Building my first Midibox Sid

[afterclap]

Hey!

I got a hold of 2 new old stock SID's (6581) some time ago, and been looking to build myself a nice synth for some time. I finally have decided to take care of this now. I read and read about the setups and parts but still haven't got my head straight on what I should order.

I apologize if this is one of those "not again" threads.

I assume I want a stereo setup since i have two identical chips. What I wonder is what type of control surface I should aim to build. I must have the ability to tweak some envelopes and cutoff, and stuff like that.

How would I best go about to build a more extended minimal surface. And what would be recommended with only 2 SID's?

I think I'm a bit confused by all things I read back and forth, I really would like if someone could suggest a setup for me that makes sense. Or at least help me figure one out that suits me.

Also I think I will be ordering from Avi Showtech, I don't have a burner so I'm currecntly looking on the preburned kits. I have used my Polysix for too long now and new some new hardware.

If you would be so kind, show me the path to enlightenment.

[sakodak]

I'm new at this too, so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

For two sids you need two SID modules and one core module.  That's it.  You can control two SID modules per core and since you only have two SIDs, that's all you need.

As far as a control surface goes, I don't know how you can get more clear than this:

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual_fp.html

Have you seen that?  If so, do you have any specific questions on any of that or need for clarification?

[afterclap]

Yeah, I figured the same: 1 core and 2 sid modules

I missed that page totally! haha, must have been very tired or i have forgotten about it.

Anyways, can I just pick what I feel I need to have on the control surface? As long as I got the stuff for it I  mean.

[sakodak]

I'll be much better at this when I actually start building, but my understanding is that: yes, you can pick and choose what you want on your control surface.  You just connect the encoders and buttons to the correct pins on a DIN module and you're good to go.

[Flexinoodle]

If you have the extra money i would suggest you consider the MB6582 board or kits too

You can use that with just two SIDs but it also give you the option to upgrade to more SIDs later as and when you see fit ;)

Anyway just wanted to make sure you knew that option is open to you aswell

Cheers

[afterclap]

Oh, I saw a picture of one before, looked really nice, what's the main difference?

I saw they had some kits of that at the Avishowtech-shop as well. Hmm. More things to consider, hehe.

I'm not aiming at ordering all at once tho. I just want to get started with the essentials and go from there, if that would make sense.

[sakodak]

Oh, I saw a picture of one before, looked really nice, what's the main difference?

The mb-6582 is basically all the modules you'd need for an 8 SID MB SID (beautifully) reworked onto a single PCB instead of spread out amongst a bunch of separate modules.

You can use all of it for 8 SIDs, or just part of it for one or two SIDs.  It's pretty convenient.

There's also a control surface board that serves the same purpose -- it's one board to conveniently mount all of the parts of a control surface.

Much like the base PCB you can use all of the sections or just the parts of it you want.  The drawback is that you're stuck with the layout that Wilba came up with for the controls.  It may or may not work for you.  But you don't have to use it, you can hook up the controls however you want to the base PCB.

[afterclap]

Thanks! I might wait a month and order the MB 6582 kit instead. There's no issues with the new pic and the 6581 chips right?

And when you say all aprts instead of different modules do you mean i don't have to order any DIN, SID modules on top of that? All parts inlcuded for a building seesion as well?

so basically if i get you right, all i have to order besides this is parts for the control surface, knobs, PSU, and case?

(btw, this was my first thread and after reading this and others i really like this community. pure DIY spirit with help from friends, hehe. thanks to all of you!)

[sakodak]

There's no issues with the new pic and the 6581 chips right?

No.  There are some build differences, and you need to pay close attention to the voltages so you don't blow up your SIDs, but mostly the same parts work.  If you follow the build guide Wilba instructs you to make allowances (like using headers) for changing out SID types later.

And when you say all aprts instead of different modules do you mean i don't have to order any DIN, SID modules on top of that? All parts inlcuded for a building seesion as well?

Right.  If you buy the mb-6582 base PCB and the base PCB parts kit, you have everything you need to do a base midibox sid (except for a power supply.)  Of course, this is with no control options.

so basically if i get you right, all i have to order besides this is parts for the control surface, knobs, PSU, and case?

Right.  You'll need an LCD, LEDs, some diodes, rotary encoders, and switches (and probably some things I'm forgetting.)  Unfortunately there's no control surface parts kit yet.  You could also order SIDs from Wilba if you wanted to fill out the other 6 SID modules on the base PCB.

You could also decide to not use the control surface PCB and roll your own.  Lots of people have decided to do just that.

See this post (particularly the first picture):

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,12413.msg108374.html#msg108374

(btw, this was my first thread and after reading this and others i really like this community. pure DIY spirit with help from friends, hehe. thanks to all of you!)

Don't thank me yet -- I'm new too and I could be feeding you a line of shit for all both of us know. :)

[afterclap]

thanks, man. you reall yhelped clear things up. I'm rather interested in building the MB 6582, it looks reeally nice with the controlsurface as well, so i'm thinking maybe go with that for my first build actually. I think my biggest problem would be getting a good panel, i have NO idea where i can get one at a fair price, and i live in sweden.

[rosch]

I think my biggest problem would be getting a good panel, i have NO idea where i can get one at a fair price

Doug Wellington is doing great 6582 panels, i don't know if the bulk order's running atm. here's the link to his dokuwiki page where you can join the list:

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dougwellington_mb6582_panels

edit: here's the forum thread you can follow:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,11073.0.html

[chimchim]

I would suggest just getting the stereo SID option going and controlling through MIDI.  You can worry about the control surface and front panel much later.  The big decision you have to make now is whether to go with the modular (1 core and 2 sid modules) versus getting the MB-6582 base PCB kit. 

I think the module approach would be best suited to you if you are on a budget and don't plan on ever adding more SID's. 

Wiring the modules together can be tricky so the MB-6582 base would eliminate that and make it extremely easy to expand in the future.

[rosch]

that's how i'm doing it too, at the moment i can just afford the minimal one (1st try mono). but i definitely will have a 6582 too... so now i'm having my 1st experiences with MIDIbox hardware and there'll be a lot to learn anyway... and a lot of projects, too!

[jooks]

I haven´t found a good place in sweden for panels either so I added an order for Dougs panels which will likely be cheap and great. Otherwise you could always order at http://www.schaeffer-apparatebau.de/ Not exactly cheap but seems really great quality!

I´m a complete noob at this but has read ALOT last months and ordered parts for a MB6582 and one mono 6581 with CS stepA. I used to own a sidstation and loved it and these babies seems even much better!! + I really like the DIY (thanks TK :) and Wilba :))

It actually seems easier to build a MB6582 if you never done these kind of things before but I will practice my soldering  and electronic skils with the modules first (have soldered a 3 ch mixer and a atari punk attack to practice so far..)

Great to see other swedes here also! Vi kanske hörs afterclap ;)

[strophlex]

Kind of off topic, but I am swedish (Örebro) too. Might be good to know if making some combined order in the future...

[afterclap]

I think maybe the modular version could suit me better even though the MB6582 would be really nice to have, although I think I want to finish a stereo config first as a part of expanding my synth collection, so i'm still deciding which i should do, but maybe the modular is better, although i really want to have some real time controllers. of course maybe expanding the MB later would be an option as well.

Btw, a thought I had, would it be possible to build the control surface as an external part, not directly connected to the core and sid modules? Like a two piece MB Sid, maybe could make a secure wire that connects them and makes it controllable?

just a thought, reflections?

I'm considering later on to buy a Bitstream 3X, maybe I could use that to control the MB sid? Until I decide how to build my control surface.

[rosch]

i don't know exactly, but i'd think you'd have to put the DINX board into a separate case with the buttons & encoders. that would require  a cable with 5 flexible wires to the core module. but there are some important things to be considered:

a) the connections must be very safe and stable in order to not injure any of the connected modules by accident.

b) it's a maximum of only 5V to be carried twice (!) through a thin cable therefore it couldn't be very long distance.

but that's just one electrical point of view, not knowing about the special issues of a uC circuit in detail.

another's the design: you can build it up very flat if you're using the original C64 PSU. then you'd have only thin pcbs inside that case. take a look at Wilba's design, it's very flat and that's the big 4 pic + 8 sid solution. with only 2 sid, 1 core, 1 dinx and maybe a dout, all mounted behind the control surface (pcb), good insulation against each other and the case you should be able to get a very light weight synth.

but that's only my first thought about it, i have no experience... (newbie myself)

[afterclap]

hmm, maybe if i could make a connection with a safety (like the xbox controller, if you know what i mean) that if stretched to much would disconnect, the thought would be that you wouldn't have to always use the controll surface if you don't want, it would be like a epxansion you could connect and disconnect.

but on the voltage note, i would then have it very small in lenght, just so you can put it on top of the core. If it would be possible to have about a maximum of 30 cm of lenght on the cable connecting the control and the core without any issues then it maybe would be a nice diferent desing on the MB sid.

Also then I would build the core and sid first and then build a separate control surface, and of course keep in mind that i would like to have the control on top of the core when building the core.

still wondering if i should get parts for the MB6582 or just a minimal 2 sid config tho,  but it's nice to discuss possibilities with you guys, since i'm a newbie as well. And I won't order 'til the end of this month so I have some time considering my choices. What draws me to the MB6582 is hte possibility to expand the amount of sid chips as well as it's compiled with the necessary modules on one pcb.

[Flexinoodle]

Btw, a thought I had, would it be possible to build the control surface as an external part, not directly connected to the core and sid modules? Like a two piece MB Sid, maybe could make a secure wire that connects them and makes it controllable?

just a thought, reflections?

I'm considering later on to buy a Bitstream 3X, maybe I could use that to control the MB sid? Until I decide how to build my control surface.

Make a really simple SID and then make a controller that just controls it via MIDI

Dead simple dead safe

Its a little extra cost but does give you the two part design you where after and also the controller could be used for other duties much like a bitstream

Flex

[stryd_one]

There has been much talk of the physically separate CS in the past, do a search for heaps of good info.

[afterclap]

Thanks, control via midi sounds a bit simpler for a first project, i agree. I bet there won't be much trouble with the CC's doin' this either?

Then now i'm leaning more toward building a standard small config stereo MB Sid.

I want to start easy and from the base, and then later i will go on building the MB6582 i think.

big kisses for all of you.