seppoman

good :) well we don't want to expand or change the offset as the middle value should stay at 0V :) This is how it works: The DAC does 0..4V output, "R33/41/P9" give a voltage of around -2V. That's fine and should stay like it is. This way, the DAC output is shifted downwards by half the amount. The only problem is that a passive mixer like R17/R25 does divide the voltages by 2, and that can't be changed by any means. The only solution I see at the moment is solution 2 from my previous post, including the calibration disadvantage. So there's no way to have just some jumpers change the output from 0..10V to -5..5V in one hop, without changing the gain of the OpAmp. S

ouch :w00t: no don't change these, this would destroy the offset :) S

Ok solved... if you sum two voltages through two resistors of same value, you'll get (V1+V2) / 2 as a result.... stupid me... There are two solutions to this problem: The first one (that I'd prefer) is to change the value of R9...R16 to 5.6k, only on the channels that are setup for bipolar mode. This will give you a calibration range of about (+/-) 3.5V to 5.8V. That should be sufficient as a hot fix, isn't too much effort and you'll still have a decent precision when calibrating. The second one: you could exchange R1...R8 for 10k and R9...R16 for 2.2k (on all channels). That would give you a calibration range in unipolar mode from 9.5V to (22V) the maximum the TL074 can give (a bit more than 11V). And the range for bipolar mode would be about (+/-) 2.4V to 5.5V. This solution would preserve the "just change the jumpers if you need some channel in bipolar mode" thought behind this option. On the other hand, it would dramatically increase the calibration range, i.e. exactly calibrating the outputs will get harder because the same angle of turning the pot will have much more impact. So although this will lead to more documentation effort and questions, I'd still prefer to generally suggest the first solution instead of a) having Smash change the contents of his kits and b) making the module harder to handle for the 95% of people that won't ever need the bipolar mode :) I can only apologize for the confusion and this stupid design mistake... Wiki will be updated in the next days. BTW to all SSM2044 builders: The module is designed with this (wrong) bipolar range, so you don't need to change anything on your AOUT_NGs. I guess for proper +/- 5V operation I'll have to try out a few other resistor values on the SSM module, but this will only apply if you if you're using a different CV source than an AOUT_NG. And BTW2: I've just had a short look at the old/original AOUT, and the bipolar mod is the same concept like what I'm doing on the NG (guess that's where I got it from ;)), so this module will probably show the same behaviour. S

Oh. Uhm. Ah. F.u.c.k. :cry: Mine also gives -2.7...+2.7V - Actually it seems I was simply assuming the -5..+5V thing and never really measured it. I was satisfied that the needs of the SSM2044 are fulfilled. Actually, as the NG is out already more than two years, it seems nobody else ever stumbled upen this... I need to think about this for a minute... Changing the gain for the bipolar channels isn't much of a problem, still I'd like to analyze why this is so before I'll give an advice. Sorry for the inconvenience, this is really embarrassing :whistle: S

Right, the "uploader" is part of every successfully compiled MIOS32 project, be it an official one or your own. It can receive uploads via USB or via MIDI. As long as nothing goes terribly wrong you won't ever need a JTAG, but still you could do all your uploads only via JTAG if you want to. As anything you'd upload is in one single package and not split into three parts anymore (like bootoader, MIOS8 and application), every new upload is a fresh start so it doesn't matter which upload method you choose. The big benefit of having a JTAG at hand when you program your own stuff is that you can also use the JTAG to debug/trace what your program does using OpenOCD and either Insight or e.g. CodeBlocks. S

Ok, so you can finally check that there's no connection between the left two pins while the jumper is away, then we can be sure that we can leave the gain/output stage out of the further troubleshooting. As you've tested that the two GNDs of both PCBs are connected, it can't be a GND issue. And even a lower "+/-12V" supply could only cause a wrong offset, not a wrong voltage swing at this point. At the moment I'm out of new ideas - one thing you could do is take a few decent high resolution pictures of both sides of your AOUT_NG and of your whole setup, maybe I/we could see something suspicious. S

I meant to measure there with min and max setting in software, this sounds like you had it on min and measured the extreme settings of the pot? If that's the case, this would be again the -1 V for min, if not, I can't make much sense of these readings yet. S

hmmm. I don't really have an idea what's wrong here. That the unipolar mode works fine shows that the amplifying stage and DAC work fine. The last results show that the offset generation is ok. DAC alone works... The problem can't be on the software side if uni mode is fine, then you change jumpers (and nothing else, i.e. also no changes to software settings etc), and then it doesn't work... I can't imagine what kind of PCB error would lead to this behaviour, and the chances for one person to get more than one PCB with the same kind of error on all 8 outputs is virtually nil. One other measurement you could do is to place only the right jumper (the one where the DAC trace goes to) and leave the left one empty and measure min/max on the left bottom pin (or R17/25). This should give you roughly -2..2V depending on the pot setting. S

Hmm.. well the R33/R41 measurements don't mean much as you only can measure the voltages that are the "rails" of the trimpot. I suppose if you measure these values, you mean you are probing the open resistor pins on the top? R17/R25 having the same values also isn't a surprise as these legs go to the same PCB trace :) But -1..+1V are a bit strange cause that looks like the DAC does only half the usual swing. Can you please remove the jumpers altogether and then measure the very first bottom one of the pins (or "R17/25", that's where they go)? This should give you about -2V and should change if you adjust P9. After that, please measure the upper right pin of this jumper pair, that's the one where the trace coming from the DAC is going to, and again set the box to output min and max value. This should be 0...4V. And you can check if R17 and R25 are both 10k ones (brown black orange) and there's no short or bad soldering around these or the trimpot. S

TL084s are pin compatible AFAIK, they only have slightly different specs but that shouldn't make any difference in this case. So just try them out :) S

there is no "make.bat". the makefile is called "makefile" without extension and you need to type "make" while you're in the project directory to make the project.

removing the GND doesn't work because in this setup, the +/- 12 V have no defined relation to the GND of the other PSU. If you want to use two separate PSUs, you always need to make a (single) connection between both GNDs or strange things will happen (as you've observed). S

Mit Mouser hab ich zwar persönlich noch keine Erfahrungen, aber bei Digikey läuft das so wie Bilderbuchi gesagt hat. D.h. du zahlst kein Porto und keine Bearbeitungsgebühren, wohl aber die Einfuhrunsatzsteuer sowie ggf. Zoll. Wobei man bei Zöllen auf elektronische Bauteile recht beruhigt sein kann. Ich konnte da keine erkennbare Logik feststellen, welche Arten von Waren überhaupt Zoll haben und welche nicht, aber ich habe bisher noch nie mehr als 1-3 % Zoll auf irgendwelche Komponenten gezahlt. Haupt-"Problem" ist also die EUSt, das sind die normalen 19% MwSt. Oft ist der Kram aber auch trotz dieser Steuern aus USA noch deutlich billiger, und der Versand und die Zollabwicklung von solchen Großversendern über UPS oder FedEx geht auch im Allgemeinen ratzfatz und ohne Probleme (im Gegensatz zu Postsendungen von kleinen Firmen oder Privatpersonen). So, das war mein allgemeiner Senf, brauchen tu ich leider nix :) S

well that depends how you understand "can handle CV inputs". btw, the MB6582 is in no way different featurewise to the "modular SID", it's just all the necessary modules in one neat and convenient package, and it has all the connectors you'd also have with a modular MBSID. The thing is, MBSID provides 5 pot inputs that can be routed via the KNOBs menu, but these inputs have to be expanded a bit to accept standard V/Oct signals. As it is, it only accepts voltages between 0 and 5 Volts and it doesn't have any protection against overvoltage etc. So you need to add a little OpAmp based circuit to scale down the inputs to an acceptable voltage. This is no magic, but strictly speaking a regular (non-modified) MBSID/MB6582 can't handle CV inputs. I don't know if someone already did these mods and uses CV inputs on a regular basis - I think it should be possible but you'll need to setup the KNOB parameters of all your patches where you want to use these inputs and I'm not sure if there is a way to trigger note on/off from these inputs, i.e. if you can have a Gate input. And the other question is, does it really make sense to have CV inputs at all? I mean you've got all the LFOs, Envelopes and all internal routing possibilities you could ever imagine, i.e. using external EGs or LFOs doesn't make much sense in my opinion. S

10 uH is correct, TK didn't publish an updated schematic so far. BTW there's also a little typo in the order list, the Reichelt part number of the 10nF capacitors is "Z5U-2,5 10n", not "Z5U-2,5 100n" S

Yes, please read the first post of this thread S

oh come on guys, I've explained what a "big order" is some posts ago :yes: Anyway to end the questions, I've posted the remaining shipments this morning and here's a list of these people (i.e. all others should hopefully already have received their PCBs by now): rosch grizz modularkomplex fuzzylizard Wilba Jack Antix bugfight (benuron, reposted because of changed adress) Again, I'm really sorry that this bulk order took at least 1-2 months longer than necessary, but there are periods in life where Midiboxing has to stand back a bit behind other more important things (if I had known a few things beforehand that would happen, I'd probably have postponed the whole bulk order by a few months). But finally all orders are out now and soon everything's gonna be fine :hug: Happy soldering, Seppo

Yes.

Uhm yes, update, better :whistle: I've been away for one week and since then there has been a very busy phase including spontaneous business trips etc... so I'm sorry to say the last few shipments haven't been posted yet. But yesterday I've finally managed to prepare these last shipments and I'm going to post them either today or on monday, so the waiting should be over soon :) to all others, if you have ordered only a few PCBs and still didn't receive anything, please PM me and we'll try to find out if something went wrong. The "small orders" all have been posted weeks ago. S

short notice: Joeribl made a public Reichelt shopping cart for the 2164 module, thank you :) although somehow 4 pieces of an 1 MOhm trimpot slipped into this cart. I removed them from the cart and made a new one, so everything's fine now - just in case people have already used this Reichelt cart to prepare an order, please check you're not ordering these 1MOhm trimpots. S

uhm. oh. you're right, they are in fact 8 mm :whistle: I guess I mixed something up in memory because I think back then when I designed the board someone pointed me to these 10mm parts and said it would be sad if they didn't fit in. I've just checked the Eagle file and 10 mm will fit but that's quite the maximum. If somebody wants to use these caps, it might be a good idea to use slim IC sockets and/or mount the trimpots slightly tilted (or even solder the SSMs directly without socket). But there'll be a way to do it :) S

yes, as I've said before there's not one single cap on this board where the type really matters. So in other words, use what you can get. Also, ceramic isn't better or especially preferable in these regular situations, I've just stated that as a fact that with the regular/cheap/usual cpacitors, the lower (pF...) values are usually ceramic while the higher (100nF and up) are usually foil types. The foil types often come in better tolerances but as tolerance doesn't really matter, both types are fine :) S

yes right. usually the larger values aren't ceramic but foil types (that's not bad because they usually have better tolerance). But on the VCA board there are no caps that could degrade or influence sound quality. The worst thing that could happen because of cap tolerances is that the VCA speed/snappiness would vary a little bit between channels. For the resistors I'd recommend to use the metal type because of the better tolerance. As they're only slightly more expensive and no overall cost factor, you'd rather have the volume/gain levels matched as good as possible instead of saving 20 cents :) S

the Reichelt Styroflex ones are about 10 mm, too. I didn't want to make the PCB larger than necessary so it's a tight fit, but not impossible to mount (see the pic on the Wiki page).

The BOM is online on the WIKI now :)