smashtv

I don't think so.....His LCD requires a negative contrast voltage to work...... Whoop foot in mouth! I can't/don't relate the alias' people use here with my customers.....I seriously doubt you could load MIOS with any defect in the bootloader, but the chip could have an unrelated issue that's corrupting things. I have run across a few pics with bad I/O lines, so know that a partial failure is possible. There are a few other things that can cause these symptoms: Timebase/crystal issues- sometimes if the crystal is wrong, or the capacitors for the crystal are wrong, or you live under a radio broadcasting tower the clock on the CORE can get way funky. Usually when this is happening the CORE will only start up one out of many tries...(and only if you hold your mouth right/planets in alignment/etc. ;) ) Power supply-are you using the power supply section on the CORE or an external supply? If you feed the CORE with a power supply with very much "ripple" (a small amount of AC voltage leaking into the DC power) it will act very strange, with some extra gibberish on the screen. If it is an external supply we'll jump off on the topic of how to measure ripple and figure out if it's within acceptable limits. Yes. As long as you are sure there is no chance of an intermittent connection this rules out the display and cable as cause.I have noticed posts from a few people that had troubles until they uploaded their app several times. Try as I might (with weird settings, etc.) I can't duplicate that issue here. You might try uploading MIOS and the app a few more times, just to see if it decides to play nice. Best! Smash

Dug this up from usenet: One trick you can use with op-amps (and other things with low current draws) is to put two resistors in series between the terminals of a single voltage supply. If the resistors have the same value, then the mid-point will be at half of the voltage of the supply. So, you can take a single 9 volt battery, put two resistors (say, 1 K) in series between them, and call the middle point "ground" (a technically incorrect term, but that's what most people call the zero reference). As far as the op-amp is concerned, you just gave it a +/- 4.5 volt dual voltage supply. In practical circuits, you should add some capacitors between each battery terminal and the new "zero" point to keep it stable during fluctuations in current load. This method doesn't work well for higher currents, but does fine for a 741 op amp. - Mark Sokos (msokos1@gl.umbc.edu) Electrical engineer, computer geek (er, programmer), no-talent bum musician, and perpetual student http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~msokos1: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt FAQ, ISA and other bus info, and schematics (mostly audio). Describes a method I have seen used in consumer stuff to power opamps. Your gear may be designed so that powering it this way will kill it, like if the draw from either pole was way higher than the other..... Best Smash

Wow Note to self--don't post before morning coffee. ;D Sorry about grouchysmash that made that last post, you guys caught a rant that should have been posted separately (and probably worded a bit nicer) :-[ I don't mean to imply that your question about a bad burn on the PIC could not be the source of your problems, It is just very unlikely based on the info we have so far about your box. Since you have a meter give me more detailed info about what's going on and I'll talk you through it, without the stupid american 'tude in the last post, and know that I have a shelf full of MIDIbox parts here to insure that we get your box up and running. ;D (or if you are sick of messing with it my offer stands to send it back, we can -all- learn from figuring out the cause of your specific failure modes and we would help countless future builders by linking the symptoms to the cause of the problem!) I would really look the LCD cable over, an intermittent connection on a data line or a short between data lines could definitely cause this. Let me know everything about your LCD connection please and we'll move on from there..... Best SmashTV

First off, please keep in mind that it's very hard to help you when you spread your questions about the same problem(s) over multiple posts....Did you check the 2x16 using the same cable as the other one? The row of black blocks on all character displays comes when the display is initialized correctly. The black block display at init is built into all HD44780 LCD controller chips, it's not a funtion of MIOS. That said it is possible in some situations for the display to correctly initialize -with the data lines wired wrong-. Wrong wiring on the data lines will cause it to try to display characters, but all the wrong ones. Also a bad or questionable connection on any of the lines could cause this. Is the "strange sysex" merely the MB64 app sending the random data from inputs that are not clamped properly? Seems people are starting to be quick to point fingers lately before checking their own work. I buy 18F452's by the tube, and I pull one from every tube for my own certification. This chip gets a burn test (4x erase, program, verify) and a custom I/O test before I burn any other chips from the lot. That sticker I put on your chip only gets put there after it is verified. I take this effort very seriously because if I don't people could be chasing unexpected issues related to the loader. Trust me, when you cut open that anti-static sealed baby chip tube to get the PIC out, the bootstrap was on there and ready to run. Out of a dozen or so PIC's returned to me as not working/bad bootstrap, NONE have been bad. Not one. That said, I invite you to send it all back to me for a full refund if you are not satisfied. But know that I will troubleshoot it and post what I find here, only to let prospective customers know what was actually wrong so they can order from me without fear. My intent is not to embarass you or question your electronics skills with this, but you called me on it in public instead of privately, so now a private response about this from me would make it seem that I don't care if anyone has success with the stuff I sell. That is obviously not the case.;) Sorry if I am grouchy over this, but I grow weary of people first thinking that my boards/kits are at fault for issues during construction. For every issue posted here, every problem with LCD's, with Banksticks, with Bootloaders, there are at least ten times more boards/kits out there that worked fine first try. Best! SmashTV

Yes! I knew there was more..... ;) I need to re-word this to say "flash once" and add your post to the wiki. Thanks Doc! Best Smash

The whole tool. Very easy to completely customize with MAX. Probably just as easy with PD or the other MAX variants, but I don't know if anything but MAX will allow you to design your own graphics for the faders, indicators, etc. Best! Smash

This would be super easy to do with MAX (http://www.cycling74.com), and you could fully customize it to match the look of your box. Best! Smash

hmmm.....More fuel to the fire: ;D State-machine based programming, where you can develop the Palm ware and PIC ware side by side........ Works a lot like MAX/MSP, your program is built like a flowchart in a graphical environment, without much hand coding....... http://www.generexe.com/ Best! Smash

It sounds like your CORE is working, but just without display. I'm assuming here that you are talking about having the backlight polarity reversed then corrected in your previous posts. Please read my "Character LCD problems?" post Best! Smash

I'll be working on this issue this weekend, It seems to be a roll of the dice with all current Eagle ports trying to open these files from older versions. Best! Smash

Hey all! Sorry I have not had the time to respond to these LCD issues yet, but I'll fix that with one of my usual extended play posts now. ;) On the BG Micro displays: Another quote about contrast/blank display: If you can sweep the contrast control pot from one end to the other and you don't see any change, (even if there is no text on the display, you should be able to see the pattern of pixels with the contrast full up or full down) And you are sure the wiring is correct, Then you -probably- have a display that needs a negative contrast voltage (between 0 and -5 volts, not 0 and +5 like the CORE gives). The link in the first quote shows a decent example of the easiest way to create a negative contrast voltage without a negative rail on your power supply. This works because the current draw/power requirement of the contrast supply is very very small, and there is a wide range of easy to use IC's besides the example given on the site for this. <edit> On backlights: Does your LCD backlight flash then go dark when you apply power to the core? If yes you probably have the "A" and "K" connections reversed, And this condition might be pulling several times the usual power requirement from the power supply. (IE regulator hot enough to burn it's number into your fingertip!) </edit> Sorry I don't have better news.......:-/ Best! Smash

Hi Paul If you want to replace it easily without it costing either of us extra cash, order a sample PIC from Microchip and send it to me (along with the one that is acting up) and I'll burn the bootstrap to the sample, send it to back to you, and run some more extensive tests on the bad one to try to see what is wrong with it. Although there have been no other known "cranky" PICs from that run I might send it on to Microchip if they want a look (to improve their process). They seem to have an almost twisted interest in the failure modes of their chips....... ;) Best! Smash

That's the bad part, nobody does! VAT and other shipment recpt. taxes are a Euro only thing, and there is no way to know what a customs agent in any particular country will value a shipment at when it comes across his hands. I have been shipping small things all over the planet since way before the MIDIbox days, and the VAT laws of each country seem to be open to very wide interpretation. I once shipped a package to Australia that contained a mylar overlay worth around $150usd. The contents weighed less than the packaging (less than 1lb), it was insured for the properly declared value in the customs forms (that were all complete and correct). When it got there he had to pay roughly $50usd VAT to recieve it! :o I really do need to go visit them again, Been many years.....They are only 20 miles or so from me (other side of the city). Very nice people, great deals on rackmount enclosures.....:) My thinking exactly. Paying VAT, international shipping, then local shipping (after the contents is split for the "last mile") on one big box could be way cheaper than all of that for individual shipments. Best! Smash

Yes, I have, but those eleventy-billion options are still staring me in the face too. :) With the huge amount of variations in what people use, I need to zero in on the features that everyone wants. So I ask the question: If I were to carry only one pot in the store, which one should it be? Once I know that I can move on to finding the best quality at the lowest price, or having a run of pots made to spec. Totally open to suggestions here. ;) Best! Smash

Hey guys let me know if I can be of any help with a bulk order for these.... Best! Smash

Cool ! Now I'll rest a bit better tonight. I'm thinking the box was giving preference to what it thinks are low inputs from a DIN (like it should!) Either way you should send Thorsten an email pointing to this thread, I'm not sure he reads here in misc. that often. With it listing one thing for default and actually set for another it looks like he did not intend to release it this way. Your show looks to be from a later era of the Chuck E Cheese stuff than I am most experienced with, but other than the solenoids vs. mac valve blocks, and the NC milled parts it does not look like much changed. ;D Congrats! Smash

Whoop right on! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D sweeet.

You should look at MAX/MSP, with just MAX you could easily write a custom sequencer that would playback your audio, video, and midi control all from the same app, straight off the hard drive (or wired up to whatever custom deck you want to use.) The time consuming part of all this will be programming your shows, the best way I have seen is a set of animatronic type controls feeding your sequencer with the character following live. hehe sorry just random thoughts....... ;) Best! Smash

Heya Paul! Again a total shot in the dark here, but I'm looking at this from midio128.ini: ################################################################################ # Forward Input to Output # If Enabled: if an inputs gets an raising or falling edge, the appr. output # pin will be set to the same new logic level. The output pin # can be controlled via MIDI also # If Disabled: an output pin can only controlled via MIDI # Default: disabled ################################################################################ [FORWARD_INPUT_TO_OUTPUT] enabled I didn't enable this, it's from the unedited release file. I have no idea if changing this will make any difference, but it's worth a shot. Understood. I had the ins and outs confused looking at it the first time... :) Hehe your pics bring back some memories, been many years since I have seen one skinned! The Celebration Station show looked really scary skinned, instead of heavy latex for the shape these have a clear molded lexan shell, with all of the drive boards (with LEDs) and solenoids inside. Really terminator looking without the costume on! :) Best! Smash

Heya Paul! Please bear with me as I learn this with you..... :) While I do know several programming languages (including 6502 and 6809 ASM, but NO C!), I have not had a chance yet to fully wrap my head around MIOS and modding existing apps. I know just enough about MIOS to get myself in trouble! ;) It might not be a bad idea to post your .ini file or a link to it here, just in case anyone else (who might recognize an ".ini" issue) is paying attention. Keeping in mind that I'm a newbie on this also, are you absolutely positive that the velocity of the note you are sending is 7F each time? by looking at this chunk from midio128.ini: [MIDI_OUT] ########################################## # Pin # On Evnt # Off Evnt # Behaviour # ########################################## 1 = 90 30 7F 90 30 00 @OnOff it looks like anything less than full velocity would not trigger the output. Also (without knowing how the lookup table is read) if there are multiple entries for the same pin this might cause it to stall. (again this is pure wild speculation, I have not looked at how the app reads the lookup or what it does with the data) Best! Smash

Whoop I did not intend to hijack the topic, sorry about that....ok first off have you tested without the long cable? It's a shot in the dark but I have seen long cable runs cause dropped notes and the rig will "logjam" much easier, even if it halfway works for slow stuff/low traffic... Quote from the midio page: The software captures all 128 inputs within a period of 1 mS. If the status of an input pin has been changed, the program searches for the predefined MIDI event in a big table and sends it out: This is really really fast, so you must be losing it somewhere on the way in to the PIC, unless there is an issue with something stalling the access of the lookup table/pin map. (I'm not even sure if its possible to stall MIOS this way, I'm not that far into it yet) No. This could be something as simple as a power supply or transformer that is too noisy and causes the PIC to misbehave, and there is always the possibility of a defective part (though working COREs have been built from the same batch of parts yours came from). Do you have any different power transformers you can try to run the core with? Does it ever not want to boot the first time you apply power? Anyone know if a glitchy clock, high-ripple power supply, or defective 5v regulator cause these symptoms? Sorry I present more questions than answers, but I just have not heard of these symptoms yet so I'm just guessing at longshots here........I wish I knew! Anyone else have any idea? Don't worry Paul, We'll get the mouse moving again! Smash

hehe I was going to ask, I'll try to remember not to assume next time. ;) <begin teasing> Welcome to the forgot the last step club! We meet every other week (next door to the backwards PCB club). Sometimes we just put both groups together and have a good old time etching bad (but still useable!) PCBs, inserting PIC chips the wrong way (with the power on), and chain smoking while soldering. <end teasing> ;D I don't have a quick answer for you on this but keep in mind that the minimal surface app is written for a 20x2, so if you run it with a 16x2 you will be missing a crucial menu selection. I'm told it can be easily recompiled to support 16x2....just a heads up....... Could be a bad display....hard to know.I have these sweet Data Vision display here that I stocked years ago for spares for my alesis units (I have long since banished all alesis from my outboard racks). I decided it was time to use one on a box, grabbed the datasheet and started making the cable. According to the datasheet these have a "HD44780 or equivalent" controller/driver chip. An hour later (and a second LCD cable built) still no groovy. Throw it in an alesis unit, still works fine. Cool, no problem, datasheet must be wrong. (Very common when datasheets are translated to engrish) Two more hours later and every possible wiring configuration (within reason) tried, still no groovy, still works in the alesis, and that CORE has no problems driving other displays. moral of the story: some "or equivalent" displays don't work for the MB, probably a timing issue or some other stupid difference (no fault of TK, there are several thousand companies worldwide fabricating LCDs, it's not unreasonable to assume that while most work fine others will have issues due to "or equivalent" engineering.) Personally I would set that display -and cable- aside and find anything with a real HD44780 chip on it before spending any more time with the no groovy one. BTW congrats on getting some sound out of it! I know its been a long effort but you are definitely on the downhill side now. :) Best! Smash

hmmm..... Does the regulator still get hot if you unplug the LCD and run it for a while? Even without the CORE sending any text to the LCD you should be able to crank the contrast pot until you see all of the pixels in the display. If this isn't happening (no contrast) you have VS, VD, or V0 swapped/wired wrong or the display is dead. Having any of these wrong would keep the display from working and heat up the regulator a bit at least. Don't give up on it yet! Best! Smash

Very cool! As a former bear(Showbiz Pizza), mouse(Chuck E Cheese), and dog(Celebration Station) Engineer I'm anxious to see what you are up to......;DYou can post them yourself on the portal's photo gallery, and link to them here if you like, or just send them to me and I'll take care of it. Best! Smash

No, but I have a different workflow than most Nuendo/DAW users, and I don't really need a full control surface for the way I use it. (full explanation below) I do use a small custom MIDIbox to setup and control some of my plugins though. ;) Workflow: Mic->Pre->Fostex HD recorder->Mac(via fostex' ethernet as wav files)->Nuendo(track "sweetening", eq, normalization, test/daily composite mixes, etc)->back to the Fostex(via ethernet as wav files)->Yamaha analog console for mixdown to tape or to stand-alone CD recorder (via analog outputs) This way I never mix anything final in Nuendo, it serves me more as an effects engine that can do some heavy editing if needed. The reason for the extra effort is that while Nuendo sounds great, way better than protools, it still sums everything digitally at mixdown (like all DAWs). Digital summing always sounds bad to me, Kinda like nearfield monitors with plastic cabinets vs. good monitors. None of the DAWs sum your mix as well as a good old analog mixing desk. Every time I have done an A-B test with music mixed to final in Nuendo vs. mixed to final in the analog realm, the difference was staggering. The DAW version was clean, there, etc. but some of the dynamics are lost (most noticably reverb tails). The analog version on the other hand sounds full, clean, musical dynamics and reverb tails intact, with all of the power and punch that you don't realize is missing from the DAW mixdown. ;) Whoop sorry for the topic hijack! Best Smash