Has anyone thought of an "MBHP-303" clone?

[t_xen]

I might be crazy or insane, but I had this thought.

is there anyway to write an application for the MBHP_Core module to build a 303 clone?

I'm short on coding, however I have started begun researching "compatables" to replace the obsolete parts.

After I can determine adequate and best replacements, then I'll start desiging a mainboard going straight from the TB-303 schematics.

I've gotten some inspiration from ~ladyada's x0xb0x and ML-303, and Ultra 303's CPU replacement Project (for dead 303 CPUs).

Told you I might be insane.

[Ashiman]

i'll bite: dude i checked your website , you definately following some shady path :P

[nebula]

t_xen, very nice etching job on your LJ page.  How are you applying resist?  Photo?  Toner transfer?  Other?

[t_xen]

I'm using the "iron on" transfer method.  :P

I'll probably not do this when I create the mainboard for the clone.

As soon as funding permits, I'll have the boards professionally fabricated.

Toner transfer isn't too bad for quick one offs. Sometimes the traces don't come out after a transfer attempt, but I easily clean them up with a fine point Sharpie marker.  ;)

[Smithy]

Hmmmmmmmm!

well we may have a bassline mode in the MB-sid but....

This is a very very intriguing concept indeed.

It could be extremely popular also seen as the x0x0x0x waiting list is about a year!

It would be a cool midibox project, provided the hardware is available, plus the big boys have enough time to put into it.

[TK.]

Forget about just remaking existing clones - the analog TB303-like hardware can be controlled via AOUT module with the MBSID V2 firmware. Think about the powerful possibilities (modulation and trigger matrix, arpeggiator, wavetables, etc...).

It's even possible to sequence an additional SID in parallel to a TB303 from a single core and from the same CS. Or add more cores to sequence even more SIDs or external synth hardware...

So, the basics already exist, new software doesn't need to be developed, just start with the experiments...

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[t_xen]

If I'm understanding this correctly, does the SIDv2 firmware have the possibility of controlling Linear VCOs as well?

Perhaps I should read up on the documentation on it.  ::)

[TK.]

At least it is possible to forward Key->CV within the modulation matrix.

It shouldn't be so complicated to add a K2A (Key-to-AOUT) option as well (ca. 10 lines of code). It could also forward the gate, e.g. of the first oscillator, and the glide flag. The only reason why I haven't added this yet is, that I want to collect the requirements before adding such a feature. This should ensure that the implementation is universal enough... however, your requirements are still more simple than expected. Any other functions required? ;-)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Ashiman]

i found this rather raw comment in another forum section but it perfectly covers the stuff here so i decided to give it a go, hope it hits a funny nerve  cause its my only intention ;D

dude why u intend to steal the design so hard?????

there is tons of posible ways to make midi controllers

and if u plan to give chinese to adupt MB for 196 a-ins (i realy dont know what for and how do u want any soft to identify any ch' above 128 but anyway... its ur problem) u can ask the chinese to desing ya the whole thing aswell

maybe better proccesor????

faster plexers????

lower latency????

more midi ins/outs + midi routing ????

better software/interface????

and then publish the desing over here!!!!

and then some ass will come over and will try to make it comertial product ;D

[gavgomad]

At least it is possible to forward Key->CV within the modulation matrix.

It shouldn't be so complicated to add a K2A (Key-to-AOUT) option as well (ca. 10 lines of code). It could also forward the gate, e.g. of the first oscillator, and the glide flag. The only reason why I haven't added this yet is, that I want to collect the requirements before adding such a feature. This should ensure that the implementation is universal enough... however, your requirements are still more simple than expected. Any other functions required? ;-)

Just a thought.... On my "to try" list is an MB-SID v2 controlled dual VCO moog-based synth.... The 8 pre-set CVs could be the basepoint for the two pitch CVs, two pulse width controls, vcf cutoff and res, vca, and vc-balance control.... BUT.... They are definitely exponential circuits.... I don't quite know what acreage is left in the MB-SID v2 memory banks, but a lookup table for exponential key follow would eliminate the need for a separate MB-CV.... ;-)

I think this is a little more than you might want to tackle seeing as though you've already done so many incredible things with the code for v2, but thought I'd chuck it out there.... ;-)

Gavin

[bugfight]

...

. BUT.... They are definitely exponential circuits.... I don't quite know what acreage is left in the MB-SID v2 memory banks, but a lookup table for exponential key follow would eliminate the need for a separate MB-CV.... ;-)

...

if they are v/oct inputs, then this is already done by the circuit.

[t_xen]

TK:

I can't really think of any other functions that would be needed.

Although a simple sequencer would be nice. After giving it some thought, that could be already covered by the WT editor, however I could probably throw on a couple of DIN modules, modify the app source and use the buttons for the note keys on the sequencer.  ;)

jimp:

The original 303 uses a V/Hz scale for note tracking. Still wondering if I should attempt either that or 1v/Oct scaling. Gonna go which has better tracking. And to keep the VCO circuit simple, It will only have Saw and  Square waveform generation implemented.

Thanks for all your comments guys. I though I was just having a case of insane wishful thinking, but seeing how many people are starting to get all over this, then I figure this should be a fairly worthwhile project to offer up to the community.

I'll prolly not post for the next 2 weeks since I'm heading off the continent to an island in the middle of the pacific (goin' to hawaii) for a Christmas pineapple.  :P

In the meantime, I'll be researching more on modern component replacements to use.

After these are done, I'll start building a board layout.

I give props to the creators of the ML-303 and the x0xb0x and Ultra303 (CPU Replacement project) as an inspiration to even think of starting this.  :D

[gavgomad]

if they are v/oct inputs, then this is already done by the circuit.

Hiya Jim and all!

I actually haven't played with the 303 circuit that much - thought it was v/oct as well....

My only interest in weeding in the v/oct support was that so far the best VCO circuits I've found (sounding, not accuracy - v/hz tends to be a bit more stable) are v/oct. Also, I've already got a few really nice moog-clone vco's built and looking for duty!! ;-)

I think this is likely far too much coding to include these lookup tables anyway.... But in the best of all possible worlds.... ;-)

Gavin.

[bugfight]

just to clarify: my point was that if gavgomad has v/oct modules, no lookup table should be required.

i am interested in the modular synth control stuff in general and especially with reuse of sid software.

some real 303 modules controlled by sid software would be a great first step...

[gavgomad]

Sorry! My bad.... Just me making things too complicated for myself again!  :-X

Linear out into CV in feeding the expo converter should do the job.... I like the idea of the equivalent of a Moog Source, plus all the mod goodies in the SID V2, in a nice single rack space.... Will sit nicely next to the Wilba Beast.... ;-)

Gav.

[Ashiman]

hahahahahaha funny you guys talk bout powerful oscillator & stuff ... in 303 topic.. just think it over... in the end , you might end up bass compensate the cranked resonance  (& call me interested oh well )....  ::)

[brother303]

Hi,

why another 303-clone?

In my opinion it would be more interesting to build a standalone 303-style sequencer to trigger my pulse or bass-station.A-outs could be added as well for non midi gear.

What about a standalone sid303? Put in a pt10 with a x0x/ML-like user interface.

Or a mbfm303? Using the opl3 as a kind of (powerful) osc with aditional analog filter+vca section.

Just some ideas... ;)

Greetz

Brother303

[t_xen]

"Why  another 303 clone?"

A sort of short answer...

A simple mbhp based synth that doesn't require desoldering any OPL3 chips from soundcards, or raping a C64 for its SID.

An alternative to currently available 303 clones that uses "rare/obsolete" parts. I cannot find one available that has complete documentation that uses modern hardware.

Currently available clones have a very long wait list because of the rarity of some components are becoming harder to source.

(I don't think SIDs will be around forever)

;)

[bill]

Do you know the Novation BassStation Synth ?

It's a cheap monophonic analog bass synth, that is supposed to emulate the 303 sound.

In fact it's pretty different, and do not have a sequencer.

It's midi driven.

I opened mine, (it's a 1U rack) and there is room for a core module in it.

So i have added a mb core in it, with a little arpegiator program, and i must say that it's cool, i got some nice moogish sounds out of it...

So, i think it's a good base to do another, but different, 303 clone :)

[Ashiman]

is that the one with analog guts? how much bass ?:D

[Ashiman]

i think you guys should make the VCA and filter coupled with CV inputs to everywhere this would serve as an useful building block. Hell y oucan even use the soundcard output to get some raw waveform & CV as well... Let's start with CV'ing up, not some obsolete 303 cpu component ..... noone cares bout that, not even about the sequencer (imho)

[bill]

is that the one with analog guts?

Absolutely  ;D

I'll send a few samples (with the MB mod) this evening

noone cares bout that, not even about the sequencer (imho)

I do care about it ! I like the 303 sequencer, even if it's not handy at first.

[Ashiman]

i dont know what is hard to source about a 303. I bet scaling the CV can get you there and using recent counterpart of the vintage IC would have minimal impact. I am personallyy hunting for a SSM2045 <- vca + vcf in the same package total CV control , you can select 12  / 24 db/ oct, wow! 

[brother303]

Hi,

@x-ten: a 303-clone without the "obsolete" parts with modern/available will never sound like the original.

Believe me,I own a TB303,a x0x and two ML303 (v5 + v6). There is a noticable difference in sound if you only switch from the original Roland-vca (BA662) to a substitute vca like the BA6110. Or change the SK30-o and use another j-fet transistor instead,it`ll be different. (...and very soon you`ll end in a MB33-styled TB-sound!)

That`s because I find it much more interesting to take the 303Seq and add it up with a Bass-station-styled 2osc synth or an fm-sound engine like the opl3. And it`s easier to desolder these chips than you think... ;)

Greetz

Brother303

[Ashiman]

I think the reverb you use is 1000* of greater importance than type of the vintage vca