Jidis
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Posts posted by Jidis
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fourth: rack enclosings can be expensive. if you intend to buy it pre-made and then the front-panel too then you'll surely go over 200 euro
No doubt there. :(
That's why I was recommending ripping something up. It's really not much more than a box anyway. A good area to look is in outdated network and server hardware. They use the same EIA racks as us, and big corporate and government systems usually have top-of-the-line quality and then throw it away and write it off on taxes when they upgrade, plus the digital stuff ages in a way that no matter how nice the case and parts are, it's still a piece of outdated crap. You can find some Compaq server hardware like KVM's and old hub/switches which don't really function as "stand alone", or are from old transfer formats that are way too slow to be of any use to regular people today. You might even get lucky on some buttons, lights, etc.
-George
PS- Wouldn't it be great if old music rackgear aged that way? ;D
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I was talking to Thorsten in another thread about a misbehaving light on an MB64. I got to wondering if there are any consequences to minor (or extreme) differences in the current limiting values for the lights. I know the digit displays running the low value 220 ohms are actually being scanned, so they're not constantly on.
Without getting into trying to calculate an Ohm's law total current value and comparing it to the max capacity of the core supply or the 595 chip's limits, can you safely go up or down a range (say 150-1k) without affecting (or destroying) your average MB circuits? By average, I'm talking probably one full D.Out, but maybe two. Also, I'm guessing you can mix and match values, from one output to another, for different amounts of light on different indicators?
Again, I'm only looking for an estimated guess on the "average" setup (standard LED specs), and not only the obvious power supply and heat issue, but any affect any of that could have on the function of the shift registers.
                         Thanks!
George
PS- Also, if you think there's an ideal version of the 595 for heavy or weird loads, that would help too. Â
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1) I have no idea how to customise my layout (I'm already at stuff that's interesting if everything works, but I'm just at the start!)2) I don't know where to get a 1U/2U rack with fitting power supply.
Oh yeah... did I load up myself with too much work or is this really simpler as it apears for me atm? (cause if both synths work, I try to build myself a custom mb64 for Cubase, but with faders too).
Hey again,
It's probably as much work as you choose to make it. Thorsten and company have made the circuit and software part of it about as "newbie friendly" as it could possibly get, yet overall, it's deep enough that you can expand on it and make your own edits or modifications to either one.
The whole design layout/chassis/case thing is more of a "black art". It could be anything from using an existing case or one that other members have found suitable, to fabricating a totally new one from metal, wood, or plastic. It lends itself to a lot of improvisation and creativity as you've seen in the gallery.
Then there is your choice of balance between the software, the electronics and the physical box design. Different users may be focused more on different parts of it than others. I actually started off dreaming of studio tools I wanted, and am now totally wrapped up in learning about the electronics, PCB layout/routing, etching, metalwork, etc., and intend to start focusing more on learning some PIC and assembler skills. Still got boxes on the agenda, but I guess we all tend to do what we enjoy.
As for a rack chassis, I've thought about doing a two space for something myself, and had planned to use an existing unit (I've got a cheap silver 2U KVM here). I think with anything deep enough, you can probably just bore out holes or a rectangle in most of the face (or remove it), and rivet or bolt a fresh piece of sheet metal over it with your own holes and labels. I've got some equipment here where the face plate isn't even the full dimension of the panel, so if you just cut a rectangle that covered the old knobs or buttons, you could attach it over the front of a rack device and not have to cut the rack screw holes or anything. The difference in panel depth or color at the transition would probably just look like part of it's design.
I don't know what the SID guys need on power requirements, but I wouldn't expect to use the stock internal supply of the rack unit you find. I guess anything which can fit with enough room to breathe could be bolted through the chassis.
For part layouts, you're best to get an idea of what you want by drawing some pictures or something, and then use a PCB layout app (like Eagle), which will let you see and print the actual shapes of the parts along with the pins and connectors. You can use that same print as a template to punch and mark your front panel holes. I guess that's mainly for when there will be a PCB parallel to the panel rather than ribbons or wires going to individually mounted parts.
I've got to get on to sleep. I'm OK with being awake at 6AM, but I get cranky if I miss the first few minutes of Gunsmoke. ;)
I'll probably be back in here tomorrow.        Take Care
-George  Â
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and I don't know what's up with the ID burning of the core boards (aka: I'm lost here).
Feel like a chump diving in to try to answer ONE question, but I'm strictly MB64/MIDIMon. ;)
Compyfox- That should be the header type crap which gets blown into the PIC when you initially program it. I guess it's mainly in multi-processor boxes where they need to be distinguishable or link to each other. No matter where you get the kits or parts, I personally would recommend grabbing or building a simple board to program the PIC18's for stuff like that, if you don't already have one. The JDM is about as simple as it can get. I may have a curse on me or something, but I've mangled a couple MIDIBox PIC's by screwing around with the app (in the actual source code) and getting them to where I couldn't re-dump a good app over MIDI. The only option then is to rewrite the bootloader and start over, which takes about two minutes if a JDM is hanging around. Otherwise, you may be taking or sending it somewhere just to get that back in it. The instructions for the programming procedure are pretty simple too and well documented. If you try to kill your computers on a regular basis, you may even want to go a few dollars up to one of the multi-programmers that does a wider range of chips as well as the PIC18. I built a "Willem" programmer a while back that does most BIOS chips and some of the old synth and drum machine EPROMs too. People have started mass producing those now, and they're all over eBay.
Hopefully someone will show up for the other questions soon, but we're all on different continents and crap. ;D
Good Luck! (and welcome)
George
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Smash,
Thanks! Wasn't even aware router bits got that small (must be machinist stuff). I already hooked up with a whole box of .033" (#66?) carbides from a place that someone in the PCB Yahoo group turned me on to. He's at http://toolsandtunes.com/ and also is known to have weekly eBay auctions which end early on Monday mornings. If anyone in the US needs some, he's nice as crap and I had them in a couple days. They're the really solid industrial ones with the beefed up shanks, label rings and a hard plastic storage box. They were only 12 bucks or something. I think they're resharpened industrial surplus or something.Â
I had a thread on the Yahoo group and was told not to use the burrs by all but one person. The burr idea was something I read in a usenet discussion, and it wasn't regarded as a bad idea by some people who seemed to know what they were talking about, plus as I mentioned, the one I had been using the past couple years cut quite well. All I can figure is that there are differences in the diamond textures or cutter shapes. I do run at a really low speed in my press, so maybe they do well at the higher speeds everyone recommends for PCB work. I emailed the seller twice over a couple weeks, to see if he wanted me to send any back (he has a guarantee), but I've gotten absolutely no response. I'll wait in case he's gone for the holiday or something, but I'd feel foolish if I left him a positive, and with around a hundred eBay purchases, I've never had to leave anyone anything neutral or negative.
BTW- I'm planning to build a small press exclusively for a roto tool, and will probably get another one just for that. I also had a thread in the PCB group about what the more quiet rotos were. On high speed, mine sounds like a swarm of bees (not too fun for 2 or 3 hundred holes). The only specific recommendation was a really old, discontinued Black & Decker, and the guy said that there may be better ones now. If anyone's owned or heard a few different ones, I'd be interested.
                                - Thanks!
George
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Yeah, this is actually worse than flicker. I've got one that pretty much stays on.
I'll double check the clocks. There could be noise or a short on the actual LED line too. It's a standard 595 D.Out setup. It's funny, I knocked out all the pain in the a** layout and construction stuff on this board really quick and it all worked, but then I proceeded to make every simple careless mistake I could find on the small stuff. ;D
-Thanks as Always!
George
---News---> Could be an app thing. ??? I just dumped the D.Out buttons test app and got no LED mess, plus the light wasn't coming on until after the MB64 app init. I'll check the files to make sure I don't have something set to toggle an LED, etc. I thought it was a fresh MB64 hex file.
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All the buttons work, but it's got some really nasty jitter on them (I do have all the input pin and data links pulled high with the 10k's).
-------oops! Actually, they're not all pulled up! :-X
Found a bunch of switches with no resistors and solved my jitter problem.
TK or anyone else- Is there a "usual" cause of one or more LED outputs that reverts to high, or that flicks on periodically when there is circuit activity elsewhere?
I've got one on this, but I've seen it on a few other occasions.
                                              -Thanks!
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Thorsten,
After lots of unnecessary desoldering and breadboarding, I got this worked out last night, but it was 5am and I was too tired to post. :-\
The 595's turned out to be healthy and happy, and I didn't have to remove any. I ended up finding a solder short between the datalink from IC 2 to 3, which was touching one of the output pins to an LED. I've also got several "ground pours", which are on isolated islands, and I found one that had NO jumper taking it to the rest of the plane. Then of course it also had the resistors for about 5 of the LED's linked to it, so they were all hanging open with no return path.
                                                                                                  :-[
The board is cool looking, but it's a mess "route-wise". It's arranged for a 40x2 to sit right in line with 4 vertical sets of knobs, lights and buttons, so I should get to play with some MB64 screen layout tweaks that somebody else might find useful. My board is double-sided, but I was too lazy to rearrange my traces to get everything routed, so I just attached holes and jumped them on the bottom. It also had a bunch of traces right on the edges, which didn't transfer well, so they had to be jumped too.
After I got the lights going, I went ahead and connected the D.In circuit. All the buttons work, but it's got some really nasty jitter on them (I do have all the input pin and data links pulled high with the 10k's). Looks like I'll be dealing with some of the same messy board crap on that one, so it may be a few days before I can play with my new toy.
                                                                                               :'(
                             Thanks again for the help!
George
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Fx3_hdrive-
I've been meaning to reply. I have noticed now that they do NOT appear to hold up as well "shape-wise" as the good coated tips I have, but they are cheaper and easier to get, plus you can make weird shapes.
I wasn't taking as good care of the nice ones, so they are a bit crusty now, but they're still sharp. I've got a couple I haven't opened yet. The copper solder coats are holding up just fine, now that I know the procedure, and they're not hard to regrind.
-George
PS- I may be grinding them a bit too sharp. I've never bought a copper tip as sharp as what I'm making, so maybe that metal is better suited to chisel points,etc. I wish I could make something shaped like a hammerhead shark for heating a row of IC pins at the same time.
                                                                                       ;D
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Man, thanks from me too!
I was just looking at those pictures of the Multicomp switches, and it looks like they've got two of the styles I have here, that I wasn't able to figure out the caps for. DigiKey doesn't do a very good job of describing all the cap dimensions for compatibility.
Anyone know where you might get that stuff in the US?
-George
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Thanks Thorsten!
I grabbed a folder with the MB64 source & hex in it when I dumped the app into the PIC. I'm not sure how many SR's I had it set for, but I checked it with my first 32 LED board (also has it's own 595's), and all 32 LED's worked with that app. Both boards have the same number of D.Out registers and the same 1-4 IC chain, so the app should be OK.
Does the additional unused (165/4051) chip thing sound like it could affect the select lines? Or, could there be any affect from the route that the selects take from chip to chip? It's all parallel and they are all getting the two signals from the core, but there are different lengths involved.
One final look at it last night, and it looks like I can yank the data line to the last two IC's and rewire it to a breadboard circuit with a new 595 to make sure that there is a good signal coming off pin nine of the 2nd chip. Most of the chip to chip lines are jumpers rather than traces. Of course that will temporarily make for even more unused chips on the power and clock lines, but the max will only be 8 or 9 altogether with the 165's.
-George ???
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Hi again,
I know this is asking for a big fat "I told you so", but I'll throw it in here anyway-
I just built a compact board that I want to use to work on some MB64 apps. Everything but the Core and the LCD are on one big, double-sided, crowded board. The D.In (165) chain is 3 chips long with the last output pulled high. The D.Out (595) is 4 chips with the last hanging open. The A.In is only one 4051. They've all got the necessary resistors and the supply and ground pins for each IC have been checked.
Now the weird stuff. I threw all the lines on a single 5x2 pin header. It's got ground, 5v, sclk, rclk, a line to the 595's, a line from the 165's, a line from the 4051, plus the 3 mux lines. The shift register clock/latch lines are jumped in parallel from chip to chip (595's and 165's). They all check as solid connections, all linked back to the main header. The IC to IC connections for each chain have also been double checked. Now the dumb part. No sockets. Everything went directly to the board, but was heated as briefly as possible with a low watt iron (23w maybe).
Problem-
Looks like the last two 595's are not cooperating. I figured to be safe and check a chain at a time, so I went for the LED's, and only used a five pin cable from my core (at J8) which covers the D.Out data pin, the clock lines, and Gnd/5v. The other chips are onboard and powered up, with the unconnected 165's still riding the clock/select chain with the 595's, but I don't have them, or the 4051 sending anything back right now. For right now, I'm using a button board with it's own 165's, that I already know works.
When I power up the core, I get the first four LED's of the 3rd shift reg. on solid (p.7,6,5,4), as well as the fourth light on the last register (p4). They stay on, and the other eleven outputs for those chips don't work. The first two register's lights all look OK.
I know swapping the last two IC's is the obvious solution, but needless to say, it's a bit harder to do in real life. If TK, or anyone who knows enough about the serial chain or those IC's, can think of anything that may cause that type of behavior, it would be a big help. I think I'll lay off it a day or two to get my nerves back.
The individual out pins to the anodes have all been checked, and the cathodes all hit the resistors to ground (470ohms in my case). I don't see any obvious shorts on some quick checks (definitely not shorts to 5v or Gnd), but I guess there's a possibility. I also guess the 3rd shift could be f**king up the 4th one, so I'll pull that first if I have to. I don't know if there would be any downside to having three stray 165's on the clock and power lines if they weren't connected to the core. I also don't know how easy it is to cook a shift register by soldering directly to it (well, maybe I do now).
                    Thanks for reading all this crap if you did!
George
PS- I know I probably should have stuck the core circuit on there too and soldered the 18f directly to the board as well, but I wouldn't want to do anything "stupid".;DÂ Â Â
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Mike,
The 316 is by a smaller company over here called "Speck". It was sort of a budget attempt by them, and was made as a supplement for stuff like the 16 channel Mackies,etc. I doubt it's really easy to find, but it doesn't have highpass/lowpass filters anyway. I hope I didn't give the impression that it's for sale. That's one of the things I actually like. I found a picture here if you were wondering-
I doubt the 12R would be worth sending there. I was advertising it in a trade paper here for a while, and brought the price down a couple times, but got no calls. The last time it was $150, which I thought was good for it's "studio use" history. They were going on eBay for around that, up to over a couple hundred, and that was with people expecting to pay shipping and all with it. It's also the original black style. The majority of them are the newer gray colored ones (not quite as cool looking). I'll probably end up getting rid of it on eBay, but I've never tried to sell anything on there before.I have a feeling you can find one (or something like one) much closer to where you are, for less money overall, but this one should be here a while. Maybe someone more experienced could verify whether it's a hassle to get something like that over there from the US.
                             - Take Care
George Â
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Selfservice,
I think the hardware idea has come up here before, and the consensus was that it can only work the other way around (lin to log) with resistors. :'(
Maybe TK or someone would know if you could get a more "software cooperative" version of an audio log pot by adding something. (?)
George
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it will be visible once you type the "rats" ("ratsnest") command.
Also, I think it will disappear again for some reason when you close or quit.
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damn... so pretty...  :(
It does look tasty! ::)
Is that the first of it's kind? Seems I've seen many different blues on blacks (maybe not that exact color).
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the keys are from an old cherry pc keyboard. I think most newer keyboards have different buttons which are not usable. the old mac keys should work though.
Cool! Yes, I think the old beige Mac boards all have them (beige G3 --> way,way back classic)
mine had all individual alignments too, but I used same types of buttons for every row in my seq. just had to adjust the mounting height... as for labelling, I've sanded them until the original labels disappeared. new labels are done with letraset (abrasive letters for pcb design) and 3 layers of varnish.Man, great to hear that! I've got plenty of Macs, plus a big black electric typewriter board. I really like that old "chunk,chunk" feel of those solid keys. I've got six already on a test board here. They do all look like they're designed to snap into some sort of framework, and they sit pretty high. All the ones I've dissected are locked into metal frames with their plastic push tabs. They've only got 2 pins, so some may need glue if they're just board mounted.
I'm also really glad to hear that you can take the surface down and re-label. Solves a lot of the mystery for me. :D
PS- If anyone goes for a Mac board and keeps the labels. I learned the hard way that the top row of function keys were mounted sideways.
-George
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hmm, are plated tips better? or do they errode as fast as normal copper ones?
I thought some were iron, but I'm not sure. I've got some really nice Wellers here, but the package doesn't say. It looks as if the "immediately coat after grinding/cleaning" thing is going to make them about equal. Plus, you can get weird shapes and re-sharpen. I'm thinking of doing a wide flat one for board tinning out of these worthless fat pyramid tips I've got. I did use one of the plated tips, plus both my rework station's tips are plated, and everything I've used looked equally dirty. I usually clean during soldering with a sponge and flood the tip before turning it off. The plated stuff may just look dirty (not sure), but the coppers were unusable. The newly coated coppers seem just as good as anything I've had and the coating seems to stay on them even with a good wiping.
                                Good Luck
-George
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Mike, I believe I may have seen them in the audio section at epanorama.net. There was a whole section on a DIY mixer that was extremely modular (I think you could use most of the circuits as stand alone).
I know it's not the DIY thing you're looking for, but I bought a 16 channel, 3 space Speck parametric years back, which was made as an add-on for the new generation of compact 16 channel boards with limited EQ (Mackie). Mine is a cheaper one that never quite caught on. I think it's the 316. It's unbalanced i/o, but most of those boards use TRS insert jacks anyway, so you're already UB. There was a more expensive balanced version out later. It adds a nice smooth sound to some of that "basic" gear. Vince (Speck) seems to have a pretty good reputation for his compact analog circuits, but it's a bit pricey for me. I'm really big on highpass myself, and had considered adding passive filters to the bottom of that with toggles, but I can usually knock out the LF somewhere else anyway (I don't do live sound). That thing only has freq. and boost/cut for three bands per channel.
BTW- I've also had a blackface Alesis Studio 12R sitting around here that I've been trying to sell since the beginning of time. I had been using it just for the 8 mic pre-amps, with d.outs to an optical converter, but I replaced it all a while back with a pre-amp/lightpipe combo. The 12R only has the high-low shelf you're talking about. There's also a VLZ Mackie here, so I've got way too much of the same crap.
-GeorgeÂ
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;D I really like it,.... the keys are pretty cool!!!!
Same here!
Are those new, or from a computer keyboard? I was talking to someone here about the computer keys. I'm using some old keys from a Mac II (ADB). They're all individual momentaries. I've wondered about sanding down the slightly concave surface to kill the labels and figuring out how to re-label them.
-George
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I think I made some headway with this last night. I may have been waiting too long between the grinding and soldering stages, and allowing something to happen to the tip. Someone in the PCB group grinds his while it's hot.
:o
Last night I ground the tips in the press and smoothed them back up afterward. I then screwed one onto the iron and carefully wiped the tip with a paper towel wet with ferric chloride to eat whatever might be on the surface layer (not sure that's a good idea). I waited a minute, and twisted some steel wool around it to clean it off. I immediately smeared flux over it and began heating it up. I started touching the solder to it before it was hot enough to melt, and as soon as it would melt, I was able to "paint" the whole tip with solder. Two of them were cooled down and put away with the solder on them, and the third, I was able to use the rest of the night, being careful to keep it clean and coated.
:)
PS (el-bee)- The pure water sounds good. I'll switch to that. From the recommendations I've gotten, it sounds like the copper tips are solid all the way through, so you're just ending up with the same surface, as long as it's smoothed out well. I've got good plated tips here too, and I'm careful not to grind them or anything.
                              -Take Care
George
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Wisefire,
My points are fine. I can get them as sharp and shiny as I want, but they just get dull and brown/black right after they heat up the first time, and they don't keep that clean solder coated surface, where I can wipe it across the tip while soldering, or before turning it off to protect it. :'(
-George
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I'm lucky my general purpose iron (Ungar) can take some easy to get copper tip from RadioShack. It comes in a three pack of some crappy dimensions, but they can be easily ground.
If you didn't catch the old thread, I *think* it's this-
http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg31608#msg31608
A search turned up some weird variant with missing posts, but that should be the tip grinding part.
I still think there's a trick to retaining the quality. I think I'm getting it smooth enough. If people are grinding with files, this has to be at least that smooth. I do remember a usenet post involving the heating/coating of a plumber's flux and solder with a propane torch or something (higher melting point). I can't remember if it was agreed upon as a good idea though. I may check the Yahoo PCB group, if it's not too off-topic. That place has been like grand central station lately, with many well informed responses. If I can find any good info, I'll return it here.
I get the "blunted" tips too. That's when I usually re-grind.
Any additional tips here would be welcomed. (no pun intended ;))
-George
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.... you been watching the Hitchhiker's Guide by any chance? ;D
Shutting off an encoder?
in Testing/Troubleshooting
Posted
Hi,
I've got a couple JLCooper devices here with overly sensitive jog wheels (really dangerous for tracking). I think they both use regular 3-pin encoders.
What would be an easy and safe way to toggle them off when not needed? (ideally, maybe even with an LED indicator)
-Thanks!
George