying a new piece of kit for it, because, as far as I can tell once I've set up the tracks, I should be able to edit them by hand...

Won't be able to get on to it for the next couple of weeks unfortunately, but will drop a line back when I've tried again...

Charlie

[stryd_one]

It may be my version of cubase is too old

Sorry I think I was a bit misleading in that last post, I was trying to be too brief... Cubase has never been that great for MIDI, (the bit I missed was) on windows, compared to the others on windows...

But long ago it was MIDI only, so it did have these features since...well many many years ago. "Too old" would not be the problem, more likely "too new" ;)

[nILS]

Rumour has it someone's working on a mbSID VST.

[m00dawg]

That would indeed be pretty hot. I assume it'd be like the Virus TI stuff (VST that talks directly to the synth).

I noticed that, at least using the Min Control Surface, that the SID doesn't send out knob changes over MIDI. Can that be changed? If so, that would help alleviate this issue as well.

[stryd_one]

That would indeed be pretty hot.

Rumour has it that it is pretty damned hot indeed. Hypothetically if someone had seen screenshots they wold have been very impressed :)

[charlie_says]

re the VSTi - this would be fantastic... but I don't think it's happening any more.

The guy who was developing it just seems to have stopped.

It's a pity as it looked great...

You can have a look at www.saschazone.de for more info.

[charlie_says]

Also, I second m00dawg's line about the min control surface, which is what I have, not exporting the knob changes (if I had the full surface this probably wouldn't be an issue).

If TK could confirm whether it's possible to get those knob changes sending out thru MIDI this could provide me with the shortest solution.

[nILS]

re the VSTi - this would be fantastic... but I don't think it's happening any more.

Rumor has it that someone else is working on one and it's coming along nicely ;-)

[Flexinoodle]

Bloody rumours

Your talkin shite, Shite i tells ya hehehehehehe

Flex