MIDIbox SEQ V4 Release + Feedback

[borfo]

I would like to use midi-delay feature and a reduced LFO-function common in the same menu page to generate something like

 

||:1 [+2,+3...], 1 [+2,+3...], 1 [+2,+3...], 1 [-2,-3...]* :||

 

*1 = Note; 2&3 = delay note; +/- = LFO-effect

 

Is that possible and useful?

...or already implemented better & I have to read the manual?

 

Have you looked at FX->Echo?  If your LFO effect would just be dropping or raising pitch or velocity, FX->Echo can do that.

 

Edit: oh, I didn't notice the minuses on the last phrase - you mean setting up FX -> Echo so that it doesn't do the same thing on every echo?  ...like, it would alternate between rising pitch echos and falling pitch echos?  The software doesn't do that now, but it would be easy to program.  I was thinking about adding a feature to the Robotizer that would change the parameters of the other effects, but haven't gotten around to it yet.  Take a look at the Robotizer code - follow searches for "robot" around in the source code and you'll see where you'd have to make changes to implement your LFO/Echo

Edited April 2, 2015 by borfo

[mfk]

I thought of something like this:

C-3  ---- ---- ---- | ---- ---- ---- ---- | C-3  ---- ---- ---- | ---- ---- ---- ---- |

Trk    Echo  Repeat  Delay    Vel.Level     FB Velocity    Note   Gatelen.   Ticks
G1T2    ON      3      16        75%            75%         +3      100%      100%

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---- ---- ---- ---- | C-3  ---- ---- ---- | ---- ---- ---- ---- | C-3- ---- ---- ----
Trk    Echo  Repeat  Delay    Vel.Level     FB Velocity    Note   Gatelen.   Ticks
G2T2    ON      3      16        75%            75%         -3      100%      100%

Realized with two channels. works well enough..., But as one channel + FX-LFO it could be implemented like this:

 

additional LFO:

      target1     target2      target3     Reset        LFO pulse width    LFO-height

      Echo         Echo        Echo        off, 1-256          1-256           0-127
or    Repeat       Repeat      Repeat       
or    Delay        Delay       Delay        
or    Vel. Lev     Vel. Lev    Vel. Lev     
or    FB Vel       FB Vel      FB Vel       
or    Note         Note        Note         
or    Gatelen.     Gatelen.    Gatelen.

 

so my thoughts.
Now I have to paint eggs with my children. This is probably more important.

[mfk]

after a sleepless night I've noticed:
The LFO-Page is more then enough.

[phillwilson]

I would like to propose firmware update to have any note played on a keyboard that is using FTS (force to scale) settings in live record mode have those (scaled) notes play back in the sequencer... I can't understand a reason for it NOT to be this way or am I missing something?

 

so usage case would be

 

if I have FTS set to Harmonic Minor and C , I get a Cm scale on all the white keys...if I play in a sequence of notes, currently when they come to be played back they become Major (as if FTS is OFF)...could we have it so that relative scales are kept consistent between the live recording / playback mode and the sequencer.

 

thanks

 

Phill

[TK.]

I added following items to the wish list:

----------------------------------------------------------
FTS for Random Generator

----------------------------------------------------------
Selectable Button Behaviour for Step View

----------------------------------------------------------
FTS for Recording Mode

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Two items haven't been added because I need more input:

 

One feature i think might be very useful is something implemented on the newer Elektrons. it would be great if you could hold a step down (in Step Edit) and use the Rewind/FFWD buttons to shift/delay that held step in time forward/backward. Those buttons shift Step View when not in Song mode, but I think it would be useful to have a held step override that assignment if possible. The Delay layer is awesome but I'm very accustomed to this immediate kind of in-pattern shifting of note position.

 

do you mean that it should just move the step to a new position, like the UTILITY->MOVE function (where the same can be done with the rotary encoders)?

 

Or do you mean a "tick-wise" shifting, then the delay layer is the right choice.

 

 

*1 = Note; 2&3 = delay note; +/- = LFO-effect

 

You could use the existing Groove Pattern function for such purposes:

Change to the Groove page and select a Custom groove style.

At the right side you can now specify the number of steps which should be processed until the pattern repeats (in other word: it's like the LFO period)

For each step you can specify a Delay, Length and Velocity modification.

Especially odd pattern lengths result into very interesting variations.

 

 

I would like to propose firmware update to have any note played on a keyboard that is using FTS (force to scale) settings in live record mode have those (scaled) notes play back in the sequencer... I can't understand a reason for it NOT to be this way or am I missing something?

 

It has a technical reson why the FTS function won't be applied on the recorded notes:

whenever notes are recorded into a step, the function needs to know which keys are pressed on the keyboard to handle the poly recording properly. It also needs to know this to generate glides.

 

If the recorded note isn't identical with the "tracked" notes, then this mechanism wouldn't work anymore.

So: I've to find a different (more complicated) way to handle this; currently I've no good idea how to do this without wasting a lot of memory... therefore it can take some time until the feature will be available.

 

As a workaround you could just enable the FTS function for the track, this can be done in the MODE page (enable ForceScale).

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[pawaga]

hi,

I would like to suggest a feature :

it would be another kind of layer that i call "nth" :

if the value > 0 then the step is only played every nth bar.

if the value < 0 then the step is muted every nth bar.

 

for example for a 4 step sequence "CGDF" with nth values "1,3,-3,4" would give

bar 1 :C-D- 

bar 2 :C-D-

bar 3 :CG--

bar 4 :C-DF

bar 5 :C-D-

bar 6 :CG--

bar 7 :C-D-

bar 8 :C-DF

...

To implement it, you can use the % operator : if barNum%nth == 0 then play or mute

 

i experimented that on some max patches and find it very useful to easily make long (or very long) musical patterns.

[TK.]

Nice idea & easy to implement - I added it to the wish list :smile:

I would say that a modulo over up to 16 bars should be enough.

Since a step value contains 7bit, it means that 4 bits are used to set the modulo, and 3 bits could be used to encode different behaviours.

E.g.:

0: off

1: Mute

2: Play

3: Accent

4: Echo

5: Roll

6: Randomize

7: free for additional idea

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[pawaga]

oh, it will be really great that way.

thanks !

[nukemodular]

7: free for additional idea

 

...maybe Skip? :)

[jjonas]

Hi,

 

I have a thought on what I think would be an improvement to the interface.

 

At the moment in the Length screen, if you have two notes and the first one has a length of 91%, you can see that there is a visible gap between the length bars of first note and the second note. If you increase the length of the first note to 92 %, there is no glide of course, but the visible gap disappears, and the length bar looks the same as if the length was 100%. I would find it useful if the gap appeared immediately when you adjust down from 100% (glide) to 98% (no glide) instead of the gap appearing only at 91%.

 

How does this sound?

[TK.]

I implemented the "Nth" mode today - have fun!
-> http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_seq_v4_088_pre17.zip
 

   o added new parameter layer "Nth" which triggers a special action on each nth bar.
     Following trigger conditions are available:
     - Pl (Play each nth bar)
     - Mu (Mute each nth bar)
     - Ac (Accent each nth bar)
     - Ro (Roll each nth bar)
     - Fx (enable Fx each nth bar)
     - Nx (don't enable Fx each nth bar)

 
Unfortunately "Skip", explicit "Random" and explicit "Echo" isn't possible with the way how the core engine is implemented, therefore I renamed these modes to "Fx" and "No Fx"
 
 
This is a release candidate for V4.088
Major update is in the Record and Live screen.
The new live patterns won't be stored yet - I will add this soon and then officially release V4.088
 
New features won't be added to V4.088 anymore (I would like to get this stable after considering so many requests...)
 
 

At the moment in the Length screen, if you have two notes and the first one has a length of 91%, you can see that there is a visible gap between the length bars of first note and the second note. If you increase the length of the first note to 92 %, there is no glide of course, but the visible gap disappears, and the length bar looks the same as if the length was 100%. I would find it useful if the gap appeared immediately when you adjust down from 100% (glide) to 98% (no glide) instead of the gap appearing only at 91%.

 
Should work as requested with v4_088_pre17
 
Best Regards, Thorsten.

[pawaga]

:)

Many thanks Thorsten,

I love the new feature, loads of fun !
There is a display bug on my side : the nth parameter is too long by one char, so the params are not aligned with their step..

regards,

Patrice

[TK.]

One of those quick changes that you shouldn't release w/o testing ;-)

 

It's fixed in pre17 (link changed in the posting above); thanks for the quick feedback! :)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[stuartm]

The "Nth" Parameter is an awesome idea, thanks for bringing it up Pawaga.

And thanks to TK for the quick implementation.

 

I've got just a "logical" issue with it:

Starting the sequencer from stop position.

The "nth" action is carried out actually the first time it comes across, and the is repeated n bars after.

 

Eample:

If I have for example a usual clap on the downbeat of 2 and 4 and want some ghost/break clap every second bar.

Using just 16 steps, I put the regular claps on the downbeat and the break claps on some other steps with a "nth" parameter assigned.

If I assign "Pl 2" to those off beat claps, I personally would assume the are played every second bar, i.e. the first run through / first bar it is not triggered, but only the second bar.

 

I can simply create the desired effect by using the "mute" instead of play in this 2 bar pattern, but it gets confusing I think when for example you want just some break claps every 4th bar (standard techno, you know .. :smile: ).

Using "Pl 4"  the break would apprear in bar 1, bar 5 and so forth ... instead of in bars 4, 8 etc.

 

Long story short, I think it just about how the "nth" bar is counted from the start.

Edited April 20, 2015 by stuartm

[TK.]

It was counted from the start, and then repeated each Nth bar.

 

I see the benefit, and the most simple way to satisfy both is just to separate between Nth1 and Nth2 behaviour.

Try this version: http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_seq_v4_088_pre18.zip

 

   o added new parameter layers "Nth1" and "Nth2" which trigger a special action 
     on each nth bar (Nth1) starting at the 1st bar, or after nth bars (Nth2).

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[stuartm]

Nice one, now it works perfectly.

Actually, it's a very easy way to get variations and breaks, especially when combining with probability.

 

Thanks TK !

[jjonas]

Hi,

 

some feedback. I have set Rec 'on' in the Jam page, then pressed EDIT to start entering notes, with step+1 (though the step setting could be anything). I enter a few notes and then find I pressed the wrong key for a few steps. As it is, I cannot use the datawheel to change the position and start entering new notes from the new location, because the seq always takes the "current" location from the Jam page. So if the last note I entered is in step 10, and then use the datawheel to move to e.g. step 2 and press a key to record a note, the seq jumps to step 11 instead and records the note there. If you want to go back to an earlier location, you must do it via the Jam screen knob 11.

 

Is it possible and a good idea that the "current" location can in this situation be set also with the datawheel, and not only with knob 11 in the Jam screen?

 

The reason why I first set Rec 'on' and then press EDIT is that often it takes some time to enter the right notes in the right places, and if you record the steps while in the Jam screen, the seq switches to EDIT screen for a few seconds when you enter a note to show where the note landed (and which note it was), but then it switches back to the Jam page. I like to take my time in entering the notes into the steps, and I find a few seconds per step (before returning to the Jam page) is too quick.

 

BTW if you first set Rec 'on' and then press EDIT, and then press SELECT, the seq switches between "step recording" and "edit recording" (or the text on the screen does). Are these two different functions, or is it only the text that is changing?

 

EDIT: Oh and the newest update section in changelog (and the last entry of that section) still mentions Record page by e.g. giving the advice to press Utility->Rec->Ptn, when the Rec is actually Jam now. Maybe that should be changed?

 

Also I had one of my Function buttons on the CS wired for "BUTTON_RECORD M2 2", but it didn't work properly anymore with the new Jam page. It does take me to the Jam page when Rec is 'off', but doesn't when it's 'on' (when it's 'on' it takes me to EDIT page from anywhere).

Edited April 22, 2015 by jjonas

[stuartm]

Also I had one of my Function buttons on the CS wired for "BUTTON_RECORD M2 2", but it didn't work properly anymore with the new Jam page. It does take me to the Jam page when Rec is 'off', but doesn't when it's 'on' (when it's 'on' it takes me to EDIT page from anywhere).

 

Phew, so it's not just me :smile: , already wrote about it here:

[jjonas]

It's so much nicer to be a dummy together with someone else :-)

 

One further comment: I had a problem with live recording, quantize and midi forwarding. My controller is on ch.1 (also the rec channel), and a track/synth on ch.2. If I set quantize to 0%, there is no problem, but if I set it at 50%, for example, it seems whenever quantize moves a note into the next step, forwarding to the synth stops (for that note), and the sound becomes very short even though I'm holding the key down. However, the note length gets recorded normally, only it doesn't seem to be forwarded to the synth properly. If I play carefully so that the keys come down strictly on the beat, there is no problem.

 

I tested briefly with the previous version (087), and even though the rec page is now different and there might thus have been some settings mismatch I didn't notice, I didn't encounter this.

 

Now, stuartm, is this only me? ;-)

Edited April 23, 2015 by jjonas

[stuartm]

One further comment: I had a problem with live recording, quantize and midi forwarding.... Now, stuartm, is this only me? ;-)

 

Probably not  :rofl:

 

I did a lot of jamming and recording yesterday night, and came across a similar issue when recording to an 8-layer drum track part by part (i.e. first the claps, the hi hats, then snare etc.)

While in live recording, whenever I hit a note on a step that already contained some triggers it sounded as if only the live played note was sounding, and the triggers already in the track are silenced.

They were recorded alright and everything was fine once I stopped tapping in notes.

 

Example:

Record a clap to beats 2 and 4.

Tap a 8th note hi hat pattern. While tapping this in, the claps on the 2 and 4 are not sounding.

Stop tapping, both clap and hihat are sounding.

 

/edit: just forgot: I usually have the quantising around 40%.

Edited April 24, 2015 by stuartm

[jjonas]

Hi,

 

one more thing (Columbo style :-)  In the case described in my previous message (#893), where I set Rec to 'on' and then go to EDIT page, the top row of the left LCD reads "STEP RECORDING", and it covers the name of the track (the situation was more or less the same with earlier versions, if I recall right, so it wasn't introduced with the Jam updates).

 

I don't know about track naming conventions of other people, so this might not help anyone else but me, but anyway the track names I use are of the form "synthName channel", e.g. "Blofeld ch.6". However, while Rec is 'on', the "STEP RECORDING" text covers the name (and channel). At least as a thought I would find it useful if the "STEP RECORDING" text alternated with the track name "under" it, so that it would be immediately clear which synth and which channel you're on, if for example you first record on G1T1 and then change to G2T4 (and don't remember by heart which synth and which channel was on that track). Alternating text is just my first idea, perhaps there are more elegant ways – if indeed anyone else finds this a good idea in the first place :-)

[jjonas]

Further comments on things mentioned above:

 

The button I've set for Jam (F2) takes me to the Jam page (=works as expected) as long as Rec of 'off'. If Rec is 'on', it takes me to Edit page.

 

Then the following setup: On the Jam page, Rec is 'off', Forwarding is 'on' and Mode is 'Poly', and I use the Edit page Select button to start recording. If I record a note (or chord) in a step, everything is ok. But if I first record one note/chord, and then another, different note (or chord with at least one different note than in the first) in the same step, then the "different" notes (the notes that are in the first chord but not the second) will start playing, and won't stop. I've tried this with single notes and three-note chords, I don't know what happens if free note layers run out (I have 5 note layers in the track).

 

Also a question: What is the relation between Jam page Rec on/off and Edit page "quick recording" with the Select button?

[TK.]

Thanks for the valuable feedback! :smile:

Here a new version: http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_seq_v4_088_pre20.zip

 

I did following changes:

1) previously the record button switched between Edit/Jam page depending on recording enable

Now it always switches to the Jam page independent from record enable

 

2) previously the position for step recording was independent from the position selected in the EDIT page

Now this position is the same to avoid inconsistencies

 

3) EDIT page: previously special modes (like STEP RECORDING) where displayed at the place where normally the instrument is located

Now the instrument/special mode display alternates (slowly)

 

4) fixed „hanging notes“ issue in EDIT RECORDING function

 

 

To answer your questions & requests:

 

some feedback. I have set Rec 'on' in the Jam page, then pressed EDIT to start entering notes, with step+1 (though the step setting could be anything). I enter a few notes and then find I pressed the wrong key for a few steps. As it is, I cannot use the datawheel to change the position and start entering new notes from the new location, because the seq always takes the "current" location from the Jam page. So if the last note I entered is in step 10, and then use the datawheel to move to e.g. step 2 and press a key to record a note, the seq jumps to step 11 instead and records the note there. If you want to go back to an earlier location, you must do it via the Jam screen knob 11.

 

should be fixed with 2)

Please check if this causes new (unintended) side effects

 

 

Is it possible and a good idea that the "current" location can in this situation be set also with the datawheel, and not only with knob 11 in the Jam screen?

 

Would be inconsistent...

But: once you controlled the step position with Knob 11, you can use the datawheel to change the value as well. With change 2) it should have direct influence on the edit position so that there is hopefully less confusion about the cursor...

 

 

BTW if you first set Rec 'on' and then press EDIT, and then press SELECT, the seq switches between "step recording" and "edit recording" (or the text on the screen does). Are these two different functions, or is it only the text that is changing?

 

Actually EDIT recording is the same like STEP recording with the difference, that it would also be STEP recording if no recording, or live recording is enabled.

 

 

EDIT: Oh and the newest update section in changelog (and the last entry of that section) still mentions Record page by e.g. giving the advice to press Utility->Rec->Ptn, when the Rec is actually Jam now. Maybe that should be changed?

 

changed now

 

 

Also I had one of my Function buttons on the CS wired for "BUTTON_RECORD M2 2", but it didn't work properly anymore with the new Jam page. It does take me to the Jam page when Rec is 'off', but doesn't when it's 'on' (when it's 'on' it takes me to EDIT page from anywhere).

 

fixed with 1)

 

 

one more thing (Columbo style :-)  In the case described in my previous message (#893), where I set Rec to 'on' and then go to EDIT page, the top row of the left LCD reads "STEP RECORDING", and it covers the name of the track (the situation was more or less the same with earlier versions, if I recall right, so it wasn't introduced with the Jam updates).

 

changed with 3)

 

 

Then the following setup: On the Jam page, Rec is 'off', Forwarding is 'on' and Mode is 'Poly', and I use the Edit page Select button to start recording. If I record a note (or chord) in a step, everything is ok. But if I first record one note/chord, and thenanother, different note (or chord with at least one different note than in the first) in the same step, then the "different" notes (the notes that are in the first chord but not the second) will start playing, and won't stop. I've tried this with single notes and three-note chords, I don't know what happens if free note layers run out (I have 5 note layers in the track).

 

hopefully fixed with 4)

 

 

From Stuartm (confirmed by Jjonas):

I did a lot of jamming and recording yesterday night, and came across a similar issue when recording to an 8-layer drum track part by part (i.e. first the claps, the hi hats, then snare etc.)

While in live recording, whenever I hit a note on a step that already contained some triggers it sounded as if only the live played note was sounding, and the triggers already in the track are silenced.

They were recorded alright and everything was fine once I stopped tapping in notes.

 

Example:

Record a clap to beats 2 and 4.

Tap a 8th note hi hat pattern. While tapping this in, the claps on the 2 and 4 are not sounding.

Stop tapping, both clap and hihat are sounding.

 

We've a general issue here with the way how MBSEQ handles the quantisation.

 

If the quantisation threshold is reached, MBSEQ puts the note into the next step, and then mutes the entire step so that it won't be played twice.

For drum tracks I would have to differentiate between the recorded layers, and existing layers - this requires an extension.

 

The same mechanism also causes a problem if a long note is recorded as mentioned by Jjonas.

Since the quantisation can't look into the future, it doesn't know if the note will be played for more than one step, and therefore just stops it to avoid hanging notes.

 

I've to spend some thoughts about how to solve both problems, but it will take some time and since the changes are criticial (-> error prone) they won't be part of the upcoming release.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[stuartm]

The pre20 works great, no issues anymore with the Rec button. Thanks a lot.

Regarding the quantisation, I think it's ok if it's known/documented in the manual as it is.

[jjonas]

1) previously the record button switched between Edit/Jam page depending on recording enable

Now it always switches to the Jam page independent from record enable

 

Seems to be working now!

 

2) previously the position for step recording was independent from the position selected in the EDIT page

Now this position is the same to avoid inconsistencies

 

Seems to be working!

 

3) EDIT page: previously special modes (like STEP RECORDING) where displayed at the place where normally the instrument is located

Now the instrument/special mode display alternates (slowly)

 

I think this is more useful, even though I would call this relatively fast alternating; my personal preference would be somewhat slower still. But I hesitate to request that this be changed (or even included) unless other people say something about it. I can imagine it could irritate someone as well. I don't know if it's convenient to add something in the HW setup file to change the alternating speed from 0 (alternating off) to e.g. 3 (or 7 or 15 or something, max alternating speed). But like I said, I'd prefer other people said something first as well, so that I won't get bad karma for ramming through a silly improvement just for myself, one that can't even be switched off <:-)

 

4) fixed „hanging notes“ issue in EDIT RECORDING function

 

Seems to be working!

 

However, when you now use EDIT RECORDING, you can only record notes with length 1%, so you have to adjust the length by hand if you want to hear what you recorded. When you're recording a step, as long as you hold the key(s) down, the right LCD upper row shows "length 75%", but when you release, it changes to 1%.

 

If the quantisation threshold is reached, MBSEQ puts the note into the next step, and then mutes the entire step so that it won't be played twice.

For drum tracks I would have to differentiate between the recorded layers, and existing layers - this requires an extension.

 

The same mechanism also causes a problem if a long note is recorded as mentioned by Jjonas.

Since the quantisation can't look into the future, it doesn't know if the note will be played for more than one step, and therefore just stops it to avoid hanging notes.

 

I've to spend some thoughts about how to solve both problems, but it will take some time and since the changes are criticial (-> error prone) they won't be part of the upcoming release.

 

Ok, thanks for considering this. For me it's a borderline case, and probably more important for people who use the seq live.

 

One more this that I found today, maybe it's intentional, but I thought I'd mention it: If you have set the Parameter Layer C button functioning to 'toggle' in the HW setup file, you can get into the following situation.

 

Press C to enter layer selection page. If you now select a layer with the GP buttons, you will be taken back to the EDIT page with the selected layer in view, so everything is fine. But if you select layer A or B with the Parameter Layer buttons A or B (instead of the GP buttons), the layer does get selected (as indicated by the LED), but you won't be taken to the EDIT page, as you would normally be when selecting a layer. In fact, once you've tried to select a layer with Parameter Layer buttons A or B while on the layer select page, not even the GP buttons will take you to the EDIT page anymore. So while you can select the layers with Parameter Layer A or B buttons as well, in addition to the GP buttons, you will have to press EDIT button to get back to the EDIT page.