Wow! Monome kits sold out in less than a day...

[Doug Wellington]

Well, I decided to buy a 40h Monome keypad kit to attach to my MIDIbox.  I'm glad I placed my order early, as all 100 kits are sold out already!

:o

Doug

http://www.analognotes.com

[asafnetzer]

Yes, It was quicker then last time, even the monome guys where surprised.

Glad I bought a kit last time.

[smashtv]

I moved this post, it's not a MIDIbox HUI so it does not belong there.

A few things on this overhyped junk:

By only producing 100 and being "shocked" by how fast they sold out they are playing an artificial scarcity game against their buyers.  How did they fail to re-invest cash from past product runs?

If you have not suffered failing rubber buttons you have not been playing long.....These are designed to be cheap to produce, not to work reliably long term.  Don't get all fired up by me saying this, just show me the reliability testing data from sparkfun, like any real switch has.  How many million/thousand/hundred cycles did it last? Oh right, untested.....

But what really chaps my ass is the high horse these guys are riding.

From the Monome site:

"we additionally require thoughtful consideration if you consider having derivative parts manufactured. we absolutely prohibit the use of companies who take advantage of questionable governments with loose or nonexistent labor and environmental laws. local, high-quality manufacturers exist who are environmentally responsible and provide living wages to their workers. seek them out. help make positive change by supporting sustainable businesses and local economies."

I don't know whether to say clueless or dollarblinded here......Boards have the Advanced Circuits logo on them, perhaps something along the lines of "re-packaged and overpriced in the USA" would be a bit more truthfull.....They are known to outsource to cheap labor countries. (proof? no problem.)

Truth is -all- electronic components are made at the expense of someone's local environment and natural resources, And I challenge you to find anyone producing any parts you use that do not make use of cheap labor and environmental denial....Otherwise a bypass cap would cost way more than a nickel and a chip no less than $1 (talking full lifecycle here including environmentally sustainable recycle/disposal cost).  People are underpaid and dying in a $mineral mine somewhere right now so your cell phone is cheap....It's been this way since the appearance of the transistor in consumer electronics...cope with it and try to change it or deny it, but don't help perpetuate a lie.

Don't take my word:

CNET - Parts makers urged to check tantalum source

Then the next year, with some people finally clued, the Cabot cartel was suing their customers, Vishay and Kemet for trying to run screaming from bloody minerals:

EDN - Tantalum To Get Its Day In Court

If pretty lights are all it takes to sell you a crap overpriced box/kit/concept, time to evaluate whether you are a toy collector or an artist. 

I'm not trying to make enemies with this etc., but to see this obviously commercial "project" dressed as open source, while either clueless or lying to you about where the components come from......Then to see normally sane MIDIboxers promoting it for them.....Enough! 

Best

SmashTV

[SLP]

Truth is -all- electronic components are made at the expense of someone's local environment and natural resources, And I challenge you to find anyone producing any parts you use that do not make use of cheap labor and environmental denial....[...] People are underpaid and dying in a $mineral mine somewhere right now so your cell phone is cheap....It's been this way since the appearance of the transistor in consumer electronics...cope with it and try to change it or deny it, but don't help perpetuate a lie.

sad but true  :( ::)

[Ashiman]

I think those kits ( or teh real story) were self-adhesive ;D

[Doug Wellington]

I moved this post, it's not a MIDIbox HUI so it does not belong there.

I wondered what happened to my post...

A few things on this overhyped junk:

[sNIP] Ouch...

I'm not trying to make enemies with this etc., but to see this obviously commercial "project" dressed as open source, while either clueless or lying to you about where the components come from......Then to see normally sane MIDIboxers promoting it for them.....Enough! 

Dang, why didn't you tell me all this before I bought those parts???  :o

It's OK, Smash, worst case, I'll rip out the MIDIbox DIN/DOUT circuitry and sell the keypad on ebay...  "Ultra Rare, Collectors Item, Low Reserve, not Moog!"  ::)

Doug

P.S.  Umm...  Did you just imply that I'm normally sane? :P ;D

http://www.analognotes.com

[*jOi~]

I won't say much here, and don't want to cause anybody any strife.

I would however like to say a few words in response to you Smash

I read your post and saw some very interesting points, visited your links and opened my eyes that little bit more. The way you have attacked and labeled the folks at monome as 'clueless', 'dollarblinded' or 'lying', is hasty, unprovoked and inconsiderate.

In my discourse with Mr. Crabtree, he has been very helpful and gracious, originally pointing me to this very community some 2 years ago suggesting it as a good starting point into controlling computer music. They are very kind and thoughtful people, and whilst being 'kind and thoughtful' is no rebuttal to your harsh words, it does go to show the thought they have put into the project.

Whilst you may present 'facts' and 'proof' that opposes their hopes and aims, I see it as admirable that they have done quite extensive research (extensive, yes) and believe their method of manufacture is the best way for them to move forward both ethically and commercially. Thoughtful people, attempting to do their best for the community both world and local, are held in high esteem in my book.

Re: Buttons. I see your point, though for a small company with large profits, it seems a little self-defeating to go through these processes. Sometimes corners have to be cut, and solid design must be trusted? I'm not sure how I would deal with this issue, however I wouldn't let it stop me from producing a product that would further artistic endeavours.

I don't mean to step on toes with this post - I merely want to suggest that we should be more gratuitous and in general, more kind to those whose projects we are not totally informed about. Slinging around words as were stated above would be enough to throw off some who may well own a device and are visiting the site because they have become interested in the idea.

With kind wishes,

Trent

[Ashiman]

i cannot beleive i read the latest post all entirely :P

[smashtv]

First off clueless does not have to be an insult.  You can be clueless because you have been lied to, or just have not seen the full picture yet.  Clueless can include the good guys.

I read your post and saw some very interesting points, visited your links and opened my eyes that little bit more. The way you have attacked and labeled the folks at monome as 'clueless', 'dollarblinded' or 'lying', is hasty, unprovoked and inconsiderate.

Yes....I must admit that this is some of my own personal frustration showing through.  I also put myself in the clueless category, the more I look at supply chains, the less I sleep at night.  It's difficult to realize/admit that the industry you have wrapped your life around is mired in blood, profiteering, and unsustainable consumerism at almost every level.

In my discourse with Mr. Crabtree, he has been very helpful and gracious, originally pointing me to this very community some 2 years ago suggesting it as a good starting point into controlling computer music. They are very kind and thoughtful people, and whilst being 'kind and thoughtful' is no rebuttal to your harsh words, it does go to show the thought they have put into the project.

Understood.  I live in the land of capitalism at any cost, so challenging "green" as sales speak is sport for me.  So many companies are just flat out lying about very important things.

A parts buyer/broker is either clueless because they don't want to know, clueless because they have been lied to by suppliers, or are in the know and money trumps morals.  I simply won't buy from certain companies, even when part x costs 5 times as much....and do not spec same companies for designs outside of the MIDIbox universe.

Whilst you may present 'facts' and 'proof' that opposes their hopes and aims, I see it as admirable that they have done quite extensive research (extensive, yes) and believe their method of manufacture is the best way for them to move forward both ethically and commercially. Thoughtful people, attempting to do their best for the community both world and local, are held in high esteem in my book.

Sorry no.  Extensive research is touring the factories you buy from, hiring independent translators and private firms to inspect and verify supply chain independent of sales.  Ever hired a private lab to really test for RoHS compliance?  I have.

This part of it is all about your own comfort level with trusting people who will lie to you to make money.

Re: Buttons. I see your point, though for a small company with large profits, it seems a little self-defeating to go through these processes. Sometimes corners have to be cut, and solid design must be trusted? I'm not sure how I would deal with this issue, however I wouldn't let it stop me from producing a product that would further artistic endeavours.

Right.  This isnt about cutting corners though.  For this price you should expect to have something reliable and have a cycle count test history, else every buyer is making a compromise due to pretty lights.  I really do hope everyone got lucky and it just works great forever.

I -know- from years of experience that this button concept is a very common point of failure, so with lack of testing history or any real data on the chemistry of the button or the PCB plating I won't put any show at the mercy of this or advise anyone else to either.

I don't mean to step on toes with this post - I merely want to suggest that we should be more gratuitous and in general, more kind to those whose projects we are not totally informed about. Slinging around words as were stated above would be enough to throw off some who may well own a device and are visiting the site because they have become interested in the idea.

With kind wishes,

Trent

Understood, and I know I was a bit harsh, but monome belongs at monome.org, not here.  I'm typically fine to keep my opinion of things quiet until I'm forced to step around/over them.  ;)

I'm not trying to make enemies with this or make anyone feel like they are personally under attack from me.  If it makes people hate me but really actually think about the situation for the first time a little anger coming my way is well worth it.

Ask why leaded CRT tubes get an RoHS exemption...Ask why "semi-metallic" brake pads still contain asbestos, and why OSHA voted down the rule requiring mechanics be informed of this...Ask why it is acceptable to clearcut forest to make mining less expensive.

Best Regards

SmashTV

[julienvoirin]

It's OK, Smash, worst case, I'll rip out the MIDIbox DIN/DOUT circuitry and sell the keypad on ebay...  "Ultra Rare, Collectors Item, Low Reserve, not Moog!" 

sell it to me please ! i need this keypad, and guess what : i did the din/dout integration using scan matrix (in user projects)

contrary to smash tv i find them very clever at monome, obvious they had the same idea than me(the 8x8 pads), and believe it or not, rubber buttons are the best things to make music (elecrtribe, mpc  ...) ; classical butons like those on machinedrum (1500 euros!) suck. i got all these machines to compare. and i produce better tracks on rubber buttons !

[stryd_one]

rubber buttons are the best things to make music

Rubber pad actuators maybe nice to use, but the switch mechanism used in the monome.... maybe "the best" is a bit strong.

[Ashiman]

rubber buttons are the best things to make music (elecrtribe, mpc  ...)

:DDDDDD

thanks, I needed a laugh