lifeinabox Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 So, It seems that I have to burn the Bootstrap loader, the mios 1.7 and the SID application, but I just wanted to make sure those were the only things that I needed to burn to the pic (there were so many files it seemed I needed more). I am (eventually) running a single chip SID with a 6581 plugged into it, a 16 x 2 lcd with 1 encoder, 4 select buttons and 1 menu button oh and a bankstick. Is there anything else I need to burn to the pic? Thanks for your help - kBud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shed Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 you need to burn *just* the bootstrap to the pic, and then you can upload mios and the sid app via midi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Well, the reason that I got the burner is because I was having trouble uploading the other stuff via midi so is it possible to upload all of it through the pic? - kBud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonhorse Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I was having trouble uploading the other stuff via midi so is it possible to upload all of it through the pic?I dont't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdutcher Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 I dont't think so.wait a minute, can somebody confirm/deny this? i thought it WAS possible to upload MIOS, etc. to the PIC without using MIDI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 It doesn't actualy make sense that a pic couldn't be programmed completely. I mean, I bought the jdm last week for the specific purpose of bypassing the midi problems I had been having. It would only make sense that you could do this, though as seen in my post i don't know how. - kBud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I know I am not the only person who has had mios upload problems with a mac, is there anyone out there with a pc that could run these tests on their pc in the new england area or by mail?? I am totally desparate at this point. - kBud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 With the old mbhp stuff you could upload apps via the JDM. But we are rolling with the new n improved MIOS nowadays so you just burn the bootstrap loader as already mentioned...Once this is done you then take the PIC, plop it in a core, syx MIOS then the same with whatever apps u want...gravy really  ;)I know I am not the only person who has had mios upload problems with a macMebbe u should get a PIC from SmashTV with the bootstrap loader already burnt...then follow the instructions on the bootstrap loader page (on the ucapps site) for uploading shit with a mac...Best, D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Yes,It's also possible to burn MIOS and application code to the PIC along with the bootstrap loader - but this is totally unsupported (You'd have to find out the method by yourself - huh?)There are some good reasons for the current practice:Simplicity: With a PIC burned with a bootstrap loader, MIOS/application uploads/updates can be done over midi. With a MIDIbox, there's no reason to skip over getting midi (core) working, because you want midi working anyway.(And taking these things into account - there's no reason what so ever, to mess thing up by describing a redundant, more technical way of doing things)So - forget what I said ;)---But what is the problem with your midibox? Describe??You have bootstrap loader in, but: A. Can't get it communicate over midi? (Can you see midibox sending the Sysex?) B. Midi seems to work, but MIOS upload fails (with a Mac)?Bye, Moebius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 When I received the pic it had the bootstrap loader. I checked it and it was giving off the correct messages. Then there was an error during the midi sysex upload while following the Mac instructions for sysex librarian. Then I couldnt get an messages at all. So thats when I started asking questions in a previous thread. I was having problems with both my SID and the core so i was trying to get one that would work to troubleshoot the other. Everyone just says upload with MIDI and it will be fine, but in the case that it isn't no one seems to be able to offer any help. - kBud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illogik Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hi, I think everyone is trying to help here but sometimes it's difficult to see what the problem is by only looking at the symptoms. However i agree with what moebius says; it's a midi box so first you should hav your midi working. First i would disconnect everything from the core exept the lcd. (what does the lcd say when you power on (if only black blocks, you have only bootstrap loader, if nothing turn contrast pot)). Then just check all the connections and follow the midi_troubleshooting guide in the forum. If you have midi working we have eliminated hardware problems that could cause problems with uploading. Then try uploading again. Step. by. step..good luck, marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Slow down K! ;)Don't get frustrated, but we need better symptom infomation!Then there was an error during the midi sysex upload while following the Mac instructions for sysex librarian.Knowing what the error was might be a start to solving this...Then I couldnt get an messages at all. So thats when I started asking questions in a previous thread.Again it's time to look at the error message and to test/verify your midi interface on the mac and on the core.....Everyone just says upload with MIDI and it will be fine, but in the case that it isn't no one seems to be able to offer any help. - kBudNot enough info to know what's going on yet! I can tell you that sysex upload on the MAC works fine for me as shown on 10.2.8.....Best!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Sorry guys, just a bad tech week. I am going to try to reload the pic with bootstrap loader on my friends pc. If I can get that done then i will tell you what is going on with it. The problem i had before with the Mac was that while loading it there was no error and then after loading it on there there was no midi response nothing coming out after power up, nothing coming from the sid. I will see where tonight gets me. you guys are great. - kBud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 OK So I tried to re burn my pic three times and now it keeps giving off an F8 -- -- -- --- Timing clock every 2 seconds or so and then soon after it starts to "freak out" and send random program change and note on and note off data. I checked all of the voltage readings on the jdm and the core and they were fine. Has anyone else encountered this? - kBud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illogik Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 hi, you had an allready burnt (bootstrapped) PIC yeah?? Once you have it there's no need to burn it again, even when you try to upload something and this doesten't work, your bootstrap will stay ok. What does your lcd say??I think that you should check midi in/out and upload mios, when this works you will see something like "MIOS 1.7" instead of the black blocks you should have with only the bootstrapgood luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Well it's erased now so I have no choice but to start from scratch, unfortunately. I wish i had better sense to just get another bootstrap pic rather than a jdm module. - kBud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 So i got midi ox to reveive the correct Bootstrap Loader message but for only a minute and then it started random note changes and cc changes again? - kBud :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 I think that I might be having trouble with the crystal of the caps that bring it to ground. The right sysex will show up if i short the caps to ground and then let go, i don't know why???? - kBud ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Thats interesting! Which caps and which crystal are you using exactly?Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 I am using the caps and crystal that were recommended on smashtv's mouser parts list. This is a very strange happenning. Once, as i said, i got it to start upwith the correct message, then the message became confused note on/off messages, cc changes and other such things. It got faster and faster until it reached a sort of peak speed. When i checked midi-ox for details of what was happening i noticed that there was an incoming bpm being measured that peaked at 375 BMP!! It was quite the flow of midi code. There are six points together on the core, the two each for the two caps and the crystal. If i touch those six with my finger the flood of midiout messages stops, then if i let go it gives the correct message then soon after it goes back to the flood, very strange. I think it is a great thing what you guys are doing and i am sorry that this nube has been messing things up for you, i just want a sid synth soooo bad. 8 months and still trying - kBud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 If the oscillator doesn't work stable, it could be that not the complete code (MIOS and/or application) has been loaded into the PIC. And this can result to such unexplainable effects - a lot of random instructions are executed.So, first thing which has to be solved is to get the crystal running. Unfortunately I cannot give you that much tips here - does anybody use the same crystal and caps from Mouser?Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arumblack Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Ihave used the same parts with succes.Ihope you get it figured out.By the way i have been working on my sid for over a year, I have one good core/sid combo, and recently converted it to an 8580 and optimized psu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 There are six points together on the core, the two each for the two caps and the crystal. If i touch those six with my finger the flood of midiout messages stops, then if i let go it gives the correct message then soon after it goes back to the flood, very strange.How long it takes to "midi flood" to start? (I'm thinking of midibox boot process here)What should your PIC contain? Bootstrap loader? (+MIOS?) (+MIOS & Application? (SID application?))Did you actually _fully_ erase PIC before burning bootstrap loader again?---I'd say, that shorting XTAL caps to ground or touching pins around there causes PIC to reset. Then it seems to start normal boot process ("the correct message")."Random" midi flood is known to be caused by "not properly" terminated input pins.. with SID application that would probably mean R9 missing (or not properly connected) from core board.---If you're thinking that XTAL/caps are causing the trouble, try reflowing solder joints connected caps, crystal and pic pins where crystal is connected...Bye, Moebius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 So, first thing which has to be solved is to get the crystal running. Unfortunately I cannot give you that much tips here - does anybody use the same crystal and caps from Mouser?Many, many times over - both the Vishay xtal and Xicon caps from Mouser. I built a working core from the parts on the list before I released the list, and the Vishay xtal has shipped with around half of all of the core kits I have sold. The others I use (abracon) are just as good, and perform slightly better in extreme high EMI/ interference environments (the only good way to test a crystal,in the shadow of one of USA's most powerfull AM transmitters!) It's purely an availability issue that dictates which I use of the two manufacturers......If you're thinking that XTAL/caps are causing the trouble, try reflowing solder joints connected caps, crystal and pic pins where crystal is connected.Absolutely. Reflow not just look. Is there soldering flux around these connections? I have seen flux conduct enough to cause high resistance short and keep the crystal from starting or other unusual behavior.Remember the caps are really only there to start the xtal oscillating, and don't really help things after it does.If these caps are too far different in value either naturally (from their 5% tolerance) or if one has changed drastically due to soldering overheat the xtal won't act right.Also if the xtal was overheated during soldering it can act like this, but they usually just die completely instead.As always, I'll burn the bootloader for anyone anytime, for free, even if you don't buy the pic or anything else from me.Also describe your power supply please, I helped a builder with xtal issues like this that completely went away when he changed power supplies, he was trying to use a switch-mode supply from and old computer, and it apparently had enough AC ripple on the 5V line to mess things up.BTW: I haven't forgot about the issue that got you to this point (Mac MIOS upload), I'll help you get that going after the core is happy. ;)Best!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeinabox Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 I will be trying out these suggestions as soon as i have time hopefully today, thank you for all of your great suggestions I will let you know. - kBud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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