core + 4x IIC + 8x bankstick pcb (formerly seq pcb)

[Wilba]

I'm not trying to shoot down Ultra's internals PCB, but...  someone needs to make a control surface PCB one of these days! 

A few of my friends want these sequencers after seeing mine, but there's no way I'd ever consider wiring up another control surface!!

Yes, someone should. Someone might be doing that right now, but not blogging about it to avoid being flooded with feature requests and posts like "Count me in for ten kits!" and "When will SmashTV sell these kits complete with encoders, knobs and a soldering iron?".

However, this is thread hijacking.

Kudos to ultra for putting the time into a Core+IIC PCB. Count me in for ten kits! Maybe it's quicker if I just steal the design, stick some DIN/DOUTs on the same PCB and get some prototypes made... Hmm...  ;)

[bugfight]

...

does anybody want to move this thread to a more appropriate place?  it's not just for seq anymore!

how about calling it "MB_Core++ with UltraConnectâ„¢"?

[Sasha]

another update.  i added traces to allow this pcb to be used as a router as well as a seq.  you simply use those jumpers that slide onto headers to select whether you're using this for a seq or router.  at minimum you need to put on one jumper to use this as a seq.  soldering in a small bridge would work as well.  thank bugfight for this idea.  i would have missed it.  in fact, i would have missed running a trace that allows this to be used as a seq ;).

does anybody want to move this thread to a more appropriate place?  it's not just for seq anymore!

That is great! And, what should I do now with all those IIC modules I build and put in "waiting box" :)

Maybe it's quicker if I just steal the design, stick some DIN/DOUTs on the same PCB and get some prototypes made... Hmm...  ;)

Wilba, I think steeling is good Idea. What do you say ultra? ;D Now seriously, if there are all DIN DOUT are on PCB, it could be perfect for any medium or big system, not just SEQ or router. You just populate what you need. I know this idea is not what you ultra have in mind but I always thought one well designed "all in one" PCB would be great. And I know alot of people agree with it.

Connecting the wires is not difficult, but I never thought making all those interconnections is quick nor fun job and I wish to minimize it. Those SIL headers are not so perfect as you need to make crimp connectors. If DIL headers were used as SmashTV did on some of his designs it will allow fast interconnection using those non-crimping connectors for flat cable. So I would like to see some better IO modules or all in one solution.

[stryd_one]

i added traces to allow this pcb to be used as a router as well as a seq.

Yes! Thankyou!  :D

Buggy and I were having a laugh at ourselves in the chat, cause we talked about this for about an hour, going into heaps of detail, knowing full well that it may never happen at all ;D

Props to bugfight for the spot.

[bugfight]

...

if there are all DIN DOUT are on PCB, it could be perfect for any medium or big system, not just SEQ or router.

...

i disagree here. how many inputs? how many outputs? 16x16 SR's would be mostly wasted.

also i (and, i believe ultra) intend to minimize the usual spaghetti-wiring by putting the SR on the control panel itself, so interconnects are just one serial ribbon.

...

If DIL headers were used as SmashTV did on some of his designs it will allow fast interconnection using those non-crimping connectors for flat cable.

...

here i agree.  SIL crimping == antifun.

however in this case ultra is the decider.  and i think for SEQ, the only SIL needed on this pcb are the midi ports, which are the same here for panel mount jacks as SmashTV's pcbs

[ultra]

i disagree here. how many inputs? how many outputs? 16x16 SR's would be mostly wasted.

also i (and, i believe ultra) intend to minimize the usual spaghetti-wiring by putting the SR on the control panel itself, so interconnects are just one serial ribbon.

i think that adding any kind of SR's is counter-productive.  the point is indeed to reduce spaghetti (i don't like italian food :P) so my SR's will be on the control surface.  this produces the least amount of wiring and is the most customizable.

here i agree.  SIL crimping == antifun.

however in this case ultra is the decider.  and i think for SEQ, the only SIL needed on this pcb are the midi ports, which are the same here for panel mount jacks as SmashTV's pcbs

i think the SIL headers are gonna stay.  a lot of these won't be used very much, and also they can still connect to smash's boards if you use SIL on that side of it as well.  i might just be good with tedious tasks, but i really don't mind putting together SIL connectors.

[stryd_one]

IIRC the idea with the midi ports was that the builder could run wiring to panel mount jacks, or if they wanted PCB mount jacks, they could make a separate board that held the jacks and rn the same wires to that ... It would be cool if there was a DIL header for the MIDI outs so that a connection to such a board would be simple, and more importantly clean (no spaghetti) ... But looking at the gif I'm unsure how easy that would be to do.

[asafnetzer]

Look great Ultra,

I guess there is no other option then to add myself to this project, One more pcb to the pile of projects

I wonder if I ever finish them or keep going forever  ???

Thank,

Asaf

[ultra]

i've reconsidered on using DIL headers for everything but the midi i/o.  the pcb is a little bigger now, but still not bad at all.

http://www.sub-version.net/diy/seq/images/core.gif

It would be cool if there was a DIL header for the MIDI outs so that a connection to such a board would be simple, and more importantly clean (no spaghetti) ... But looking at the gif I'm unsure how easy that would be to do.

how do you suggest this would look?

the best i can think if would be 5 sets of DIL headers that look like this:

X+G-X

X+X-X

each header would be one set of i/o, so DIL can be used off to another board, but SIL headers will fit on it as well (at least mine will).  i wouldn't object to doing this since it would be a simple change and wouldn't add much space at all to the pcb.

Look great Ultra,

I wonder if I ever finish them or keep going forever  ???

you're gonna keep going forever.  i have klee and wogglebug pcbs sitting here that i haven't touched yet.  gotta finish the 9090, box-o-trix... oh and this seq thing i have going on.

it never ends :)

[Sasha]

Cool, but I think good idea would be if you rotate J11 IIC4 90 degree and move it toward the left PCB edge and remove other J11 connectors. That will make PCB smaller as you need only one J11 anyway. DIL headers for MIDI IO would be very welcome.

[kokiPsiho]

Hi,

have you considered providing PSU options similar to what Wilba did for his PCB? Maybe adding some connector and few jumpers

will allow to use stabilized PSU like C64 or similar. Anyway PCB looks very good.

Thanks.

[ultra]

Cool, but I think good idea would be if you rotate J11 IIC4 90 degree and move it toward the left PCB edge and remove other J11 connectors. That will make PCB smaller as you need only one J11 anyway. DIL headers for MIDI IO would be very welcome.

you must mean J4, since it's the only headers (besides midi i/o) that go to the IIC modules.  it's my understanding that these give access to midi i/o on each IIC PIC, bypassing the optocouplers.  could be useful to someone.  the additional pcb height is necessary anyway to make room for the connectors on j8/j9, j10, and j11.  i've tested the spacing with connectors and what is there is necessary (with a little extra).  the lcd headers couldn't be moved up because i need the extra space by the power headers.  i plan on adding a sub-circuit that will slip on top of those headers to make a pushbutton power toggler using a tact switch.  there's just enough room between those headers for an 8 pin dil socket to be mounted over them.

have you considered providing PSU options similar to what Wilba did for his PCB? Maybe adding some connector and few jumpers

will allow to use stabilized PSU like C64 or similar.

sorry.  i don't know anything about this and it's not in my plans.

[bugfight]

... Maybe adding some connector and few jumpers

will allow to use stabilized PSU like C64 or similar. ...

you can easily use a regulated 5v supply with no additional jumpers.

just leave off the regulator (IC3), C5, and BR1 and connect the supply to the gnd and output pads for the reg.

[nILS]

just leave off the regulator (IC3), C5, and BR1 and connect the supply to the gnd and output pads for the reg.

...or just solder the damn jumpers ;D It's not like it would require dozens of them.

[ultra]

hi,

the pcb is pretty much complete.  the final size is 160 x 80 mm.

http://www.sub-version.net/diy/seq/images/core.gif

the power and midi headers have changed a lot, and here are some details on that.

J1A is the same as J1 on smash's core.  J1B breaks the connection and goes out to a switch.  simply bridge it if you don't use this.

J2A and J2B are identical and are the same as J2 on smash's core.  you can use these to power the core and also power something else, or just get vdd/vss out of it if you need it.

these should be pretty self-explanatory.

the decision to use DIL was to give more options.  also, i plan on adding a sub-circuit over the power header (not a pcb that will be released) and DIL will offer more support.  on any of these connections, SIL connectors can still be used, even if you use DIL headers.  in fact, two SIL connectors side-by-side in a DIL header will be more stable.

i hope to be able to get this made and test it out very soon.  i'll let you know what happens :).

[Sasha]

May I suggest to move voltage regulator more towards the edge (edge to edge). It gets pretty hot when you hook 2 backlite LCDs, so this way it can be screwed to the enclosure chassis, or longer heat sink. Same time you could be able to move the C5 bit left so you want have anything on the way when screwing the regulator to the heat sink or chassis. That is often ignored and I find it very important!

I would also move the power header in line with the MIDI headers. It is not really necessary but it will look more tidy.

Anyway, good work!!!  ;)

[stryd_one]

Man that is tasteful.

I agree with sasha on both points there...

[ultra]

yes the idea regarding the heatsink is a good one.  i'll move some things around.  i agree that it would look nicer with the power header in line with the midi i/o, and i had thought of that.  i put it down there because i wanted to position it in the middle of the small pcb i'd be stacking on top of it, but i guess i'd want it off to the side anyway.  shouldn't hurt if it's hanging over the board and i could put a spacer in the other side anyway (if this makes any sense).  these changes can be taken care of pretty easily so i'll do ahead and do it :).

edit:

check the link again.  took about 1 minute :).

[Sasha]

Great! Thank you. But, what about moving the regulator closer to the edge? It could reach it if the pins are little bent but would be better without banding.

[ultra]

hopefully it's not too close to the edge now.  passed DRC ok.

[stryd_one]

Hot.

[Sasha]

I think it is perfect now. It can`t be too close if it is inside the PCB area. :)

While looking at the only empty space on PCB (BTW. really tight packing!) I realized it can be used to lay the C5 horizontally. :D Just perfect. It can be done without further PCB modifications, but it could be double perfect if you rotate C5 90 degree so both pins of C5 can be bent in same spot. Much easier.  ;)

There are situations when hight matters. I saved alot of space placing those caps horizontally while building the Endorphin. Please don`t take it as a request if you think it is pointless. I am already very happy how that PCB looks now!

[stryd_one]

You're right sasha it would be heaps easier with the pins around 90 degrees....

[ultra]

it's not pointless, it's a simple tweak that i didn't think of.  i'll rotate it and then move it down a couple of clicks, just above R1.  the diameter of the cap tends to be slightly smaller than the footprint anyway, but there will be enough space for more.  that will help get it out of the way of the power headers.

i really have no problem making small usability changes.  in fact, this weekend is the time to speak up if you can think of anything else (just no major layout changes please). 

glad you guys like it.  i'm hoping to order the pcbs by early next week and test them asap.  i have a mouser order (almost) ready to go to fill it with parts.  then the fun begins :).

edit:

i've already made the change:

http://www.sub-version.net/diy/seq/images/core.gif

[Sasha]

Cool, I`m out of inspiration now, which means I`m very satisfied with current design. :)

I really like you posted the design here before going into production. To bad it is not always the case with DIY PCB designs. I think those few modifications your did after our suggestions improved it quite a bit even you already did all the hard and good work. This open designing gives it final touch. Thank you very much for your great work.  ;)