glitched Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hello:First of all, I hope this post is in the right section. I was going to post it in the SID forum, but this topic is more general. Feel free to move it if you think it belongs somewhere else.Anyway, the purpose of this thread is to ask for your help in "proofreading" my quasi-custom MBSID frontpanel design. A couple years ago, I completed my MBSID, but hastily threw it into a Nintendo NES case, which worked temporarily. Now, I want my MBSID to look a bit more professional.It's quasi-custom because I took some of the elements of standard control surface template and combined them with Wilba's template for the PT-10. It's really nothing major, I just wanted to know from you pro's if my measurements were right (as I'm still very new to this DIY thing).I have some basic questions, as well.I have set up a mini-site, so as not to clutter up this forum: http://drop.io/mbsidv2 . You can help by downloading the .fpd file, looking at the questions I've posted, and using the "comment" facility. (All the pertinent datasheets and part numbers have been uploaded there.) Drop.io is such a great collaborative tool.For convenience, I'll upload the .fpd and post some questions here.And here they are:1. Have I got all the measurements for my components correct? 2. Regarding the holes and spacing for the 6x6mm tactile switches: I installed them on a standard stripboard (spaced 0.100" between holes). There is a two-hole space between each switch. Each switch spans four holes. In FPD, I aligned the components to the grid, spaced 0.100". The length from the center of one component to the next is six holes. Is that right? 3. Should I add any space or "padding" to any of the holes (to allow for the minor errors in manufacturing)? All the measurements are exact.Notes:1-The hole for the screw at the bottom of the switch area will secure those control elements to the faceplate.2-I only plotted two screw-holes for the LCD. In my experience, this is adequate. I won't be moving the box much, anyway.Is there anything obvious I'm missing?Thanks so much for your help.Regards,-dmy frontpanel 2.fpdmy frontpanel 2.fpd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 gday glitched,It's nice of you to try to consider he forum but ... Offsite documentation is bad </broken record>Better to put the pix here and keep the conversation here. Helps for others to have a reference in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 These are the components used in the project.Pactec PT-10: https://www.pactecenclosures.com/Plastic-Enclosures/PT-10.htmlDatasheet uploaded.LCD: http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt7dcPGmvnkBodJ4P%252bCTn9wxzJSnT%2f4Rm4%3dThe component drawing PDF has been uploaded.6x6 mm Tactile Switches with Caps:http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=101-0200-evDatasheet has been uploaded.10 MM Standoffs (for the space between the LCD and frontpanel):http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102860I also have an ALPS encoder that will be attached to the front, but it's panel-mount; no problems there.Thanks again.drw_PT-10.pdfmicrotipsLCD.pdfswitchcap.pdfdrw_PT-10.pdfmicrotipsLCD.pdfswitchcap.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Maybe someone can give me a start.How much "wiggle room" should there be in my measurements? 0.1mm? 0.5mm?Would you say Front Panel Express is pretty precise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_DK Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hey Glitched,I read the PDF's carefully, and I think I can help you out with most things...First of all let me give you a little hint on how I work, this way I avoided a lot of trouble like you're having now... Get cinema 4D or wathever 3D designing program you can find and draw the whole thing. Just by drawing it this way you will notice another bunch of problems. I've added a design for my GM5 rack module so you can check what I mean. By this way I could check up everything in a 3D way, if there was enough room, does this button looks good,.... after the design steps I just had to enter the sizes and coordinates of the wholes into FPD and order it. (it was the same for the printing on the panel) About the LCD, I guess you'll have to look up the "viewable" size of the display and get one of those "LCD windows" which you mount on the device, reichelt sells those things:http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=4;GROUP=A529;GROUPID=3013;ARTICLE=42813;START=0;SORT=artnr;OFFSET=16;SID=284OSzYKwQARwAAARwQyo6b637ae9ad41be5f570bbb0f1a2e4130Then you just have to check up the datasheet of the window to know how to drill the wholes. In the attachment is a front panel file of my router, which also has a 2*20 lcd with a window, I cut out the window (with the two balancing wholes! and fit the lcd on the other side.About the tactile switches, I would take +0.3mm to be sure (front panel designer is pretty precise ;) )Then the Standoffs, they look good but on the other hand, I use just standerd "distance busses" I don't know the exact word but they use it to mount several PCB's on the sam distance (they cost like nothing, and use just standard M3 screws). You can glue those to the front panel from one side and screw the LCD in, on this manner you don't have any screws on your front panel which makes it looking real professionalI will now make a post in "Design Concepts" about my new router who's almost finished, almost everything I told in here will be visible on the photographs (the LCD window, the mounting to the front board, etc...)I hope this was a little bit helpful...If there are some more problems, just let me know,Best,HansMIDI Router 2.fpdMIDI Router 2.fpd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Hello, Hans:Thanks so much for your reply. You have certainly given me some ideas.I like your idea of gluing the "standoffs" (I think that's the word you were looking for; maybe "spacers"?) for the LCD to the underside of the front panel, eliminating the need for screws there. Heck, I may even carry that idea through to the rest of the design and hide all the screws. I suppose the only issue is finding the right height of spacer for the stripboard that holds the tactile switches. Obviously, I want them to protrude through the faceplate somewhat.Speaking of the design, I don't want it to look completely monolithic, so I will probably leave the four corner screws on the faceplate. At a later juncture, I'll possibly add gfx or whatever.Oh, Wilba used the JB Weld technique to achieve his screw-less front panel design:http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_6582_control_surface_construction_guideBy the way, I did look at the data sheets in the design process, but the strange thing about the LCD drawing was that it did not include measurements from the screw holes to the outer bezel of the screen (or to the "viewable area"). Anyway, I did a few "real world' tests on paper and the LCD port looks good.Gee, I guess there's not that much else to talk about. I'll take a look at your other thread and come back here with any additional questions. Thanks again.Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 So, I've decided to make my design mainly screwless (like Wilba's), aside from the corner screws.On that subject, I have a question about screws and standoffs.I know that I'll need standoffs 10 mm in length (this is close to the 3/8" length of the radioshack ones), but what screw size?I suppose that depends on the hole for the LCD.In that case, the holes are 3.5 mm in diameter. Does that mean I should get an M3.5 sized screw or a M3 screw?According to this chart, the major diameter of a M3.5 screw is 3.479 mm...so am I right to assume M3.5 is the size I want?Here's what I came up with:http://www.mcmaster.com/#94868a022/=1f1awcBy the way, why are these things so damned expensive? $2.59 each?!?!Let me know if I'm on the right track.Thanks! I appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futureman Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 In that case, the holes are 3.5 mm in diameter. Does that mean I should get an M3.5 sized screw or a M3 screw?M3.5 is not a very standard size, M3 is very common. Stick with M3 thread.The holes on the screen are 3.5mm to fit a standard M3 size, or for those slacker americans with imperial size.. 1/8th of an Inch... (Incase you don't know, M3 screw will NOT fit in a 1/8" nut etc..)RegardsMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Ok, so, just to be clear: an M3 sized screw will fit through the hole in my LCD and will mate with an M3 threaded standoff/spacer. Is that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 good to go :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 This is great!I think I have all my questions answered and will commit to buy the frontpanel today!Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Hey, just a little update.I ordered the front panel and it should be here by next week. Can't wait.Also, after searching high and low for the best prices on standoffs and screws, I found them at mcmaster.com. I did not go with the M3 standoffs for the LCD because the Radioshack ones work perfectly and are the perfect height. Besides, the cheapest 10 mm M3 part is something like $1.24! I would then have to buy a bunch of screws @ $6.00 or whatever. So, I said forget it.However, I still needed some standoffs for the board that holds the tactile switches. The clearance there is around 5.5 - 6 mm. Again, I found that the metric part was too expensive. Hum...what's close to 5.5 mm...ah, 7/32". To my surprise, the non-metric (aluminum) part was a mere $0.39! I ordered a bunch of these: http://www.mcmaster.com/#91780a415/=1qbtn3 . I got the 4-40 screws at Home Depot for like $1, rather than spending $6 on a million screws I don't need.This is how much my SID V2 "remix" has cost me so far:1 Pactec PT-10 case @ $301 Custom front panel from Front Panel Express @ $31.001 Package of 4-40 screws @ $16 Female threaded hex standoffs (7/32" body length, 4-40 thread) @ $0.39 = $2.34Superglue (free)Total: $65.34Not too bad! I'll continue to update this when the front panel arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Hello.I just got my front panel from FrontPanelExpress.com and it's amazing. Perfect, really. Everything fits and the finished product should look really cool.So, I intend to glue the control boards and LCD to the back of the panel, as stated above.I have some aluminum spacers and some plastic ones that I use on the LCD.Here's the question: Is it a colossally bad idea to consider using Super Glue? I know Wilba recommends JB Weld for metal parts, but I'm using plastic as well.Keep in mind that this isn't going to be a mobile rig and the boards are so tiny and light, so I doubt I need the strength of a weld to affix the control boards to the panel.I would "practice" on the appropriate materials, but I don't have any to spare!Thanks.Pics soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 JB Weld or any other 2 component glue will work nicely, super glue has a tendency to be very stiff and break easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridracer Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I can absolutely confirm this.I made trials with sveral types of glue:Two component (EPOXY) glue works best.Spaceres glued with superglue broke off very easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thanks, guys. I went to Home Depot and picked up some "multi-purpose" glue that cures in 24 hours, sets in 1 hour. I was able to position my LCD before the glue hardened and currently have the pieces clamped.We'll see how strong the bond is tomorrow, then do the board that holds the switches! This is going to look nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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