TK. Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 For everybody who is interested in making his own Logic/Mackie Control: here are some insights in the current development state. Yesterday I got the graphic LCD and started to write the PIC18F driver. I noticed that the performance is much better than expected, mostly the chip is in idle state, and the LCD can be served very fast due to the new instructions (i.E flash read is appr. 32 times, multiplications appr. 50 times faster!). So I'm assuming that beside of the display all encoders and buttons can also be handled by one PIC18F --- the MIDIbox NG design phase begins right now (ok, next year, because I'm not at home in the next days... ;-))The next interesting notice I made was, that the resolution of the LCD (240x64) is good enough for this application. All characters are displayed in a 3x8 font. Not all chars are looking aesthetical (especially the small letters like "m" and "w"), but can be read without problems. Here some snapshots (sorry for the bad picture quality):The surface I plan to reallize looks different from the original design, because I'm planning to use it also with other applications (Reaktor):Maybe I will add some more buttons at the right upper edge...And finally here the current state of this surface - far from perfection, but everything is working well :)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 22, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 For everybody who is interested in making his own Logic/Mackie Control: here are some insights in the current development state. Yesterday I got the graphic LCD and started to write the PIC18F driver. I noticed that the performance is much better than expected, mostly the chip is in idle state, and the LCD can be served very fast due to the new instructions (i.E flash read is appr. 32 times, multiplications appr. 50 times faster!). So I'm assuming that beside of the display all encoders and buttons can also be handled by one PIC18F --- the MIDIbox NG design phase begins right now (ok, next year, because I'm not at home in the next days... ;-))The next interesting notice I made was, that the resolution of the LCD (240x64) is good enough for this application. All characters are displayed in a 3x8 font. Not all chars are looking aesthetical (especially the small letters like "m" and "w"), but can be read without problems. Here some snapshots (sorry for the bad picture quality):The surface I plan to reallize looks different from the original design, because I'm planning to use it also with other applications (Reaktor):Maybe I will add some more buttons at the right upper edge...And finally here the current state of this surface - far from perfection, but everything is working well :)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 ;D ;DIt's gonna be a very merry christmas...!!Wow, that's fantastic. Out of interest how much was the LCD you got from reicfeilt and what was the product number...?Best...Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stigmata Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 Cool!Damn It!!Now I have to build this too!!!!! ;D ;)Take CareChristoffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 About the LCD info, I found the model ;)LCD 64240A LED66 EU for ppl who would like to know...Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serge Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 looks great !!!! ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 23, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 After one day playing with a almost complete LC emulator I must say: I've found for what I'm looking for :D But still some effort is necessary to program an alternative mode which allows the use of the controller without help of a host application...LCD: yes, it's a "Displaytech 64240A" for 66 EUR - I love those Displaytech LCD's because of the high quality. :)But for people outside Germany I cannot recommend to buy the stuff at Reichelt due to the high shipping costs to foreign countries of about 35 EUR! Please post here if you know any alternative distributors for Displaytech products or KS0108 compatible displaysBest Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 Yup, I had to yet another re-plan of my box - but it's def gonna be worth it :)!Now, i'm gonna roll with 2 current mb64's and wait for the NG roll out for a MCLC box...;)Stunning stuff...!WRT the LCD, I'm in the UK and this place here stocks the same model...http://www.steatite.co.uk/All the best...Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TzanhZsu Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 Whow, that looks great. How much does all the hardware cost roundabout? Not with the Pannal and all that stuff, only the needed Electronics?Thanks and a merry chrismas TzanhZsu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest memon Posted December 24, 2002 Report Share Posted December 24, 2002 They also sell that LCD in finland, but it costs 140€, so it's cheaper to buy it from that german place.BTW the UI in your LCD looks a quite heavy. I mean, box inside box inside box :) I think a more clear UI could be made with just a couple of lines. Of course you have to support skins, when the final version comes out ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 27, 2002 Report Share Posted December 27, 2002 Is this possibel to integrate in the MIDIBOX NG?http://www.rs-components.de/cgi-bin/bv/browse/Module.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0796502635.1041007569@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccceadcgmfhijhkcfngcfkmdgkldfhf.0&3218460643=3218460643&catoid=-54103771 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 With the help of you I can also write drivers for other graphic LCD displays which are available at Ebay or somewhere else. US people should take a look at http://www.eio.com/lcdprodt.htm where 240x64 displays with another controller chip are available for about US $30It's really difficult to estimate the costs for the whole MIDIbox, since the designs can be very different. For example, if the motorfaders are too much expensive, they can be replaced by common faders and could also be served by the PIC18F core module (with enabled snap/soft-takeover function!).However, here the estimated costs for my implementation:ca. 100 EUR - electronic stuff (2 CORE, 4 DINX4, 3 DOUTX4, 1 MF, 1 LTC)66.00 EUR - graphic LCD display28.80 EUR - 64 high quality buttons03.20 EUR - 32 Miniature buttons08.00 EUR - ca. 160 LEDs22.50 EUR - 9 ALPS rotary encoders176 EUR - 8 ALPS motorfaders (note: panasonic faders are much cheaper!)ca. 90 EUR - premade frontpanel from Schaeffer Apparatebauca. 8 EUR - nice looking wooden box (30x40x7) from Obi (a german DIY market chain)makes about 500 EURThe price can be reduced by following meassures:motorfaders replaced by non-motorized faders (saves also one core module)no LED rings (makes the frontpanel simpler)selfmade frontpanelIn this case the price can be reduced to about 200 EURBest Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Memon: the LCD graphic layout is not final ;-) I've planned to add a field for the LED digits of the Logic Control (which normaly display the fader mode and the MTC). However, everybody is welcome to create his own skin :) (for example a big MTC display mode could be usefull)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Hey T, hope u had a good xmas/nye...With the help of you I can also write drivers for other graphic LCD displaysDoes this include one's using the LC7981? Only diff between this and the KS controller I can see is the CGROM for character generation. It also seems more available...I've emailed reicfeilt (cant remember the name atm) a few times with an order but havnt gotten a respose from them or that Schaeffer Apparatebau place - I thought they both took international orders....mebbe there just slow....Cheers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Yes, the x-mas and NYe break was fine, but a little bit to long ;-)Where can I download a datasheet for the LC7981-type display?From my experience international requests are handled very slowly by Reichelt, because they know that normaly people will not order there due to the high shipping fees... Schaeffer Apparatebau definitely ships to the UK for EUR 16.70 (see website)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Where can I download a datasheet for the LC7981-type display?http://www.vitrum.cz/snail/lc7981.pdfIs there ne1 in Germany who has a Paypal account I could send funds too to order from Reichelt for me - then send it over to london too? Just and idea...Thanks againDan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Alright, the data transaction is similar to the protocol used by the KS0108, so I don't expect problems.Concerning Reichelt: I don't have the time to handle the orders for other people (it's not against you Dan), but if nobody else can help you, I could ask Chris who already sells the parts for the MBHP modulesBest Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Nice, that's good to know the LC7981 could work...WRT to the Reichelt order - heh, i wasn't meanin you personally T - you do too much for all the midibox freaks already ;) I've already gotton in contact with Chris in order to get the modules pre made, but i think for the amount of modules i need it might cost too much for me atm - we shall see tho....I can get most things here easily enuff - it's just the odd thing here n there...Thanks again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest damien Posted January 14, 2003 Report Share Posted January 14, 2003 Hello,I'm really looking after the new mackie clone project, so I would know at what step of this project your are .When does it will be possible to built such one? I saw that the logic remote and the mackie remote are not exactly the same , the logic seems to be better;Do you know the differences between this two desks???? Is it the inside OS that is different?Thank you for all the passion and the time you offer to us for this massive project. Best regardsdamien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 I will continue with the MIDIbox NG/LC when I get the panel from Schaeffer, thereafter it could get about one or two weekends until the new box is ready for the public.As far as I know there is no functional difference between LC and MC, just only the device IDs are not the same to prevent a connection between Logic and MC ;-)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Hurlock Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 Hi TKI have 16 motorfaders coming for the new boxes. ;)The MB NG LC will support 16 faders with an extra core etc ? ;DIan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 along with the 8 motor faders, could one also use a single slider connected to the ain to act as the master fader? - as on the normal LC....My LC design would then have the following:8 motorfaders + 1 10k master fader9 encoders + 8 16LED rings (was also thinking of having an LED bar display and be able to switch between the two LED displays)85 Buttons (all assigned to LC controls)62 LEDS (65 if the smpte, beats and rude solo LED's can also be implemented - as on LC. All assigned to LC controls)So basically, an exact clone of an LC...And all this is doable from Feb? Fantastic ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris_FX_freak Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Hi Thorsten The price can be reduced by following meassures: motorfaders replaced by non-motorized faders (saves also one core module) Regarding the implementation of normal 10k linear faders instead of motorfaders not mainly for cost reasons but i havent yet found a source to get them in greece (and i already had a bad experience with internet shopping)So the point is: using the 18F processor how many DINX, DOUT, AINX will be needed to have the LC emu. Another point is using linear pots there is no limitation for only 8 pots as in motorfader extention so the master can be implemented as well.Some rough thoughts are for 96 buttons needed 3 DOUTAlso another DOUT for led rings1 DINX for the 9 encoders 8 for channels 1 for scrub wheel1 AINX for the 9 faders8 for channels 1 for master.Are those thoughts right or I got it all wrong.Any inputs are welcomeThx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Hi Dimitris,your thoughts to this solution are correct. Only one core and the modules you've listed. It will be more clear when I release the first version which demonstrates the possibilities with the LC emulation PlugInBest Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johannes Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 Hi,[*]176 EUR  - 8 ALPS motorfaders (note: panasonic faders are much cheaper!)Where do you get those faders at this low price (22€), as the supplier you stated on the MF-Site (Albs) wants 28,71€ per fader according to Pearl. (see also http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=german;action=display;num=1039798353)greetzJohannes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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