TK.

Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

353 posts in this topic

Also, I've read previous mention of noise making it's way into audio through using motorized pots. If I'm using this for a fuzz pedal, I'm assuming I should keep the power and ground from this circuit completely isolated from the fuzz pedal? Any other tips?

 

hello

I find (in my particular situation) that motor EMI is a problem, especially when running PWM and H-bridge system close to hi gain analog audio, even with fully separate supply rail and ground, layout is important, also mechanical integration and room between both elecronic.

The "problem" is that there is one place you can do noting, it's the pot or fader himself, where audio track, servo track and motor share one mechanical system you can't change

After 6 month building a protoype, I can tell the ALPS fader don't do the job in this situation. I think it's mostly due to the motor position.

Rotary motor pot is different, I can't say, you have to try.

In other hand, an automated fuzz pedal with motor brush noise in an unique FX :smile:

Zam

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Thanks for taking the time to send a response. In my situation, I'm not editing audio real time. I'll simply be quickly moving them to a position and they'll be staying there. Are you having EMI problems even when the fader is stationary? Or does it occur with the motor is moving?

 

I think the fuzz factory may take the motor brush noise while moving quite well as an addition to the effect :thumbsup:

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Thanks for taking the time to send a response. In my situation, I'm not editing audio real time. I'll simply be quickly moving them to a position and they'll be staying there. Are you having EMI problems even when the fader is stationary? Or does it occur with the motor is moving?

 

I think the fuzz factory may take the motor brush noise while moving quite well as an addition to the effect :thumbsup:

 

If your goal is to use motor just for "recall" purpose it's fine.

Motor and H bridge make noise when swiching and rotating

In another other hand, building a system like this (assuming less than 5 pot pedal FX) just for recall/snapshoot purpose is quite huge, an hand writing recall sheet take 10 sec...

Interest come with the automation.

 

Another idea is to have double track pot (audio + servo) without motor, but with a snapshoot system /preset recall with comparator from stored and actual value with just one led per pot that light up when both value are matched, you just manually move the pot until the stored value match.

This implies a smaller system without all that stuff for motor, other pple will confirm but I think it's fine to do this with midibox

Zam

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Well, there are a few reasons. It's a 7 potentiometer pedal with a switch I want to control with a relay. I have a midi processor that sends batch CCs to pedals. The midi processor has presets that are called up from a PM sent from my foot controller. This enables me to automate almost everything in my rig. I use it for my Moog Moogerfooger pedals which don't have a built in preset system.

Also, I want the pedal to work regardless of the digital control. I am concerned that adding more function to a pedal simply adds more things that can go wrong on the road. I want to be able to manually adjust the pedal even if the control circuit is not working.

There will also be times when I'll need to start from a certain setting and adjust the knobs manually. I don't want it to jump from the digital setting to wherever the knob happens to be.

Hopefully this makes more sense now. I didn't state my full intentions in my previous posts.

Edited by facon

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Hello,

 

I'm a newbie here and in this whole MIDIbox-Project. For a few weeks i decided to start built a MF-NG Motorfaderboard, because i like soldering and i wanted to increase my fun with Cubase. 

 

I think i did solder everything right, i uploaded the .hex on the pic like described, and MIOS Studio recognizes the board, but unfortunately when i move the fader, nothing happens... so i have a question: do i need every 8 fader connected to get it worked? for now i just bought one, because its a test... 

i didn't make voltage checks, because i'm not sure what kind of value i should mesure, but otherwise i think that i did everything well, also the wiring stuff... 

 

if someone have an idea, you're welcome!

 

best regards

 

antoine

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after re-checking all the soldering, it works now :) 

 

but just with mios studio. 

 

do anyone have experience with this board and cubase?

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Hello

I'm not familiar with cubase, but you should have a setup somewhere for control surface, be sure to use same protocol at both side.

best

Zam

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Hey Zam,

 

Thank you! After a lot of trial and error, i find out that the best is to use Motormix. But still, there are a few problems: i can't choose which channel i want to assign to the fader, the first fader is always the first fader in Cubase. 

Edited by A.S.

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Hi ZAM!

How far are you with your variable Voltage driver?

I am very interested in that solution, because I have the same problems regarding noise.

Have an old neumann mixing desk that needs quiet, flying faders :-)

What about the MC33030 ? Could that be an replacement for the L293D ?

Thanks,

Koerschgen

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Hi Koerschgen

The motor driver work well hooked to Ain and Aout

I redraw for about 10 time the PCB the last 6 month...but I'm very close.

After lot of spring crash test (including a full album mixing with one fader loaded at the vox channel) I use most of my summer time to improve lot of little things.

I still have mechanical integrations issue, which will be fixed soon with another frontpanel order. And the design now include 17 pcb for 8 fader pack, 8 for button/led, 8 for motor driver/touch sensor, and one with 64Din, 64Dout, 8Ain, 8Aout, also 5/+15/-15V distribution for the whole pack.

Now I HAVE to order the pcb and stop to worries if i made mistake, I will rework the pcb if needed.

What neumann model you have, with danner casette? any idea of room available for extra PCB in the frame?

Zam

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Hi Zam,

that is great news and great work!

Would be very nice to see some pics :-)

Yes, its a Neumann with Danner Kassettes. 

There is a few places where I can put some extra PCBs in, depends on the max cable length.

Sounds like you also implemented some auto-buttons and status-leds...

Is it still connected via HUI?

Is there any plan to sell those pcbs?

Best,

K

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Hi

there is some pics of the proto in another topic

the main PCB is 240x85 and designed with low profil connector to fit in 20mm height, have to be hooked to core or line receiver. and 3 rail PSU

Led button is 16x150 designed for 6 ormon square illuminated tact (B3W-9 series)

motor driver and touch detection, is 34x120

Of cours it's HUI protocol

About selling I don't know, option still open (few ppl at groupDIY follow with interest too), but I'm not sure my project is compatible with the midibox philosophy for what I read until now.

-far from low cost idea of DIY here, estimation is in the 3k range for 8 fader pack...

-I think I will not have the same devotion as our beloved TK to help and support this system which is somehow in the "expert" side, so ppl realy need to know how

-producing a nice and detailed documentation will take me month.

Anyway everything still possible !!!

But first I have to validate the PCB and whole system, running one fader as I do now is not the same.

I think within one month I'll be able to order and fully populated the PCB (I'm 6 month late regarding my initial calendar...), but I'll have fund issue in this time range to order 8 fader and 8 front panel so...

Best

Zam

 

Edited by Zam

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I just have a look for A1 danner, it's 190x40, do you know if it's front panel or cassette size? The TKD motor fader alone need 154x18x50

Edited by Zam

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OK so i was looking at the specs of the L293D and I assume the noise issue with that has to do with the frequency of the PWM cycle is too low for the faders that pass real audio. I am looking to do something very close to what Zam has done but with a much tighter budget and less need for the led and buttons for mute etc. Is there a better alternative chip that would be a replacement in this board? .. I know Zam had more complicated solution/ circuit that I assume was based on an op amp type motor control. Or should I just keep asking Zam for his layout and pcb info :)

 

Eric

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2,54mm pinheader with 2 and 4 pin's.

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54 minutes ago, novski said:

2,54mm pinheader with 2 and 4 pin's.

Thank you!

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heys guys can I select MORE THAN 8 channels with this module? like banks ? if yes then how to select it? program it?

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On 26.12.2016 at 9:51 PM, y2k_kushaal said:

heys guys can I select MORE THAN 8 channels with this module? like banks ? if yes then how to select it? program it?

No -- MBHP_MF_NG is only intended as a "slave device", either for a DAW, or for MIDIbox NG (which allows you to define banks, allows to assign any kind of MIDI event - including SysEx, allows to store/restore snapshots, etc)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Hi Guys, 

Hope everyone is well! 

Just have some questions for you! 

I've build 2 MF modules, and I'm running them in Emulated Mackie Control mode to control a waves LV1 system. 

My first question is, how can I chain 2 MF module and use only one midi interface? Do you need to change the id of one of the module, if yes, I did not find the way to do it! 

Second question is. I'm bit struggling with the touch function. It seems like the touch sends midi on/off note that are one octave too low... First note on fist fader is G#6, it should be G#7 (in Mackie Control mode)

Last question, how the TouchSensor Sensivity parameter work? Is there a way to make it more reliable? (Hardware side, I have some fader that are working fine, and on of them that are triggering more than one fader) 

Except that, the module is working like a charm! 

Thanks guys!

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Hi,

2 hours ago, the86things said:

My first question is, how can I chain 2 MF module and use only one midi interface? Do you need to change the id of one of the module, if yes, I did not find the way to do it! 

yes, it makes sense to change the ID of the module.
This can be done with the "change_id" application which can be downloaded from http://www.ucapps.de/mios_download.html

Thereafter use the MBHP_MF_NG configuration tool in MIOS Studio to configure the MIDI merger. The first core in the chain has to be assigned to "MIDIbox Link Forwarding Point", and the second one to "MIDIbox Link Endpoint".

Once this has been done, you can chain the cores and address them individually by using the different device IDs.

2 hours ago, the86things said:

econd question is. I'm bit struggling with the touch function. It seems like the touch sends midi on/off note that are one octave too low... First note on fist fader is G#6, it should be G#7 (in Mackie Control mode)

According to the Logic Control documentation, 0x68..0x6f has to be sent, and this is what the application is doing.
MIOS Studio shows G#6, but some other MIDI monitors (or specs) might display G#7 for this number (it depends from which number the octaves are counted.

However, here a modified firmware which increments +12 to the number, but I guess that it won't help at your side: http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_mf_ng_v1_005_modified_ts.zip

2 hours ago, the86things said:

ast question, how the TouchSensor Sensivity parameter work? Is there a way to make it more reliable? (Hardware side, I have some fader that are working fine, and on of them that are triggering more than one fader) 

The core generates a pulse which charges the sensor. Than longer the pulse, then higher the sensitivity. Use the "touchsensor sensitivity" option in the MBHP_MF_NG application to adjust the value. 3 is usually a good choice, try 2 to decrease the sensitivity, maybe this helps. 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Hi Thorsten, 

Thanks so much for your quick reply, really appreciate!!

yes, it makes sense to change the ID of the module.
This can be done with the "change_id" application which can be downloaded from http://www.ucapps.de/mios_download.html

Thereafter use the MBHP_MF_NG configuration tool in MIOS Studio to configure the MIDI merger. The first core in the chain has to be assigned to "MIDIbox Link Forwarding Point", and the second one to "MIDIbox Link Endpoint".

Once this has been done, you can chain the cores and address them individually by using the different device IDs.

Cool, I've done that, but how I can manage to setup the midi parameter in the daw? The daw is seeing only one midi interface. Do I need to program a max msp patch in between with virtual midi port? 

According to the Logic Control documentation, 0x68..0x6f has to be sent, and this is what the application is doing.
MIOS Studio shows G#6, but some other MIDI monitors (or specs) might display G#7 for this number (it depends from which number the octaves are counted.

However, here a modified firmware which increments +12 to the number, but I guess that it won't help at your side: http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_mf_ng_v1_005_modified_ts.zip

Thanks, for the modified firmware, it still doesn't work, not sure why, I need to investigate more! 

The core generates a pulse which charges the sensor. Than longer the pulse, then higher the sensitivity. Use the "touchsensor sensitivity" option in the MBHP_MF_NG application to adjust the value. 3 is usually a good choice, try 2 to decrease the sensitivity, maybe this helps. 

OK, To stop the faders moving, I need to set the sensitivity to 25... Maybe I need to change the resistors for a much bigger value?

I've attached my faders data sheet, and my daw MC surface options. 

Thanks again for your reply! 

all the best, 

Ilia. 

 

Screen Shot 2017-08-06 at 18.37.47.png

profader datasheet.pdf

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Hi everybody,

I would like to know if it is possible to put a circuit like this between the bhp_mf_module and the Motorfader?

My motors create a very loud Pam-noise, doesn't matter wich setting I use...

I think this will go away with a DC-Voltage-control...?! (Like SSL Motorfader)

Thanks!

Screen Shot 2017-09-29 at 22.50.30.png

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Hello,

Can I use this two pot with your panel, and I have two panel on one I need to use all two together

https://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/442094/Motorised-fader-----5-k---------02-W-----linear-----ALPS/?ref=home&rt=home&rb=1

 

https://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/442081/Motorised-fader-----10-k---------05-W-----linear-----ALPS/?ref=home&rt=home&rb=1

I need a correct answer because I would like to buy the pots 

Thanks and Regards:

Bela

 

 

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Please guys,

 

Help me because I need to order the pots!!!!!

 

Please, Regards:

Bela

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