strophlex Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Hi everybody!I have allmost completed my MB6582. Everything seems to work except for two things. I am not 100% sure they are errors, but I think at least the first one is.1) Some of the encoders come and go spontaniously. Most of the time all of them work, but all of sudden one, two or three my go dead and not show any respons on the LCD. Are there modes were some of the are ignored?2) I tried to upload the vintage presets syx file via midi-ox. When doing so the LCD and mod matrix showed response so I am sure there was communication with the pc but after completed transfer I still just have the one lead patch. Do I have to do something in the menues to gain access to the soundbank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futureman Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 I had a few weird things when I got mine going, but it was all because I didn't have a face for it, and didn't remember what each knob was..A few of the knobs (Depending on the page) do not show up on the screen when changed, as do a few of the buttons.. I assume this is what you are talking about?RegardsMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted April 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 I had a few weird things when I got mine going, but it was all because I didn't have a face for it, and didn't remember what each knob was..A few of the knobs (Depending on the page) do not show up on the screen when changed, as do a few of the buttons.. I assume this is what you are talking about?RegardsMikeIt might be. I have the panel on, but I didn't go through the manual yet, so I basicly have no idea what I've been doing. I just pressed and twitched everything to see that there was action. I will go through the manual and then I will have a better idea if there is something wrong or not.Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted April 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 It might be. I have the panel on, but I didn't go through the manual yet, so I basicly have no idea what I've been doing. I just pressed and twitched everything to see that there was action. I will go through the manual and then I will have a better idea if there is something wrong or not.Thanks.I checked this a bit more and there is deffenetly something wrong. Some encoders come and go. There seems to be connection all the way from encoder to shift register even when the encoder is dead. I had drop outs of encoders connected to different shift registers. They come and go during the same session and when I power off and on, they are still gone... It seems really strange to me. If it was bad solder joints at the ribbon cables, I think it would affect fewer encoders... Now there is at least half of them behaving strange but waveform attack and lfo rate are worst.anybody have any idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lief138 Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Im not sure if this will help but I had a problem that was very like this. My problem was that certain encoders only went up and not down. ie I could twist it either way but it would only register the increasing values. I tracked this issue down by first investigating the input matrix and hunting down which (registers?) controlled each of my funcky encoders. It was real easy from that point as I found that one was responsable for all the encoders that were acting up. From there is was a simple matter to find my poor soldering spot and fix it.At least this is what I remember... I never really know whats going on... good luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Im not sure if this will help but I had a problem that was very like this. My problem was that certain encoders only went up and not down. ie I could twist it either way but it would only register the increasing values. I tracked this issue down by first investigating the input matrix and hunting down which (registers?) controlled each of my funcky encoders. It was real easy from that point as I found that one was responsable for all the encoders that were acting up. From there is was a simple matter to find my poor soldering spot and fix it.At least this is what I remember... I never really know whats going on... good luck...Thanks for the help, but my faulty encoders are spread out on several shift registers. Is probobly a good idea to have a look at the soldering of the shift registers though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lief138 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 One more thing. I seem to remember that I also had an issue with the connection between the base and cs board. Have you double checked all those points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 One more thing. I seem to remember that I also had an issue with the connection between the base and cs board. Have you double checked all those points?I double checked that.Now I found some traces though! The voltage on the non gounded pins of the encoder should be 5V when not closed, right? I meassured 0.44V on a failing encoder. I followed the signal path all the way to the shift register, still 0.44V. Then I was interupted and had to quit trouble shooting. Will hopefully continue today. Also I found out that the encoders connected via pad 00 and 01 of JD1-JD4 are most prone to fail followed by the ones connected via 02 and 03... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I would like you to check the resistor networks are the right ones, and are inserted the correct way (dot on resistor network should be in square pad).If you say "I use SmashTV's base PCB parts kit" then they are the right ones, but still check they are in the correct way.This kind of intermittent problem suggests either shorts between pads (or breaks) on those tracks/wires between the shift registers and the encoders, or maybe even some kind of problem with the ground connections to those encoders... i.e. the encoders are connected by ground tracks and are the only things using ground on the control surface, switches and LEDs do not (they are all in the switch/LED matrix) therefore an intermittent ground on some encoders will make them stop working.This may be irrelevant, but... which encoders are you using? Make/part number/datasheet etc. Is there any chance the encoder "case" is shorting pads on the PCB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I would like you to check the resistor networks are the right ones, and are inserted the correct way (dot on resistor network should be in square pad).If you say "I use SmashTV's base PCB parts kit" then they are the right ones, but still check they are in the correct way.I have sourced all the component myself. They might be no good. Good point, will check it out. There should be 10k between the marked pin and the other ones respecively, right?This kind of intermittent problem suggests either shorts between pads (or breaks) on those tracks/wires between the shift registers and the encoders, or maybe even some kind of problem with the ground connections to those encoders... i.e. the encoders are connected by ground tracks and are the only things using ground on the control surface, switches and LEDs do not (they are all in the switch/LED matrix) therefore an intermittent ground on some encoders will make them stop working.I've been looking for this, and I think it seems right from shift register to encoder... Anyway I will check it out again if the resistor networks seem fine.This may be irrelevant, but... which encoders are you using? Make/part number/datasheet etc. Is there any chance the encoder "case" is shorting pads on the PCB?I am using the ones from Voti. Do you know if anybody actually used them in a build before?Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I have sourced all the component myself. They might be no good. Good point, will check it out. There should be 10k between the marked pin and the other ones respecively, right?Yes.I am using the ones from Voti. Do you know if anybody actually used them in a build before?They should be fine, they have been used on other MIDIbox projects for a long time (including my original MB-6582 "prototype"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I found and corrected the problem. Kind of embarrassing... I had turned every second resistor network the wrong way. Had to cut them to pieces and desolder them one pin at a time. That should teach me to be vey careful with non socketed multi leaded components. Good thing I had some replacements in my wilba-seqencer parts box. Now the encoders work fine! Thanks to you who helped me out.The sceond issue. After uploading a .syx file of presets, all I should do is to twist the menu encoder to brows through the presets, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 That would explain intermittent behaviour :) one encoder position would affect the state of pins of other encoders :)The sceond issue. After uploading a .syx file of presets, all I should do is to twist the menu encoder to brows through the presets, right?Yes. If this is not happening, perhaps the .syx file is not being received, or the bankstick is not working, although you can test the bankstick separately by storing patches in each bank (A-G) and storing the ensemble parameters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 The banksticks seem to work fine and I manage to upload the syx file from sysex librarian. When I go to preset 65 in bank A it says no bankstick so I guess I have swaped the ensamble bankstick with bank A. Will check when I have time.When I save a patch I can sometimes enter text with the encoder but sometimes i can just choose between some symbols and numbers with inverted pixels (the pixels of the number itself are not active but the pixels surounding it are lit forming a square). Is this a feature I don't understand or is it some kind of error? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 I removed the one 256 bankstick and that resulted in that I couldnt save more than one ensamble so it was obviously placed in the right socket. There must be something strange about this. When I try to save a patch in >64 slot of the first bankstick it says "not possible". It seems it cannot access the higher 64 slots. Maybe this is related to the other error? Maybe one of the pins of the memmory chip is badly soldered...I realize this keeps my post count up, but if someone recognizes this error, I'd be glad to do the right thig at once... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 You need 24LC512 for storing 128 patches (in the first 7 sockets), the 8th is used for ensembles and can be 24LC512 or 24LC256.You probably have a 24LC256 in the bankstick sockets used for patches.The symbols/numbers are custom characters used elsewhere in the application, like on the main screen showing which SIDs are playing (inverted number). It's no error, more like the range of character codes is not restricted (it's a feature!). It's probably not a good idea to use the special characters because they change dynamically depending on what screen is being displayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted May 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 But I can select nothing but these special characters. I cycle through like 10-15 of them and that's all I can select. This happens some times. I haven't been experimenting enough to find a pattern on when this happens. Regardning the bankstick chips, I have seven 24LC512 and one 24LC256. To make sure the single 24LC256 was inserted in the right socket I removed it and concluded that I could not save more than one ensamble any more. I think that would indicate that the 24LC256 chip is in the ensambles socket and that all patch sockets are stuffed with 24LC512:s. Thanks for taking your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted May 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 I figured it out. The first 24LC512 was faulty. It works like a 24LC256 except it has 24LC512 printed on it. I replaced it and now it works fine. The other issue seems to be when I start off from an <empty> patch. If I initialize it to the "Lead patch" before tweaking my own patch there seems to be no problem editing patch name when saving it.Here are some pictures. No supprises, just a very nice synth!Thank you again Wilba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Congratulations! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fussylizard Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Nice! The red theme reminds me of an Access Virus.Did you use .100 spacing cable to connect the PCBs? If so, where did you get it? I couldn't find it at Mouser (it's there somewhere I'm sure) so I just used standard IDC cable.Thx again re: the 8-pin connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Did you use .100 spacing cable to connect the PCBs? If so, where did you get it? I couldn't find it at Mouser (it's there somewhere I'm sure) so I just used standard IDC cable.I used .100 spacign cable. I got it from Farnell: http://uk.farnell.com/amphenol-spectra-strip/135-2607-312/ribbon-cable-3c-12-core-per-m/dp/1301034?_requestid=426716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 The first 24LC512 was faulty. It works like a 24LC256 except it has 24LC512 printed on it. Sounds like a common effect in counterfeit chips. Microchip might like it if you sent them a quick email to let them know...Box looks yum! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Nice! The red theme reminds me of an Access Virus.Did you use .100 spacing cable to connect the PCBs? If so, where did you get it? I couldn't find it at Mouser (it's there somewhere I'm sure) so I just used standard IDC cable.Thx again re: the 8-pin connectors.SmashTV has them also, might come in handy if you need to buy some other stuff:http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/buy.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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