smashtv

hehe.....sorry to growl a bit in that last post, but it needed said. :) The DMX module I'm working on will give the MB a standard DMX-512 output, that can be used to control stage lighting equipment. It's the standard used worldwide to control everything from fog machines to dimmer packs to automated lighting fixtures. It's not something the typical MB user would have a need for, but if you play live and use lights or DJ and use lights then you probably have use for this, and you probably want it. 8) It is still in a very early stage in development, borrowing heavily from work I have already done with designs for my production company's use. It is AVR based instead of PIC, but AVR's are easily self-programmed in circuit if you design the hardware right, with no programmer or even bootloader required. After the first rush on boards I plan on dividing my tinker time between the DMX module and full Mac support for the MB, assuming the board/kit issues are resolved. I would also love to do something with digital potentiometers on the MB, so all things analog with knobs can be controlled. I can see an old Bandmaster amp with full MIDI preset control, or a small motorfader box laying on my live mixer that controls the subgroup VCAs, the aux sends, AND the effects in my outboard rack......Sweeeet....;D Comments? Smash

Ok, fine. It bothers me. I have spent countless hours working over the US layouts, buying parts that I don't even need for my MB projects just to make sure they fit the US layouts, talking with Mouser in order to get them to stock certain parts needed, all for a FREE project. Only for you to come along and ask me for my orderlist before it is released to everyone, so you can sell kits. And that's just me, not anywhere close to a fraction the amount of time Thorsten and others have in this FREE project. Dont you think Thorsten will think twice about releasing anything new when he knows someone is selling his work without his permission (profit or not)? I personally won't be working on the DMX-512 module again until this issue is resolved, I won't pour any more time into anything that is going to be SOLD by someone else, when I give it up for free. So your persistence in this has already had an effect on development. Take a step back, read the FAQ where it says: Enjoy this for what it is, the last free no strings attached really cool project on the net that is not completely infested with lamers. Don't ruin it. And yes, I'm selling boards and parts at slightly above cost. My costs fluctuate so I have to. Thorsten and I have agreed on all pricing. Thorsten won't accept any money (I tried!, but I totally understand why he won't) so that extra plus some money out of my pocket can pay for proto boards for new modules that others can design. (get your layouts ready, I want to sponsor new modules in development and send test/proto boards made at no cost to the designers after the initial rush on the MB boards when they release). And on that note, Thanks to everyone for the positive encouragement, I know everyone is anxious and I promise we are days away. The parts order lists are done, the proto boards are done, the ordering script is up, all that is left is a bit more testing to be sure that it works right when you build it. There is even a prototype USB board etched and waiting for me to drill and send to Thorsten. When the site opens my address will be there for you to send your PIC for free burning if you don't want to build a JDM. I'm hyped! Tim

Ok, fine. It bothers me. I have spent countless hours working over the US layouts, buying parts that I don't even need for my MB projects just to make sure they fit the US layouts, talking with Mouser in order to get them to stock certain parts needed, all for a FREE project. Only for you to come along and ask me for my orderlist before it is released to everyone, so you can sell kits. And that's just me, not anywhere close to a fraction the amount of time Thorsten and others have in this FREE project. Dont you think Thorsten will think twice about releasing anything new when he knows someone is selling his work without his permission (profit or not)? I personally won't be working on the DMX-512 module again until this issue is resolved, I won't pour any more time into anything that is going to be SOLD by someone else, when I give it up for free. So your persistence in this has already had an effect on development. Take a step back, read the FAQ where it says: Enjoy this for what it is, the last free no strings attached really cool project on the net that is not completely infested with lamers. Don't ruin it. And yes, I'm selling boards and parts at slightly above cost. My costs fluctuate so I have to. Thorsten and I have agreed on all pricing. Thorsten won't accept any money (I tried!, but I totally understand why he won't) so that extra plus some money out of my pocket can pay for proto boards for new modules that others can design. (get your layouts ready, I want to sponsor new modules in development and send test/proto boards made at no cost to the designers after the initial rush on the MB boards when they release). And on that note, Thanks to everyone for the positive encouragement, I know everyone is anxious and I promise we are days away. The parts order lists are done, the proto boards are done, the ordering script is up, all that is left is a bit more testing to be sure that it works right when you build it. There is even a prototype USB board etched and waiting for me to drill and send to Thorsten. When the site opens my address will be there for you to send your PIC for free burning if you don't want to build a JDM. I'm hyped! Tim

Thanks so much for the kind words Thorsten! I have to say that working on the MBHP has been a welcome diversion from everything going on around me, from the Tornadoes to my wife's grandfather breaking his back to finding out last week that my 6 month old son (who loves to sit here on my lap and help dad design boards) needs surgery on his skull (the "soft spots" have hardened prematurely). It gives me more work to concentrate on, since my production company's schedule only requires me about once a week. It's really uplifting to see a community like this, reminds me of the old BBS days. 8) Not trying to lay my sob story on everyone, just wanting to relate why I'm so thankfull to everyone for something new to read every day, something else to think about.... :) Selling the boards, kits, and programmed Pics won't be a profitable venture for me in terms of money, my costs to produce a board average around $6 per. Running the etch tank and NC drill full tilt will give me an average of 5 boards per hour, so a $7 board makes me a whopping $5 per hour if I keep my costs at $6 by not screwing up a few. Sure there are cheaper processes, but not having to work with all of the usual bad chemicals (I make the boards in my garage), and not being tied to plates or screens so that a change in design can be done in minutes comes with a price. But that will work to everyone's advantage when someone wants to design a new module, get a custom board to mount control buttons, etc. No other process will allow me to take any Eagle file and make ONE board (or many) out of it for less than $10. So naturally that service will be available also, only to Midibox builders, after the initial rush on the module boards is over. I get the same fun as everyone else from tinkering with the MB, but I also have a lot of fun with the engineering and manufacturing of boards. I would however consider my time on the layouts wasted if people start having bulk runs of Thorsten's designs made up. Building some for your friends is one thing, profiteering from someone else's hard work and generosity is another. My production company pays my bills, so the fun, community, and learning is why I'm doing this, and unless the next twister takes me with it, I'm not going anywhere.... :) Have fun! Tim Ellis aka SmashTV

Thanks so much for the kind words Thorsten! I have to say that working on the MBHP has been a welcome diversion from everything going on around me, from the Tornadoes to my wife's grandfather breaking his back to finding out last week that my 6 month old son (who loves to sit here on my lap and help dad design boards) needs surgery on his skull (the "soft spots" have hardened prematurely). It gives me more work to concentrate on, since my production company's schedule only requires me about once a week. It's really uplifting to see a community like this, reminds me of the old BBS days. 8) Not trying to lay my sob story on everyone, just wanting to relate why I'm so thankfull to everyone for something new to read every day, something else to think about.... :) Selling the boards, kits, and programmed Pics won't be a profitable venture for me in terms of money, my costs to produce a board average around $6 per. Running the etch tank and NC drill full tilt will give me an average of 5 boards per hour, so a $7 board makes me a whopping $5 per hour if I keep my costs at $6 by not screwing up a few. Sure there are cheaper processes, but not having to work with all of the usual bad chemicals (I make the boards in my garage), and not being tied to plates or screens so that a change in design can be done in minutes comes with a price. But that will work to everyone's advantage when someone wants to design a new module, get a custom board to mount control buttons, etc. No other process will allow me to take any Eagle file and make ONE board (or many) out of it for less than $10. So naturally that service will be available also, only to Midibox builders, after the initial rush on the module boards is over. I get the same fun as everyone else from tinkering with the MB, but I also have a lot of fun with the engineering and manufacturing of boards. I would however consider my time on the layouts wasted if people start having bulk runs of Thorsten's designs made up. Building some for your friends is one thing, profiteering from someone else's hard work and generosity is another. My production company pays my bills, so the fun, community, and learning is why I'm doing this, and unless the next twister takes me with it, I'm not going anywhere.... :) Have fun! Tim Ellis aka SmashTV

I am working as much as possible on it, but I live in Oklahoma and we just had a tornado come through and level homes less than a block away from me here, so a couple of days of time with the chainsaw are in my immediate future. ;) I'm just happy that the power is finally back on etc. and that there were no casualties this time. I'm pretty sure they will be around $7 per board. My cost floats around $6. (There are way cheaper methods than I use, but my process eliminates all but one of the bad-for-you chemicals and minimizes fiberglass dust, a priority for me since this is a "garage" operation) Later! Tim aka SmashTV

Well, I guess the word is out! :) Paypal, and -possibly- a couple of other forms of payment in the future. I'm still working to get my ducks in a row to make them available, the board layouts I will be using will be slightly different than what is here on the site now (mostly to work well with parts from Mouser). The layouts will be freely available here and fully documented with an order list for Mouser. Now for the big question- Why new layouts? 1. They are easier to etch at home than the current board layouts, with fewer tracks run between IC pins, some spacing changes (less possibility for a short) and fewer jumpers. 2. The parts on the Mouser order list will fit exactly without any extra work. (I have made up Reichelt lists for the new layouts also, but proper fit has not been tested yet) 3. With the new layouts you will be able to make one order from Mouser and get everything but the PIC18F, and I'll be stocking (and programming to order) the PIC18F and the boards. Almost one stop shopping. Again I need a little more time to test and finalize the layouts before they are released, I have built one set and I'm still testing all functionality (I don't want anyone out there spending the time to self etch a board that has an error in the layout), and other test boards will be sent out asap for others to test just to make sure. I will also be programming PICs for those who already have them for free, if you pay the postage both ways. Full parts kits will be available in the future, but I want to concentrate now on making the boards and pre-programmed PICs available, plus Mouser provides quick service. Everyone should order from Mike until further notice, and while I'm not willing to give a specific date that everything will be available, I am doing my best to get everthing together asap. I'll post here when everything is ready, and please post with any questions, comments, or suggestions. SmashTV aka Tim

If you want to avoid drilling the holes you can use a cable mounted DB9 instead of PCB mounted and wire from the board to the connector. It's a lot less headache than drilling holes. Keep that cable short though! Have Fun! SmashTV

Heya X! Mouser has them (part #625-W08G) for 38 cents each, no minimum. Look past the part number, young Jedi..... ;) BTW for those building in the US and other places where Mouser is more accessible than Reichelt, Mouser stocks everything needed for all the modules except the PIC 18F. Have Fun! SmashTV

Without a doubt. I still use the Dremel all the time with the little Dremel drill press http://www.dremel.com/productdisplay/display.asp?sku=212. I still drill a majority of my holes this way (does not make sense to program/align the CNC for a prototype, when you can just hand drill it with the Dremel press in about 10 minutes). A couple of tips for using the Dremel press: Use some thin cardboard, a sheet of paper, etc. in between the board and the flat part of the press, it has a brushed finish that makes sliding the board around difficult without something in there. When using the router bits you can actually let the pad guide the bit into position if you lower the speed to around 7 or 8 thousand rpm. You get less clean holes per bit this way but better accuracy on the holes. It's something I can't really explain but you will see what I mean when you try it. Just don't hold the board super tight so it can move to center up the hole. Turn the depth guage on the press so it takes up the slop in the press. Again you will see what I mean when you have it in hand. The speed and ease of the Dremel press puts my drill station to shame, the "pro" drill station is wrapped in plastic in storage now.....:) BTW my CNC was self built, out of surplus mechanical parts from ebay and other sources and electronic parts from Mouser. It has been an expensive learning experience, and anyone thinking about doing the same should consider buying a milling machine and converting it to CNC instead of building it from scratch. Happy Drilling! :) SmashTV

You can find Drill Bit City's complete line at http://store.yahoo.com/drillcity/. After working with almost every carbide bit on the market, I use 1/32" (.0312") chipbreaker router bits instead of the standard carbide PCB drill bits. They are as good or better at drilling the holes than the good carbide bits, but won't break nearly as easily with sideways force or improper use. They are the perfect size for most component holes, and the larger holes can be made easily by moving the bit around the inside of the hole. Remember that you simply can't do this with a standard carbide PCB drill bit, it will break the first time. I have produced over 50 boards in house now (using only router bits) and I have only used 5 of these bits, including 2 I broke by letting my CNC route to the wrong coordinates. (They don't stand up too well when you try to route a shape into the iron vise on the machine!) :) I get my bits locally but the same bit is at:http://store.yahoo.com/drillcity/chiproutbit.html. While they seem expensive at $27.00US for 10 (they have 5 packs too), they are really way cheaper than anything else.....I only stock/use one size bit now for all of the holes on the board AND routing it to final shape with no tool changes in the middle of the run. Compare that to the 10 sizes of bits/routers I used to stock/use and I'm a happy camper! 8) Also please please wear eye protection, all carbide bits are designed to give the cleanest holes with the tool running @ 21000 to 55000 RPM, and anything carbide at that speed will shatter and fly not just break. I have some wood with bit fragments embedded in it that used to live behind my CNC! :o BTW anything but a carbide bit made for PCB work is a total waste of time. HSS bits from the local hardware store will give you 50 clean holes if you are lucky, and when it does dull and bind it can take the copper ring with it. Later all! SmashTV

Probably not, I thought about trying something like this, and measured for continuity from the fader post to everything on the fader with no luck. The fader post is isolated. So, I looked at the possibility of tack soldering a very flexible wire to the fader post, but with the design of the frame of the panasonic and the length of the throw there would be no way to keep that wire from getting hung up in the belt for the drive. I might be missing a way of modding these faders for touch, so I have some decent close up pics of the panasonic handy if anyone wants a look. Just let me know and I'll post them here. Later all! SmashTV ;)

'sup midiboxers! For those in the experimenting mood who want to DIY instead of buying a keyspan USB-serial, the FTDI chip mentioned in this thread is available on a carrier board (with USB socket) that fits a standard DIP socket. It isn't cheap @ $25US, but it translates RS232 serial easily with no other parts, and has royalty-free drivers for all platforms. See http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/usb232.html for info. Later! ;D SmashTV

'sup midiboxers! For those in the experimenting mood who want to DIY instead of buying a keyspan USB-serial, the FTDI chip mentioned in this thread is available on a carrier board (with USB socket) that fits a standard DIP socket. It isn't cheap @ $25US, but it translates RS232 serial easily with no other parts, and has royalty-free drivers for all platforms. See http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/usb232.html for info. Later! ;D SmashTV

Man I wish..... ;) I just put the meter to a Panasonic fader (just to be sure) and none of the pins have continuity to the fader post. It is one from the Allcorp batch. Later! SmashTV

Cool! I was wondering if I needed to do this, but it would be hard to justify the time considering I have no use for the SID module. Not that the SID is not fun, I'm just at the other end of the spectrum in the way I use MIDI and audio. :) For those who don't know, an editor written in max will run on almost any Macintosh, and with a Windows version of max due out sometime this year would allow for easy cross-platform development for anything related to the MBHP from firmware updates to an easy editor for custom setup of the MIOS. If you add msp into the equation (and route your audio through your mac) you could easily write a custom real-time audio processing setup with a control surface. EQ, delay, reverb, pitch transpose, mic modeling, etc. are all possible and easy. A majority of the VST effect plugins out there were written using max/msp. Let me know if you have any problems writing the editor, I have been in patch cord hell with max since it was an Opcode product. :) Later! SmashTV

I'm still not completely clear on your question, but the easiest way to get from Eagle layout to etched board using a Mac -to print- is to open the .brd file in Eagle on a PC (or with Virtual PC on the Mac), open the "cam processor" option in Eagle, select the layers/options you want, and export -from the cam processor- as an EPS document. Every decent page layout program on the Mac will open and print the EPS at the correct size. So far for me importing the EPS into Pagemaker has produced the best quality prints on the Laserwriters. Good luck! SmashTV

In thousand plus quantity, and it is at it's "end of life" (notice the "[Not recommended for new designs]" statement at the top of the page) Designing with EOL chips scares me! :) Check out: http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/usb232.html It's $25 in single quantity, but it would be much easier to implement (Thorsten would not have to code around it), comes on a standard DIP carrier (not surface mount) and it has royalty free drivers for PC Mac and UNIX. You can practically throw this at any design that already uses RS232 to communicate. I know it's not the low cost solution everyone is looking for, but it would be easy to implement. The easiest USB solution so far has been using the Keyspan adapter, and some (not Midiboxers) are writing thier own firmware for those to customize to thier need. See http://people.omnigroup.com/wiml/soft/pic/keyspan.html for info on "repurposing" these interesting little things. Later all! SmashTV

I care! Thanks for the great tip. I have to do walkthrough type tutorials on a couple of non-midibox projects soon, and this method will make that so much easier. Thanks! :) SmashTV

The best price I have found so far is at http://www.phanderson.com/ PIC18F452-I/P, $6.95. I have dealt with him before with no issues/fast cheap shipping, and he specializes in small orders. Factor in shipping/handling and he beats everyone else by at least $3. Later! SmashTV

I'm not sure if it was an A2000 or A3000 Amiga (Video Toaster rig) that I serviced many years ago but it had a switching supply in it. Switchers can be used in any application but the output MUST be filtered to suit. My QSC power amps and Yamaha board have switching supplies in them, but correct filter design makes the noisy power a non issue. Here are some major differences between linear and switching power supply designs: Linears always have large transformers, switchers use small ones. I have rarely seen a normal (+5,+12) linear P.S. with a transformer small enough to mount on the PC board with the rest of the power supply circuit. Linears use large filter capacitors, again usually too large to board mount. Linears throw tons of heat. They are really really ineffiecient compared to a switcher. So if you are looking at the board in the P.S. and it takes AC line voltage in and does not have a transformer that is at least half the size of that board, it's probably a switcher. :) There are exceptions to these rules, but what you find at the electronics dealer or in a finished product will likely meet one of the above descriptions. Switcher P.S. design is a throwback to the cold war tech race, smaller more efficient P.S. designs were needed "for soldiers to carry". Many consider Peter Chou to be the father of the modern switching power supply design, if you are looking at a +5 & +12 from a computer it is either his design or a clone of his design. Unfortunately this design (flyback style) is the most noisy. :) If you can't figure out what you have, Take some pics and let me know, I'll help. Now if someone would help me with some real world knowledge of the filtering......the stuff in the books (I have) just does not cover this. :) Sorry for the long post! SmashTV

Ilmarinen is talking here about how the supply is turned on and off, not the type of technology/design used in the supply. Software power management (press a keyboard key to turn on the machine instead of flip a toggle switch) started with the ATX supplies, But has nothing to do with whether a power supply is linear or switching. The original IBM PC (the first ones) had a switching supply in it, and I doubt that you will find any computer equipment with a linear supply inside (even the old stuff when it was new!) Have fun! SmashTV

Most switching supplies need a minimum load to start up, but this can be as simple as a "ballast" resistor from +5vdc to ground. I usually use a high wattage ceramic resistor for this since it will be releasing quite a bit of energy as heat. The 286 supply is most likely a switcher, they have been used in everything (that can be run on noisy power) since the 70's. I built a board a few years ago that generates PWM to control a pair of R/C Servos, on a switching supply the circuit has all kinds of positional error and the servos "jitter" even when they were supposed to be stopped and holding position. Run the same circuit from a linear, and it works fine. (yes I used bypass/filter caps) About the differences between linear and switcher, this post from usenet says it best: The "ripple in the output" is simply a small amount of AC on the DC output. This is bad, but is a fair trade for efficiency. You can measure the amount of ripple with -most- meters by setting your meter to read AC and checking the DC output. If memory serves acceptable amount of ripple for digital circuits is no more than 1% of the output voltage (1% of 5VDC is .05VAC on the meter). Can anyone confirm this ???? Have fun! SmashTV

Yes! I used a 1N4733 and a 1N4738 in my JDM programmer, and I have a working core module using PICs written on it. Also don't worry about the "A" on the end of the part number, a 1N4733 and a 1N4733A interchange in this design. ;D

Happy New Year All! The 1N4733 is 5.1v, and the 1N4738 is 8.2v. The extra numbers at the end (821, 604) could be batch numbers, date codes, internal manufacturers ID's, etc. There is a pdf datasheet that shows the relationship between the part number and the voltage for all 1 watt zeners here: http://www.glencoe.com/ps/bsee/pdf/1N4733.pdf Since this is my first post I need to say thanks to Thorsten for making such a cool project public, the community of builders here is such a rare find on the internet wasteland these days. ;D