New SID design.

[Jaicen]

Hey guys, i'm just wondering if anybody has seen the thread below. Looks like a really interesting project, particularly since the designer alludes to the fact that he got the ADSR etc to work as intended, which I assume fixes the SID envelope bug. Could be invaluable when stocks of SID's start to run dry in a few years time.

http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/projects:phoenixsid_65x81#to_do

EDIT: That last comment was not intended to imply that this is a drop-in replacement for a 6581 or 8580.

[ilmenator]

...but it could become a replacemenmt, at least this is what the name of those pages is pursuing - or so it seems. Nice project, but for the time being it is cheaper to buy a complete C64 on eBay...

ilmenator

[smashtv]

Wow Python->Verilog converter means FPGA for the masses....

The SID emu is cool too...  ;)

Smash

[stryd_one]

Wow Python->Verilog converter means FPGA for the masses....

The SID emu is cool too...  ;)

Smash

Wow indeed, that's awesome!

[TheMaXX]

Hey all, thanks for posting about my PhoenixSID project. I'm working on this project for fun, and I like the fact that others are interested. I recently did a successful live demo in front of a graduate class, at UMass Lowell (the university I recently graduated from).

I gave the Robot Design class an intro to music synthesis, an overview of the SID (a few people were already SID fans, and were thrilled), showed a basic synth design from concept to reality on an FPGA, and then gave them a glipmse into the design of PhoenixSID. I also played the demos I have on the website, and showed how they were created. People loved hearing the sounds, with some happily mentioning how it took them back to their childhood days.  ;D

Of course, those demos I made are basic compared the amazing and magical music SID composers worldwide have been making for years. I'm totally in awe as to what you bright, creative folks can do with the SID (and I want to learn!). I did learn how to make a bass drum from this site, and it was a favorite demo!

Where do you think I should go from here with this project? (Right now it's in 3 prototype boards, has much of the SID implemented (but still needs details and cleanup), and is controllable over USB). A better way to control it (besides the python console) would be nice. I have a day job as an engineer, and also play in a band, so I'd like to focus my efforts on things that will give the most bang for the buck.

Rock on,

George P.

www.gammaburst.net

[Slorrin]

I am a tool.  What is python and FPGA?

Also, when fully designed, what do you estimate the cost of this item would be?

[stryd_one]

A language and a chip... It's a bit complex, google it :)

TheMaXX it's great to have you on board man. I think my reply to you will be a little longer, I'll come back to that shortly ;)

PS Watch out for that claw ;)

[moebius]

Also, when fully designed, what do you estimate the cost of this item would be?

python = Powerful interpretted programming language, used by Google for example

http://www.python.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_programming_language

FPGA = Field-Programmable Gate Array, A Chip that has large number of digital gates that can be programmed to perform complex logic tasks - like in this case to emulate digital portion of the SID chip.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fpga

M

[Slorrin]

so this all adds up to.. very good new SID design?

[TK.]

A FPGA cannot beat the real SID, because the original chip contains some analog circurity which cannot be emulated with digital logic. The FPGA project can be compared with software emulators like the SIDPLAY library - no benefit at all, just a nice alternative solution...

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[TheMaXX]

A FPGA cannot beat the real SID, because the original chip contains some analog circurity which cannot be emulated with digital logic. The FPGA project can be compared with software emulators like the SIDPLAY library - no benefit at all, just a nice alternative solution...

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Hi Thorsten,

PhoenixSID does have external analog circuitry for the filter (and yes, you're right that an FPGA alone can't beat a real SID).

George

[Slorrin]

Hi Thorsten,

PhoenixSID does have external analog circuitry for the filter.

George

OOOH SNAP!  You jsut got served!

Now... DANCE! 

(nerd dance competition begins!)

[stryd_one]

lol

Seriously though, FPGA is never going to sounds exactly like a SID, but trust me, when all the SIDs are gone, you'll be very glad that TheMaXX has gone to this effort. In 50 years he will be a hero! Saviour of SID junkies the world over!  ;D heheh

[Slorrin]

lol

Seriously though, FPGA is never going to sounds exactly like a SID, but trust me, when all the SIDs are gone, you'll be very glad that TheMaXX has gone to this effort. In 50 years he will be a hero! Saviour of SID junkies the world over!  ;D heheh

I wonder if 50 years from now people will even remember the sid.  How many people here play a vacuum tube controled oscilator controlled by plug in resistance cartridges?

[stryd_one]

Why would they, it's been superseded by other things...

The SID hasn't been superseded yet, that's why I use it :) Then again, in 50 years, those FPAA's might be fully in action, in which case the SID may be superseded, and I'll use those instead :)

[TK.]

Hi George,

sorry, with the "no benefit at all" I didn't want to say, that I don't respect your efforts! It's a nice project, and it's great to see how it develops. I've also a Spartan III board laying around here and thought about a synth project, but in my eyes (again: this is not to disrate your project!) a SID replacement is a nice start, but with FPGA you can do even more powerful things, which are hard to emulate with DSPs or other CPUs. The fun begins, once you have a lot of parallel processes for oscillators, modulators and digital filters. Analog filters sound great, but they are not so flexible... :-/

There is a high potential in your project, if you would go beyond of the SID feature set. E.g., how about FM? :)

It would be interesting for me, what is the current utilization? Is it possible to instanciate multiple SID cores, or is spartan III too small for this? I think that - lets say - 8 SID instances, slightly detuned, 4 assigned to the left, 4 to the right audio channel, would give a really fat unisono sound :)

Best Regards, Thorsten.