Troubleshooting midiphy SEQ v4+

[knochenfabrik]

17 hours ago, latigid on said:

Directly connected means no line transmit board? How long is the cable?

What happens when you unplug J8/9 from le mec_R?

Are any ribbon cables improperly assembled (shorts etc.)?

Can you exit this menu?

Do you notice strange DIN events with MB_NG loaded?

Yes, there is no line transmit board involved. Cable length is approx. 30 cm. When i wiggle the cable out of the J8/9 while running, the sequencer changes menus and stuff on the screen by itself - if i deattach the cable completely  i can use the sequencer just as normal. Which leads me to the next suggestion to check the cables which i will do now. Lesson learned: Debuging should be caried out before reassambling the whole unit

[knochenfabrik]

Found the issue - had the connector from J8/9 to the Expander in the wrong polarity on one side. Now the sequencer starts up just fine with the DOUT and AOUT connected. Now I just have to find out how to use them. Just switching to AOUT on the Event-Page didnt do anything so far. Dont I have to configure the HW file for the DOUT? Also, is configuartion for the AOUT needed? I read in the manual that CH 1 to 16 should be allready routed to the DOUT but it also doesnt seem to do anything. When idle all LEDs are lit up on the AOUT, on the DOUT nothing lights up ever.

 

Thanks in advance,

Alex

[latigid on]

I'm glad it was an easy fix!

For setting up the analogue channels, press Exit until you get to a list of menus then scroll through them with the datawheel until you get to CV configuration. The module type should be AOUT (probably AOUT_NG for non-midiphy boards). Changing the module type will always reset the data; useful if it gets corrupted and no power cycle is required.

The CV menu is where the outputs are calibrated and the clocks are configured.

For setting up the DOUT chain, count the number of 595 shift registers:

JA 1,2
lemec_L 3,4
lemec_R 5,6,7; 8,9

so the first gates/clocks module will be at SR 10. Probably we should push the git update for a properly configured HWCFG file. 

# CV and Gate/Trigger/Sync Setup

##################################################
# CV and Gate/Trigger/Sync Setup
##################################################

# AOUT interface now selected in CV Configuration Menu and stored in MBSEQ_GC.V4 file
# please scroll through the menu to find this page!

# the 8 CV gates can be assigned to a shift register (0=off, 1-32: number of shift register):
# - 1st CV Gate available at DOUT SR output D7
# - 2nd CV Gate available at DOUT SR output D6
# - 3rd CV Gate available at DOUT SR output D5
# - ...
# - 8th CV Gate available at DOUT SR output D0
CV_GATE_SR1   10

# and DIN Clock Outputs can be assigned to a shift register as well (0=off, 1-32: number of shift register):
# D7..D0 will output individual clock or start/stop signals which can be configured in the CV configuration page
CLK_SR        11

# additional gate triggers are available on common digital output pins of the
# DOUT shift register chain - they are assigned to AOUT channel #16 (Note C-1, C#1, D-1, ...)
# define the shift registers which should be used here (each provides 8 gates)
# Note that SRs assigned to this function cannot be used as LED outputs (exclusive function)
# Allowed values: 1-32, 0 disables the function, all other values invalid and not allowed
DOUT_GATE_SR1   12
DOUT_GATE_SR2   0
DOUT_GATE_SR3   0
DOUT_GATE_SR4   0
DOUT_GATE_SR5   0
DOUT_GATE_SR6   0
DOUT_GATE_SR7   0
DOUT_GATE_SR8   0

# if set to 1, the additional DOUT "gates" will send 1mS pulses
# useful for analog drums
DOUT_1MS_TRIGGER 1

# should J5A/B/C outputs be enabled (0: no, 1: yes, 2: yes, but in open drain mode)?
#  - the 6 first AOUT gates will be forwarded to J5A/B
#  - the remaining last 2 AOUT gates are available at J5C.A10 and J5C.A11 (LPC17: J28.WS and J28.MCLK)
#  - DIN sync clock will be forwarded to J5C:A0 (LPC17: J28.SDA)
#  - DIN sync start/stop will be forwarded to J5C:A1 (LPC17: J28.SC)
#  - if open drain mode enabled (option 2), external pull-ups have to be connected to J5 pins
#    (advantage: pin levels can be pulled to 5V)
#
# NEVER USE THIS TOGETHER WITH ANALOG POTS - IT WILL CAUSE A SHORT CIRCUIT!
J5_ENABLED 0

 

[knochenfabrik]

Thank you very much, after the configuartion the DOUT works fine :-). Not so the AOUT though - I cant seem to make it do anything. Should the LEDs of the AOUT be lit up when nothing is sent? I use the midiphy-pcbs but replaced the MAX5500 with MAX525s since they had the same format.

Greetings, Alex

[latigid on]

MAX525 should work too. You should be able to control/calibrate the AOUT channels from the config page. What AOUT config are you using? 

The LEDs will indicate the approximate voltage, but will only be off at around 0V as there is an offset present.

Photos of the boards so I can check if anything looks off? RC jumpers on the superDAC PCB not connected maybe? Correctly assembled cable attached to J19s?

 

[knochenfabrik]

I tried to use all of the AOUT-configs available in the system. I guess if I select AOUT Chn 1 in the Event-Page there should be uncalibrated CV on Channel 1 of the DOUT to begin with if i send Notes/Steps? However, I dont seem to have any output right now. Also, I observed that LED 4 and LED 8 of the DOUT-board are slightly dimmer than the other ones.

Attached some poor pictures - I will try to take better ones if needed when there is daylight again.

Thank you so much,

Alex

[latigid on]

I'm not sure if you initiated the DAC. If you choose a track on the AOUT port but no module is configured, you won't get any change. The menu page I'm talking about is here:

 CV Configuration Page

This page allows to select the AOUT/AOUT_LC/AOUT_NG interface, to configure CV channel and gate parameters, and to configure the DIN Sync Clock output.

• CV: selects the CV channel (1..8)
• Curve: selects the output curve: V/Oct, Hz/V, Inverted
• SlewR(ate): allows to configure a slew rate (slack) in the range of 0..255 mS
• SusK: activates the "SusKey" function (also known as "fingered portamento"): the slew rate will only be activated if at least two notes are played. This allows to use the glide function to enable slew only on demand.
• PRng: sets the pitch range for pitch bender events (normally 2, use 12 or 24 to sweep over one, resp. two octaves)
• Gate: sets the gate polarity (positive or negative)
• Calibr.: allows to force different output voltages for calibration (Min/Middle/Max/1V, 2V, 4V, 8V)
• Clk: selects 1 of 8 clock outputs (available at a dedicated DOUT shift registered which has been configured with the CLK_SR parameter in the MBSEQ_HW.V4 file). Each clock has an individual clock divider, or can optionally be used to output a Start/Stop signal
• Rate: defines the output rate of the selected clock output (1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, 16, 24, 32, 48, 96, 192, 384 ppqn and Start/Stop)
• Width: sets the pulsewidth of the clock output signal (1..255 mS)
• Module: selects the AOUT module which is connected to J19 of the core module (AOUT, AOUT_LC or AOUT_NG)

 

Did you reach this page and set the Module type to "AOUT"? 

Thereafter you should be able to "Calibr[ate]" volts in steps from 1-10V and min/mid/max. This is also how you can fine-calibrate the channels.

Best,
Andy

 

[knochenfabrik]

Yes, I have configured everything as shown in the manual. The configuration doesn't change the outputs though. LED 4 and LED 8 seem to do strange things on the AOUT-expander - first they both were dimmer than all the other LEDs and during testing LED4 even turned red...

Maybe my cable is the problem: Tried to measure contuinity from the end of the J19 cable to GND and Vd on the LEMEC boards but it didnt work (used lemec since I cant reach the core-board easily). On the Core-board-schematic it shows that both rows of the J19 connector should have GND and Vd but I couldnt even find contuinity between the rows at the end of the cable that is connected to J19

[latigid on]

I think you need to test piece by piece. 

First disconnect everything.

The ribbon cables should have the IDCs mounted with the notches/nubs oriented the same way relative to the cable (e.g. both pointing down along the cable).

http://ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_aout.pdf shows the connections of the DAC. For the midiphy superDAC, we use the modern pinout, so CS = RC1 on pin 10, SI = SO on pin 6 and SC is on pins 7/8.

Before powering up, ensure +5V is not shorted to 0V (ground). Check polarised components are properly oriented (seems good from the photo).

Connect a known good cable to J19s. Not J19A!

You should measure +5V on pins 3/4 of the IDC pin header and on pins 7/14/20 of the 525/5500.

After initialising in the SEQ, you should be able to measure voltage on the J1 pin header outputs: 0V at min setting and 2.048V at max setting. Out 1 is on the right by the J1 label, then going left, outs 2/3/4, 0V, no connection, 0V, then 5/6/7/8.

 

[latigid on]

For testing tranmute8, you can start with no other boards connected. Verify no shorts on the power rail, though if your rack powered up that's likely not an issue. After connecting the Eurorack power cable, you should measure +12V/-12V on pins 4/11 of the op amps. Check that the op amp orientation is correct with pin 1 near the IC1/2/3/4 label. C3/4 seem to be correct.

I think you should still get some output even with nothing connected to the op amp inputs. Outputs on J3 should each be at -5V.

You can verify your octal board with a working binaire board.

 

 

[Hawkeye]

Please also note, that we decided to sell the boards early due to demand, but now have an extensive video tutorial on them coming up shortly, it will cover:

* assembly
* cable building & wiring within your eurorack,
* setting up the modules in the v4+ (configuration file and menu) and
* fine-calibrating the CV outputs individually over 10 voltage-steps of the eurorack output range

It also contains a small "track test" showing the v4+ in a fun looping mode, echoing previously recorded notes to two CV-outs using the SEQ duplication effect.

We've got over 220GB of input source video files on disk, which will need cutting, speedups and voiceover, but working hard to publish the tutorial soon! :)

Have a great new week start and many greets!
Peter

[niles]

That is awesome progress/news on the cv modules, very cool stuff!  Got a quick question that I guess is more troubleshooting related than operation related - 

On the Midi IN4 and OUT4, I know they are planned for controlling the BLM at some point in the future, but in the meantime should they work as regular Midi in/out ports? I have a keystep plugged in and it works on IN1, IN2, and IN3, but not 4 (when viewing via midi monitor). Was curious if it's a midiseq software setting or intentionally hardwired to be different.  

My vote goes to bad wiring on my part, but just double checking.  

Thanks

EDIT - Actually the more I read on the USB OTG it seems like I should be able to plug the keystep into USB with the switch in the OTG position. Quick power cycle but still no activity on the midi monitor. The same if I try with my Novation SL MK2 midi keyboard. Both they keystep and SL are being powered by a PSU and not reliant on USB power. Do you  need a special OTG cable for it to work?

Edited September 2, 2019 by niles

[latigid on]

Hello,

2 hours ago, niles said:

On the Midi IN4 and OUT4, I know they are planned for controlling the BLM at some point in the future, but in the meantime should they work as regular Midi in/out ports? I have a keystep plugged in and it works on IN1, IN2, and IN3, but not 4 (when viewing via midi monitor). Was curious if it's a midiseq software setting or intentionally hardwired to be different.  

My vote goes to bad wiring on my part, but just double checking.  

Thanks

IN4 will fit a DIN5 as well as a DIN8, but the pads are not connected to avoid potential conflicts when using a BLM and questions of "where's my 5th MIDI in??" If you want to do it anyway, you can add solder bridges here:

 

2 hours ago, niles said:

EDIT - Actually the more I read on the USB OTG it seems like I should be able to plug the keystep into USB with the switch in the OTG position. Quick power cycle but still no activity on the midi monitor. The same if I try with my Novation SL MK2 midi keyboard. Both they keystep and SL are being powered by a PSU and not reliant on USB power. Do you  need a special OTG cable for it to work?

Shouldn't need a special cable, but to be honest I've not played around much with the OTG stuff. Did you route the MIDI anywhere, set the channels up etc.?

[niles]

12 minutes ago, latigid on said:

Shouldn't need a special cable, but to be honest I've not played around much with the OTG stuff. Did you route the MIDI anywhere, set the channels up etc.?

For some instruments with Midi DIN I have, but shouldn't I at least see some activity on the midi monitor under USB1, USB2, USB3, or USB4 using a usb keyboard?  

[Hawkeye]

@niles unfortunately, not all MIDI USB OTG gear seems to talk well to each other.

For example my (older) AKAI MPD24 works perfectly via USB with the SEQ, but my newer, small-keys midiplus x4 mini keyboard (which looks a bit like the keystep) does not yet work.

It think there might be a software/communications handshake issue with some newer USB MIDI gear - which has the advantage, that it might be fixed at some point in time, if someone has the time to look into it.

Best regards,
Peter

[knochenfabrik]

On 1.9.2019 at 11:18 PM, latigid on said:

For testing tranmute8, you can start with no other boards connected. Verify no shorts on the power rail, though if your rack powered up that's likely not an issue. After connecting the Eurorack power cable, you should measure +12V/-12V on pins 4/11 of the op amps. Check that the op amp orientation is correct with pin 1 near the IC1/2/3/4 label. C3/4 seem to be correct.

I think you should still get some output even with nothing connected to the op amp inputs. Outputs on J3 should each be at -5V.

You can verify your octal board with a working binaire board.

 

 

Made some progress and got 7 of 8 Channels on the AOUT-expander working by replacing all the cables involved . However, Channel 8 still wont output any Voltage and the LED keeps dimm. I already tried to switch to another octal board but the issues stayed the same. Hopefully I'll find the failure soon - are there specific pins on the ICs that could cause channel 8 not to work? Thank you for the help!

EDIT: I disconnected all boards from the transmute board an powered it. On J3 i only measure -0.08 V on the 8th PIN (if counted from the top) - all other pins give ~-5V as you stated earlier. So i guess I come closer to the problem. :)

Edited September 3, 2019 by knochenfabrik

[latigid on]

Cool, getting closer then!

The components to check on transmute8 are probably related to the second inverting stage, so pins 5,6,7 of IC4, 8R33 (maybe), 8R41, 8R49, C29 and R57.

Check if any of these parts are connected to 0V (ground). Only pin 5 of IC4 should be.

Do you measure voltage on R57?

Best,
Andy

[latigid on]

8R49 looks like a cold-solder joint.

[knochenfabrik]

Hello, again, I measure 0.01 V on R57 but no pins of the mentioned parts seem to be connected to ground. PIN 3,5,10,12 of IC4 are connected to ground (same for IC1 to IC3) though. Greetings, Alex

 

[latigid on]

Any luck on reflowing the components I mentioned? From the behaviour I would guess 8R49 or R57 are not properly soldered.

 

[knochenfabrik]

12 hours ago, latigid on said:

Any luck on reflowing the components I mentioned? From the behaviour I would guess 8R49 or R57 are not properly soldered.

 

Unfortunately not - something strange is going on here...

[Hawkeye]

@knochenfabrikcould you recheck/reflow the SMT IC soldering? DACs and opamps? Don't know if it is in the problematic output circuit, but the upper left pin of the transmute8 IC4 in the pictures looks like a bit bigger than necessary solder blob. Also, sharp high-res photos with good lighting would help! Thanks a lot and i am sure you'll get the last channel up and running finally! For me it's back to video tutorial cutting...

Many greets and good luck!
Peter

[niles]

On 9/2/2019 at 0:36 PM, Hawkeye said:

@niles unfortunately, not all MIDI USB OTG gear seems to talk well to each other.

For example my (older) AKAI MPD24 works perfectly via USB with the SEQ, but my newer, small-keys midiplus x4 mini keyboard (which looks a bit like the keystep) does not yet work.

It think there might be a software/communications handshake issue with some newer USB MIDI gear - which has the advantage, that it might be fixed at some point in time, if someone has the time to look into it.

Best regards,
Peter

Hmm..that is good to know. Could be my somewhat modern gear - although the SL Mk2 is pretty old I think.  Thanks

[latigid on]

@knochenfabrik

Next steps would be to ask again whether you get any voltage out of the superDAC board channel 8 and then to measure voltages on the components/pins I mentioned. Perhaps take some better photos and lay the voltage measurements on top.

[TheMentat]

I have a problem with some of the green superflux LEDs.  Specifically the 3rd and 7th buttons on both rows on the right side board.

 

The switches respond correctly in MIOS, and the red LED's work on the top row ones in question.  

 

Any thoughts on where to start?

 

Where could I find a schematic?

 

IMG_2970.HEIC

Edited September 6, 2019 by TheMentat