Artesia

Hi.. Back again with another uninvited idea.. i just let those walk streight through my mind and out onto the keyboard; where mayhem ensues.. Quick forethought: (assuming not implimented) - Internal ADSR's/Envelopes, LFO's & 'Passive channel' Key Trigger added to the midibox CV ...pretty please ! :) Right, well getting to the point.. ever found yourself sitting there when programming up a patch on your oberheim matrix 1000, rompler or sampler.. and wondered what it would be like to have a ARP, Moog or other choice of filters saved right in there with the preset with no external rewiring & improvisation & headsratching later.. as to how you got that sound working ? Well one possible way i thought around this matter, was for instance to have a Triggered ADSR envelopes function built into the Midibox CV (im assuming there isnt atm..).. and have the box store the presets for these various envelope settings in bank & presets in an identical fashion to which most synths store theirs. This way the box could 'piggy back' on the synths midi channel & listen for the program changes (or send them).. and adjust the filter settings (or choice of) ..accordingly. and of course quite importantly, listen for the note event trigger to apply the filter ! Then of course, it would only make sense to also modulate the Amplitude/volume envelope too.. to complete the outboard filtering process. Noting the fact that modern or just plain advanced synthsizers have no lack of polyphony, complex source sounds &/or routing possibilitys.. they almost always seem to get stuck on the other -major half- of synthsis when it comes to the choice of filters & filter character to shape the signal... With a pallete of choice which is nowhere near as diverse to shape your sound... (often the filter behavior defines & almost souly identfys one synth from the next) So why end up collecting a ton of synths to get the use of their various filter characteristics ..when you could Take your choice of synth & piggy back that all important section onto the back of it ? Get bored of using that synth under the filter stack.. just switch it for another one & change the memory stick :) And what about Synths which are multi-timberal &/or use different filters/filtering rates on sepperate audio chains; before combining them into one signal ? Well in the case of the Roland JD990 for instance, there are 8 individual sub outputs which lend themselfs to this use streight away.. Then in the case of the matrix 1000.. There are 6 individual outputs from the filters before they are mixed into one signal ..they can be un-bundled & used individually :) Also With such a powerful filter bank piggybacking on a synth patchset ..the synth at the bottom of it all wouldnt even nessursarily have to be anything special.. anything which could spit out basic waveforms (tri, saw, sqr.. etc) will do... Also something for thought.. and this gets ever similar to something else i probably once meantioned... how a about being able to save preset information for external effects, like chrousing, reverb, delay... etc ? ...to allow you to create your choice of mutant sound creation device ? :) ...which for all intents and purposes would become one whole instrument ..rather than a tedious collection of small ones you have to tinker with ad-infinitum.. to re-find 'that sound' again.. :) Infact (aside of adding Envelopes & LFO's to the CV box.. pretty please !) ...that really calls for a sepperate 'Patch Vampire' box to do the piggy backing & settings recall.. And at this point maybe this 'patch piggybacking' is a function which is best integrated into the 'universal synth editor' ? ...Tho at the end of the day its not for me to say; aside of how cool it would be. Note: hmm.. polyphony could be a real pain.. to correctly 'key trigger' external filters... except the Matrix Mono (guitar) mode could be enabled to spread the 6 individual voices across 6 channels 1-6 ..which could be triggered for polyphony externally.. regaining complete external filter syncronisation... So i guess at least the polyphonic Matrix and Monophonic instruments are good building blocks for such sonic butchery :) Note #2: I really shouldn't 'think aloud' on message boards ..tho the penny just dropped on something else.. which negates some of this... The CEM3396 in the Matrix does indeed seem to be controlled by analog voltage signals for the VCA & VCF.. amoungst other things. assumed that it was all digital controlled ..nope. In which case (thinking aloud again...) the CV drive signals for this synth can be hijacked with opamps, 3396 inputs jacked up & used as control signals for those external filters. negating the need for external filter recall & control ..as in the case of this synth ..at least the basic internal envelopes & settings would be saved.. Hmm guess that ones up for serious modifycation then.. Short of building a entirely MIOS controlled 3396 synth (http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=midibox_3396&s=matrix+1000)... that'll be the weirdest sounds coming from one of those chips for a while..

fair comment, i'll open a new thread if im going to group buy ...i may well buy in the minimum ammount of stock anyways... On the Analog devices point i was just wondering what those chips where for ..not been following all the threads on the board. Thanks.

hmm... right ..looks like i shall buy 25 of each of those THAT chips in about a months time, if peeps are interested.. spares will be available. Also contact me if you definately want any ..as ill add them to the order & go up a 2 multiple if theres that much xtra interest in one chip (or another).. Btw could the original bulk buyer pass on the details for the supplier ..so i may make a purchase here from them within the uk. Thanks. Also, whats the analog devices chips going to be for ? :) Ta.

Damn... Shame i didnt spot this thread earlier ...im in for some chips if theres still the opportunity...

thats downright cool :) I think that solves my lack of entusiasm for finishing my two midibox synth projects ...im just going to box them up with minimal controls & lcd ...and just build this as a control surface :) This is definately the next thing ill be building from here :) Only one niggle tho, although the layout of the knobs is logical ...my mind keeps on wishing for a more naturally symetric appearrence. so i'll be mirroring one of the screens control knob layouts. All said tho.. Excellent work !

somebody seriously needs to sponsor tk ;)

Heres the clipping in question: ...hmm that one seems awfullly familiar ...wonder if the maker did indeed post his results on the board ? ...in anycase ..hey there anders kling ...n' thanks for spreading the word :)

The next time you go into WH Smiths ..or your local Vendor of magazines.. Take a quick look at this months Future Music Magazine for a picture of a fully flegged MBSID that one of the staff built ! Picked up a copy at random when in an airport on my way out on a 2 week Corfu excursion... and spotted it inside ..whats the chances of that ? :) ..Tho yeah, Obviously good work TK :) Ucapps has found itself on the news stand :)

http://www.deepsonic.ch/deep/htm/gearhist.php more pics of synths with their circuits showing... quite supprising how little there is of actual DSP/Signal Circuitary in modern synths.. Tho thats the digital age for you.. Heres what youll find there: Access Virus C Casio VZ1 Emagic Unitor8 Emu Esi2000 32MB v.3.02 Emu Morpheus Evolution EVS1 GEM WS2/II Expander Kawai K5000S v.4.04 Korg DS8 Korg Wavestation/SR (2) Peavey PC1600 Roland D50 mit Musitronics Roland JD800Sequential Prophet 2002 SK XK-322B Soundblaster Audigy Waldorf Microwave XT 10xPoly v.2.33 Yamaha AN1x Yamaha FX900 (2) Yamaha TX7 360Systems AM16 Akai ME30PII Atari 1024STE mit SM124 Behringer Exciter Type F Boss BX16 C-Lab Human Touch C-Lab Steady Eye Emagic Export Emagic Notator SL v.3.21 Emagic Unitor2 Emu Esi32 8MB SCSI +OS-Update v.2.0 Emu Esi4000 32MB v.3.01 Emu Esi4000 Turbo 32MB v.3.01 Ensoniq Mirage DSK-8 SN:3029 Hohner HS-1 Kawai GMega (2x) Kawai K11 Korg 707 Korg M1 Korg Wavestation/SR (1) Korg Z1 Roland JX10 v.2.00 Yamaha DSR2000 Yamaha FX900 (1) Yamaha TG500 (2x) Yamaha VSS200 Alesis S4 GEM WS2/II Jomox Airbase99 Kawai GMega LX GEM WS2/II Jomox Airbase99 Kawai GMega LX Korg M1 (2) Korg Wavestation/EX mit SAM1 Erweiterung MAM FB383Quasimidi Raven Max Quasimidi Technox Roland Alphajuno 1 Roland Alphajuno 2 Roland D50 (1) Roland Juno60 Roland JX10 mit PG800 (Programmer) Roland JV35 Roland MKS100 Roland S10 Yamaha FS1R Yamaha SY77 (2x) Zadok SAM1 Roland JX10 - now theres one hell of alot of 12 voice analog going on in there... Hmm.. Got one of those Waldorf Microwave XT's now ..still puzzled as to where the expansion board plugs into ..esp since the newer model on here seems to have an identical board in it. Anyways.. lovely thick, clean sounds out of it; and talk about programmable ..yay :) Moog Voyager - http://www.till-kopper.de/voyager.html (okay.. now the jx10 looks light on components..) (and the moog is monophonic..) http://www.till-kopper.de/synthies.html Various synths, particularly obscure ones... Including the rather -intregueing- Honer Adam workstation from the mid 90's http://till-kopper.de/hohner_adam.html http://www.hollowsun.com/vintage/ppg/index.html - pictures of & waffle about various vintage synths. And finally (probably not tho...) The Quite nutty innards of the Big Daddy Waldorf Wave... http://www.unofficial.waldorf-wave.de/wavetech.html'>http://www.unofficial.waldorf-wave.de/wavetech.html http://www.unofficial.waldorf-wave.de/

Zcen & Mute... Hardware mute maybe pretty redundant if volume settings can be spun into theoretical silence pretty much instantly.. It may however prove extremely useful as a Hardware 'Panic Button' ..for instantly killing all audio on a stand alone, user interfaceless box. Zcen is a matter for technical debate as to weather its useful or not.. it should be left as a jumper option for the end user to decide if they want it / want to toggle it on and off.. Power supplies... For good, noiseless audio.. the power supply rails for the audio section must be sepperate... otherwise a very good circuit.. could just become a mediocre one sonically. Balanced/unbalanced inputs... an opamp can be configured easily to accept both unbalanced & balanced signals.... and provide an analog 'level trim' ..if required.

bionix.. the audio mixing is happening in the analog domain... if analog to digital & digital to analog conversions are desired.. thats another module board that can be built sepperately.. (on general topic: ..crikey, quite afew people working on this one by now too...)

hi, the project is probably going to be prototyped around pga2311 ..with the 4311 as a smaller condensed design later on. I'll try to take the time next week, to test one chip; then come up with the pcb design for a modular pga2311 board, which should comfortably hold 2-4 pga2311 chips.. and would allow cascading for additional channels. With concerns to board layouts, the configuration for chips and opamps shoulld leave the audio signal connections configurable via jumper wires. This leaves configuring the nature of the signal mixing down to the end user ..and should be a streight forward process. Also with small additions, it would be possible to modify the control of the opamps used to turn one of these boards into a midi controlled filter of sorts.. ...there you go tho. From thereon.. if someone would be so kind to provide a small batch of the boards.. people can tinker on with these things, using exhisting firmware to control em'..

Progress has stalled currently... I have all the bits sitting here for the project, summer has been overly fun here.. and iv'e not spent an awful lot of time in the house. Building the project around exhisting firmware is possible & the item will be fullly useable via midi control... however i currently lack the patience to figure out how to program the LCD gui.. maybe someone else is highly proficient at that here ? ..probably take them afew evenings to sort (when the hardware spec is nailed down) ..whereas itd take me several months of getting my head round it all... Will try to make something happen soon.. Time management & appropriate distrobution of enthusiasm has never been a strong point of mine...

Heres an idea for an amplifier project which ,maybe a useful stand alone project (or module) for people here.. Built An amplifier based around the TDA2050 Amp IC as a junk box spares project; to serve as a rear-channel surround amplifier.. and was pleasantly supprised by very, very good sound quality for a £3 ic ! things have come a long way since the first time i played with these devices 10yrs back (i would now be quite comfortable using one of these devices, where i might of opted for a fully transistorised amp) (more details to follow on the project) http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/1461.pdf The TDA2050 is an integrated amplifer chip of a class AB configuration - Various overload & overheat protection options are built in as standard. A very low external component count is required to get it up and running. It is capable of running on single & split rail supplies with a total voltage range from 5 to 50v. One ic by itself is capable of 0.05% distortion in the range of 15-20Wrms; total output capacity is 35wrms with a higher margin on distortion, 'music power' is 50w. Also, two devices can be used in a push-pull configuration to attain a rms output of upto 64w. it would be fairly easy to craft the circuit to drive two tda2050's on a standard mios size module board. The circuit layout could allow for the board to be configured to function as a 32w stereo amp or as a 64w bridged, push-pull mono amp. Also the option to use a single voltage supply (rather than +v 0v -v) could be allowed for; however i personally dont reccomend it (from experience).. as adding the needed 1000uf of capacitance on the output (as required to kill the dc offset).. takes the edge off the fairly respectable performance of the IC. More to follow on this completed project.. Busy here..

I guess people submitting their own versions, based around this 'skeleton concept', so that other people may download & use them.. is fine. (incidentally the original logo was designed using vectors) However i leave the final say on this matter with TK & Anyone else with a little more nameity on what goes on around here than myself :)

ah, right.. btw the later pictures of microswitches lit in a ring fashon are not used in the step sequencer at the beginning of this post. they are for the mbfm & mbsid projects i have been too busy and ill motivated to finish lately.. In the case of that example, i am just using flexable plastic tubing which can be obtained from any fish (pet), garden, car, or hydro store - for pennys. Drop into one such place & get some to experiment with. As for the big round buttons on the sequencer ..they are all mec switches.. with a little mod work in the case of the bigger illuminated ones ..re-read the post for those details (they dont use flexi plastic tubing ;) btw, have thought of picking up some hard plastic acrylic tubing/bar to experiment with.. however most of the suppliers here for it are rip-off expensive.

hi, you may need to adjust the resistor values for driving the leds, you may find that they need a lower one than the defaults in mios ..to get the best from them (without blowing them ;) please, post some pictures.. that would be very helpful

Hi, Yes, quite amazingly the pics.. and the real thing do look very much alike. Which exact switches are you using ? ...i would also advise using ultrabright leds ..the pokier the better. ..and from there up the resistance until its comfortable to look at ..bonus as well - their long term brightness will last far longer this way too..

Well.. i have some further thoughts on the matter.. will elabourate further when i have the time to type it out properly :) Maybe .PDF can be used as a standard format for those of us with access to pro software. 1:1 scale printing can easily be forced within that program. As for design software; i use Xara for everything. it does the job & is currently very affordable from what i hear... certainly not adobe prices ;) freeware... hmm will have to look into that... maybe some other people have suggestions too ?

thanks for the info, glad i ended up putting off finishing this project for a short while.. otherwise it would of been plastered on the front panel for eternity. ..my dyslexic brain obviously didn't come with a spell checker included ;) relase the panel designs... hmm ..well; id like to encourige everyone to make something unique.. tho i guess on direct request i may provide the designs. in anycase it'd be no problem people having the drilling layouts ..that i will probably provide openly :)

hmm... okay... guess im not the only one obsessed with the sounds of the megadrive... time for much reverse engineering... i'll be placing my bets that it is indeed possible to get a ymf-262 to spit out those 'sonic' sounds ;) ..although i do know that some degree of sample playback was used too.. bet the secret lies in the use of a software wavetable - much like thronsten's.. ever heard the sound artifacts when sonic stalls ? ...would seem to point in that direction from what i understand. i guess we should kidnap sega's sound designer & extract his secrets.. with water drip torture if nessursary ;)

hmm.. .on the wavetable synthsis matter.. Artesia kicks himself... just found out that the higher end waldorf synthsizers can indeed load user created wave tables.. and do funky things with them too.. Hmm.. guess thats the next thing on the retro buy list... :)

indeed.. maybe i should keep my mouth shut (and buy every one i can get my hands on - anticipating a huge price rise; dispite how many of them are in circulation (just not for sale generally ;)) ive somewhat tediously listened through every single patch it has built in ...over several days on and off ...hehe ....my ..it's bliss ..and im finally getting an idea as to what 'that oberheim sound is'... unfortunately one of the curtis filter chips went up the wall... as they tend to (buy afew spares).. so that'll be replaced shortly. also volume pot crackled (nothing a little oil couldnt fix ! ;) ...ahh yes, ambient works ..got both of those. as for people like orbital. well, practically everything they did had oberheim splattered all over the show. (whereas two lone swordsmen are 'waldorf' junkies - yup another bit of synth history i want :) additional note: Iv'e been thinking through what to do about having a stand alone synth editor box. As it stands; i will need to edit the oberheim, my casio cz-1000, the roland jd990, eventually a waldorf, ..and maybe some other stuff down the line. Some food for thought for other people; have concluded im just not patient enough to build a dedicated interface for every box that comes along (tho respect to those who do). and will probably build a midibox 64 with a full compliment of controls. Each memory bank in this box will be customised to each synth (multiple 'pages' for complex synths) ..then to clarify what the control surface does in each instance; will build into a little flip open 'suitcase' with a flip-book built into the lid.. each page links to a patch number & has a diagram clearly outlining what the controls do & what the synth topology is.. saves making a new midibox controller everytime a new synth comes along ;) ...tho yet again; respect to those who are patient enough to go all out; as contained within this thread :)

Well.. just bought myself one of these matrix 1000 synths :) i have to say... it's a 'luddy nice sounding bit of analog.. presets alone are sounding pretty good. if anyone wants a bargain polyphonic analog synthsiser which is capable of producing almost every sound under the (analog) sun.. these are probably the ones to go for :) {yes i think they are somewhat undervalued at £150-200 here)

yes, very, very cool widget from MOTU :) Defenitely a marked similarity in concept there; did half notice this when i recently visited the MOTU site when pricing up possible firewire multichannel soundcard solutions... wondered if anyone would make note of this.. and indeed you did :) im currently eyeing up a 828.. matter of funds tho.. (hmm... motorbike - or soundcard ? ..hmm all of a sudden it all seems expensive!) Hopefully this modularly scalable solution, will be abit cheaper ;) ..admittely it wont nessursarily do all the cool things the MOTU's capable of. organisation is not a strong point here.. i will get this project seen to shortly; i hope. most of the nessursary groundwork has already been done by other people previously.. as noted in this post.. so this just leaves making a pcb design for the module.. and then getting to grips with customising a front end, for ease of use. Having said that, essentially it should be possible to have the concept actually working with everything thats already available here... if anyones in a rush for a quick solution... *****UPDATE***** I've been informed of some serious problems with MOTU hardware; customer support & design policys. Which i was entirely un-aware of. Shame.. I shall myself be considering some other options first.. *****************