Complete beginner wanting to build a Midibox SID

[SupahFly]

Hello everyone!

I've been lurking around for a while and now I have decided that I really really need to build myself a midibox sid :)

I would like to build a basic version to start off with - I guess that would be the minimal setup described in the hardware manual.

My first question is regarding the stereo setup - I don't understand if I need two sets of the minimal setup or if I can somehow fit the second SID onto the same board?

From what I've gathered I would need to order the following:

The Core8 Kit + PCB from http://mbhp.coinoptech.com/buy.html

This would be with the PIC18F4865 and a couple of midi jacks.

The SID Kit + PCB from the same site.

Would I be correct in assuming that this is what I need for the minimal setup? What does the PIC ID Headers mean?

In order to get this working I assume I need some kind of power supply (from the C64?) and of course a SID chip. Is there anything I am missing?

Thanks!

[SupahFly]

Ah I found the checklist at the bottom of the V2 walkthrough. I still don't understand what the PIC header stuff means.

So a stereo setup requires another SID kit from what I gather - is it possible to mix old revision SIDs with newer ones?

[m00dawg]

Welcome to the forum!

I don't understand what you mean by "PIC headers" ? You mean how to hook the SIDs up to the CORE in various combinations? If so, that is all outlined on ucapps.de. So the walkthrough you were reading should have links to how to do that which include diagrams and things.

As far as stereo, you can mix SIDs for a single stereo pair but it wouldn't make much sense, unless you were going for an intentionally odd sound. If you have different versions of SIDs, consider using them independently which would allow you to use different instruments at the same time (so one SID handles drums, the other the bassline, etc.).

As far as building, yes you're on the right track for a small setup. You might continue to look around on the forums though as there are some options that you might be interested in otherwise. TwinSID looks pretty nice and he's offering up most of his designs it would seem. I think the sammichSID ship has sailed but you could look the forums to see if some are available. I say this because designing your own control surface can be daunting if you are rather new to all this.

[SupahFly]

Thanks m00dawg!

I apologize for not being clear enough I was refering to the PIC ID header which is a field where I can provide an ID when I place my order - however I do not know what this means.

I'll have a look at twin SID - thanks for the tip. I agree that this is rather daunting but I feel confident that I can put something together as long as I can figure out which parts I need :)

The scariest bit is the power supply - I can't read schematics very well - is there a step by step tutorial that some kind soul has written?

[rosch]

regarding the pic ID that's just important if you combine several cores via CAN bus, i.e. for example if you like to use 2 stereo sid pairs. in that case you need 2 CORE modules of which each can control one sid pairs (true stereo).

so if you chain up to 4 cores then one is the main core that forwards messages to the second third and fourth core in the chain. this first core (if there are several) needs to have ID 0, and the others then 1,2,3.

smashTV does the PIC ID setup for you if you let him know which configuration you (are planning to) use. default is ID 0.

[m00dawg]

*oh* that. For a single CORE setup, you can just leave the PIC ID to 0 since the first core has an ID of 0 (second of 1, third of 2, etc.). You can always update the ID later, though I can't remember if you can do that with MIOS via MIDI or have to program the PIC directly.

As far as the PSU, a small setup can get away with just using a linear-regulated wall-wart like this. Depending on your SID model(s) and how you wire everything, you could go with a 9VDC linear regulated wall-wart too. Similarly, an AC wall-wart or power brick that supplies 9-14VAC should work (also depending on your SID model(s).

The reason you can do this is because the CORE and SID boards have their own power section which allow you to supply them with AC or DC. You do have to supply a little extra. You loose about .7 voltage from the bridge rectifier and typically the linear regulators need about 2VDC above what they regulate to work well. That's why a 12VDC power supply tends to work well, at least for 6582/8580 SIDs. For 6581 SIDs, you may need something a bit higher or will have to bypass the power section on that board and supply the chip with the regulated voltage from the wall-wart.

Point is, you can make it work easily with a single, simple, wall-wart and there are multiple ways to do it.

In a large setup, such as with a full control surface, 8 SIDs, etc. you will want something more robust most likely. The C64 PSU (or modern clones) can work well and there's some documentation on how to efficiently wire up individual SID modules with it. You can also buy multiple output high frequency switching or (expensive) linear PSUs. There's some really good information about these, as well as building your own PSU (not for the inexperienced or at least the careless!) on this forum in the Design Concepts and SID sections.

Since you're starting small, I wouldn't bother with those options for now, however. If you can get your hands on a C64 PSU, then you could use that. If not, I would just use a wall-wart.

[SupahFly]

thanks for your replys! I think I will want to go with the c64 PSU as I have one and most likely will want at least the minimal control surface.

I have some more questions :)

I would like to use a larger LCD screen - are there options for larger screens without better resolution (or using larger fonts). THe walkthrough states that larger screens work fine but that the main screen doesn't look all that good. I'm not fussed about more screen space, I just thought a larger screen would look cooler :)

Regarding the minimal control surface - I see that the sammichSID has all 6 buttons aligned under the LCD screen. I don't know their respective function but would it make sense to have buttons in 2 rows of 3 or does that make the UI unintuitive?

Now I'm just thinking out loud but has anyone incorporated any step sequencing into their machines? That would be awesome, particularly for drums :)

[m00dawg]

LCDs come in various shapes and sizes but as long as it's a character LCD with a parallel interface, you should be in good shape. There are ways to make graphical LCDs work, but I would avoid that for now. There is likely to be better options for those as the MIOS32 stuff matures and has enough power to drive them. I don't think they have jumbo LCDs (in terms of size, not number of characters), but have a look at CrystalFontz. Note that you need to get a parallel character LCD (like this - not the pin headers on the left) and not a serial LCD, like ones that work of USB and the like.

The buttons under the LCD for the sammichSID are to select and control parameters on the screen itself. The SammichISD has 5 actually,

which is normal for 2x20 and 4x20 displays. 2x16 has 4, 2x20 has up to 10. You don't likely want to put them on multiple rows because they are made to correspond to direct positions on the LCD as noted here. They are just about a must on any MBSID control surface because you can control any parameter using this (albeit with a bit more work than a full control surface) including those which wouldn't commonly be on a full control surface as a dedicated button (like the patch save function, for example).

The other buttons on the Sammich are special in that they have different functions from the standard MBSID firmware. I honestly forget what they do :) I know F1 plays the patch but I'm sure it, and the other buttons, have uses for if you are pressing SHIFT, etc. I would look at the sammichSID wiki page to find more about those. You may not need these necessarily or could use your own functions by changing the firmware (most of that is very very easy, but you do need the ability to compile PIC microcontroller code). If you want to keep it simple, stick with what's on ucapps.de for now.

[SupahFly]

thanks again for all your help! most of the parts ordered :)

[m00dawg]

Good luck!

On the topic of buttons, though you might not want to put them on multiple rows in a grid, you could stagger them so that they still line up to the proper place on the LCD. Might be useful if you are going to use very large buttons. If you want to keep it simple, I would recommend using the 6x6 tactile switches that can be seen on the ucapps MBSID control surface reference designs. They're cheap and easy to work with, although you can't really put caps on them. For an MBSID control surface, though, I think they work fairly well, especially since there's lots of buttons and things on the full blown control surface.

[SupahFly]

thanks m00dawg. I think I will just go for a simple small-button-layout similar to sammichSID. I startd a new thread about triggering notes from buttons which is what I would like to use larger buttons for. I'm thinking a 4x4 button grid similar to an mpc or maschine controllers which would allow me to play melodies on the same box - but I am getting ahead of myself as usual already planning for things I have absolutely no idea of how to implement :)

[m00dawg]

That sounds like a job for MB-SEQ :) In fact, I would check out the whole BLM sub-board since that is a large part of what those are used for. I don't think you can combine MBSEQ with MBSID on the same PIC but you could either just put them in the same box and connect them internally; or you could just get some ideas. The MBSID firmware should allow for being able to define buttons to play notes and things (I think).

[SupahFly]

Thorsten has some code for the keyboard bit which sounds like the easiest solution.

Regarding LCD I don't quite understand if it needs to follow a standard or not. Would this one work?

http://www.electrokit.se/download/JHD202C.pdf

I don't have a direct link to the LCD at the store but it is called

LCD 2x20 JHD202A STN blue/white LED

Controller: KS066 (HD77480 kompatibel)

[ilmenator]

Controller: KS066 (HD77480 kompatibel)

I assume that's a typo and should read HD44780 - if so, then it is compatible. See here for all the necessary information on LCDs on a MIDIbox.

[SupahFly]

thanks ilmenator, I don't think it's a typo - when I google it I get quite a few hits on HD77480 :(

edit: actually only like 1400 hits so maybe it is a typo - I'll email them and ask

Edited September 27, 2011 by SupahFly

[SupahFly]

It was indeed a typo :)

I have a question regarding mounting of buttons and screen. Connecting the screen doesn't look so bad http://www.ucapps.de/index.html?page=midibox_sid_manual_fp.html and I guess I just need to screw it to some surface and that will be that. The buttons for the minimal control surface however is more of an issue, what types of buttons are recommended? Can I buy pcb buttons and connect them via wiring to the pcb or do I need to have them physically on the pcs. SOrry for the n00b questions.

[ilmenator]

Any (momentary) button will do as long as you find a way to mount it. I.e. you either mount them to the front panel directly, and have some (loose) wires going to the shift registers, or you solder them to a PCB and then mount the PCB to the front panel. If you are not planning to have a front panel at all, you'll also end up using this latter variant. Most of the buttons you'll find (and also the tact switches) are PCB mount.

[SupahFly]

So I received my parts today from SmashTV - horrraay!

I ordered everything in Kits and it came nicely packaged with each kit in a different bag. I also managed to avoid customs which is awesome :)

Now I figured I would start building the Core module. The PCBs are all labelled so identifying the correct PCB was easy, thank god.

After that I immediately ran into trouble. Looking at the soldering guide I want to start with step 1, soldering the 4 bridges. The problem is that my PCB looks nothing like the screenshot in the guide so I don't know where to begin.

Everything on the pcb seems to be clearly marked but I don't have anything to go on as the "holes" don't match up. Is there a guide somewhere for my type of PCB or can someone guide me to where I should solder the bridges and resistor?

Also as a side note, how do I distinguish between the different types of resistors - they don't seem to be marked with numbers. Is it through the colour coded stripes?

I would be really grateful for any help with this.

Thanks

[m00dawg]

SmashTV has board diagrams and things that outline what headers do and things which you may find useful:

http://avishowtech.com/info.html

You will have to take both the above link and the Ucapps build guides and sort of smash them together. It's not terribly difficult, however. Most components only fit in one space and the directions are marked on the board.

Typically the order of things is from shortest items to tallest items.

[SupahFly]

Ah cheers m00dawg. So I take it I should follow this http://avishowtech.com/mbhp_coreR4d.html exactly to build the core module (and the rest of the modules) - and then go to ucapps for details on how to put them together? Or do I need to do the bridges soldering on top?

I'm really sorry for all these stupid questions, I'm just a complete and utter beginner. Regarding the soldering, I take it I only need to solder the resistors/bridges and just insert the rest into their sockets? Or do I need to solder all components in place?

What is the best approach to solder a resistor, push it in all the way on the pcb, cut the legs then solder or what approach should I take?

Thanks again

[m00dawg]

Yes follow the link you provided. You will not typically need to make any bridges for the boards purchased from SmashTV.

The bridges mentioned on ucapps are for the board design you can download from there which is typically for making (etching) your own boards. Those designs avoid having to create a two layer boards, which are more difficult, or at least cumbersome, to do when etching boards yourself.

[Astazou]

I found this link veeeeryyyyy useful when building a PIC core from Smash.

[SupahFly]

Wow thanks for the link what an incredibly useful guide! i am well on my way to finishing my first core module now :)

[SupahFly]

Hi! So I managed to finish my core module but I have a question, when it comes to the chip sockets and the pins which are used to connect to the module, do I have to solder every leg or is it enough if I solder everything in place with 2-3 solder points?

[ilmenator]

Every leg!