Any interest in more 19" MBSeq v4 panels? - LIST CLOSING END OF TODAY (Monday 15th)

[julianf]

I had an order for a mbseq panel recently, but its not really feasible to make them in 1-offs, so i made a handfull (see thread in seq forum) and offered the spares for sale (i completed 4 in total)

However, unfortunatly, one person missed out on the spare panels, and would still like one.

The panel is a fussy panel, and i cant buy in cut-to-size for the run in less than 5-off, so would there be 4 people interested in a panel?

This text is coppied from the description posted previously -

There are some pictures below -

The design has some minor changes to wilba's original. These are noted below -

The recesses on the rear of the panel are all milled to 2mm depth. The circular ones are cut large enough to fill with resin and then 'sit' a hexagonal threaded spacer in. I make the panels like this as i cant (easily) make threaded blinds here, and i do not think that such shallow threads are very strong anyhow. The recess is cut to give much more contact area than, for example, the surface-to-surface bonds that a lot of people initially had trouble with the mb6582 spec (indeed, the mb6582 panels i personally cut have corner holes to get arround this also)

The screen recess has a small change also in that it is cut 0.5mm deeper than Wilba's original specification. This meens that the cut is 2mm deep. Given that acrylic is often found in 2mm thick sections, this meens that a section can be hand cut (DIY) to fit in from the rear, without leaving a large 'step' on the front side. Basically the change allows the builder to use commonly availible material, cut by hand, and have all edges invisible without a large 'step' on the front of the panel, or a bit of acrylic sticking out on the rear side.

Im not able to undercut the big engraving company by quite as much with these ones as im able to with the mb6582s, but the saving should still be well worth having -

Cost per panel would be GBP 100, inc EU taxes, packing, but ex. shipping / transaction costs.

Items would be shipped from the UK. Bank accounts are held in Sterling (GBP) and Euros. Credit cards can be processed at cost.

I know that the number of people with PCBs is limited, so i probably wont do be able to take care of the last person who missed out on the previous batch if im going to get left with 4 panels unaccounted for.

If youre interested, drop your name on a post below. If the total number approaches five, then ill get things in hand.

If i could ask you to please not post unless you actually do want a panel, as, like i say, there are not that many PCBs about, and i doubt there will be significant outlet for unclaimed orders.

Edit -

Here is a table of the people who have confirmed below that they want a panel, and the quantities / colours etc

• sineSurfer 1-off (white)
  
• olga42 1-off (green)
  
• blackcelcius 3-off (white)
  
• gtxdude 1-off (green)
  

A number of people have expressed interest in PMs but...

I'm *only* going to cut panels that have a clear and public statment of intent on this thread.

This is becuase i fear just getting left with a load without buyers.

If your name isnt on the list above, please make your quantity/colour clear the thread below, and ill add your order to the list : )

Thank you, Julian

Edited March 16, 2010 by julianf

[sineSurfer]

I missed the run too, sorry... too much stuff going on right now on this side so... please count me in for 1, btw. do you have any x0x black panel left?

[julianf]

a few people have messaged me, so it looks like this could be a go'er. ill wait untill late next week, and then order in the metal, so as i can start work on them the week after.

as for x0xb0x panels - did you meen the panel type shown with the mb6582s in the mb6582 flea market thread? if so, then yes, i currently have them in stock (or at least im pretty sure i do - can check tommorow!)

ps. save me asking later - would anyone who posts also like to chose their infill colour.

options are -

red

yellow

orange

green

purple

blue

white

my favourite is the green, but i quite like the orange also.

(mixing different colours on one panel isnt somthing i much want to get into doing, as it takes a lot more time)

Edited March 7, 2010 by julianf

[sineSurfer]

as for x0xb0x panels - did you meen the panel type shown with the mb6582s in the mb6582 flea market thread?

yes, the matte black x0x panel, how much $ for that one?

and, white infill is fine for me ;)

A couple of questions:

Will you add the extra milling for pcb support as suggested by Wilba in the construction guide?

Is there any chance to have a panel cut at 17" or 18" for desktop case usage?(no rack ears) maybe after doing all the cnc?

btw. do you take paypal?

Thanks,

Freddy

Edited March 8, 2010 by sineSurfer

[julianf]

yes, the matte black x0x panel, how much $ for that one?

They are GBP 70 per set (front and rear)

Will you add the extra milling for pcb support as suggested by Wilba in the construction guide?

It would be possible, however i do not have the required data. Wilba's FPD files show the positions of the blinds, but not these additional holes. When creating a surface-to-surface bond, the position can be gained from the pcb (ie the pcb itself locates the contact point), but if im to cut the holes, i need to know the true co-ordinates (which i dont have)

Is there any chance to have a panel cut at 17" or 18" for desktop case usage?(no rack ears) maybe after doing all the cnc?

Possibly, although, to be truthfull, id rather make all the panels the same.

btw. do you take paypal?

What, that company that tries hard to evade eu regualtions, causes *evreyones* cost to increase (buyers love it as they naively think that they dont pay the fees...), puts "safe" on evrey email they send out to you (including the ones where they tell you theyve lost your money), seems to have poorly coded AIs handling their email responses, offers no 'seller protection' whatsoever outside of ebay transaction, etc.etc.

Nope, i use Google Checkout as a card carrier where needed - you know, that little company whom ebay claims isnt competant enough to handle processing cards on their site...

Edited March 8, 2010 by julianf

[blackcelcius]

Hi Julian,

The question asked before regarding the attachement of the PCB with threads instead of the resin that would be preferable

to me too...is there a way to find out the exact coordinates from wilba?

Hedi

[philetaylor]

I think that the extra fixing points that wilba indicated on the wiki entry are not necessarilly needed. I am using just the standard fixing points that are on wilba's original panel (with hex stand-offs epoxied into the 2mm blinds) and it is rock solid.

As Julian has pointed out (a few times now) it isn't that easy for him to create threaded blinds and being only 2mm deep, you will not get much of a thread anyway :)

If I get excited and press too hard on one of the buttons, there is a slight flex of the PCB but no more than I have seen in "professional" equipment.

Cheers

Phil

[julianf]

The question asked before regarding the attachement of the PCB with threads instead of the resin that would be preferable

to me too...

I'm wondering why that is, as, given the choice, at equal cost, i personally would go for the recesses and epoxy, rather than the thread.

Lets look at this in more detail -

With threadded blinds you only have a couple of mm of thread to deal with, in (relativly) soft alluminium.

So, if you want to use them, you either have to use somthing like this -

Or somthing like this -

You cant use one of these -

for reasons ill go into in a moment.

So, take the first part -

You will find that the screw end of the spacer will not have the exact ammount of thread that you need. This problem will be compounded by the fact that youll want a shakeproof washer in there also. So you wont actually even know how much thread you need. Normally this wouldnt be an issue, but, again we're probably only talking about 1.8mm of thread in the blind. 0.5mm too much thread, and youll bottom out, and 0.5 too little and youll probably only actuall be using about 1mm of thread (given that most screws are not threadded perfectly to the ends)

1mm of thread in a soft metal which you will probably have to do up and undo a number of times in the build. Overtighten it just once, and youll wreck the thread. Dont tighten it enough and the shakeproof washer wont bite, and youll get that irritating situation where, when you try and undo the screw in the other end of the spacer, it just spins the whole hex unit out of the panel on the other end, bending up the pcb as it does so.

So, thats option one. Lets look at the 2nd part. The spacer without thread.

With this you go down, through the pcb, through your washers, into the spacer, and then into the panel with the same screw. We're still only talking a small ammount of usable thread remember, and have you ever measured a batch of washers with some good verniers? Youll find they vary. And then, again, youll want to use a shakeproof somwhere. So how do you determin exactly how long to cut the screw? Ok, so youre not cutting the screw, youll pack it with extra washers. All of which may vary very slightly in thickness... And then you tighten it down a bit too hard again. There goes the thread. So you get left with an unusable mount. No change of helicoiling in a 2mm blind. Possibly you could counterbore it on a drill press and epoxy in a hex spacer though...

Part #3 then -

No hope with this one. You screw in from the top, through the pcb. Theres no way of easily controling the spacing between the screw head / pcb / spacer at the same time as governing the panel / spacer torque. Theyre all so interdependant.

And then we have the epoxy option -

No worries with precise measurements with this one. All you need to do is solder in a few switches, and put the switch caps on them, and screw the spacers to the board, using whatever washers you are using.

Clean the recesses and fill with resin, and lie the pcb in position. The switches will locate the pcb in exactly the position you want, and you can leave it to set.

The bond with the panel will be solid, so you wont encounter that irritation with trying to undo one screw in a spacer and the other end unscrewing insted. The levels will all be equalised when the resin sets. If you always used the same fasteners in the same locations, there would never be any flex on the pcb at all, and even if you mixed them, the error would only be one or two washers worth - you wouldnt need to be staking washers to increase spacing like you may have to in the other options.

Say, one day, you mess somthing up, and you give it so much force that you manage to break the resin bond (im not even sure this would be the first thing to break). What do you do then? Use the same spacer, or even get another, and simply epoxy it into place again. No counterboring, no thread reapir - just an easy diy fix.

So, i would choose the option ive suggested regardless.

I often fear that when you say to someone that they cant have somthing they want it even more, but, possibly not for the right reasons. Id be interested to know exactly why you (or indeed anyone else) thinks that threadded blinds would do them better in this instance.

(i guess ive gone to the trouble of explaining in this much detail as i dont want this to be looked down on as a cheaper, but not as good, option - sure its cheaper, but, for all the reasons above, id really have doubts at someone being able to suggest why threads would not be both more trouble in construction, less durable in use, and undoubtedly much harder to repair if somthing does go wrong)

[blackcelcius]

Hi Julian,

Dont get me wrong,the last thing I wanna be is a pain in your ass(pardon my french!) but

I was just looking for the best and most durable attachement and thanks to your big effort

trying to explain and enlight me further on the subject I get a good A/B vieuw on the matter

and have to admit that using resin might be the best option in the end.So thanks for the clarification...

Hedi

[jojjelito]

Hi Julian, all,

I was very happy as I got the last panel from the previous batch. It looked very nice, so I spent yesterday evening mounting it to the PCB. The craftsmanship is very good and it fits like a glove. I'd like to order another one since I'm building a 2nd MBSeq. Green infill this time :)

Cheers!

[blackcelcius]

Hey Julian,

As mentioned Monday on PM I will take 3 midibox seqv4 frontpanels with white lettering.

Just to keep things clear...

Hedi

[julianf]

thank you : )

I have asked Wilba for the coordinates of the 'optional' mounting points. If there's no issue with them, i may as well cut them into the this run of panels.

I can see why Wilba left them off the fpd file, as adding 21 (as per the photo in the wiki) threadded blinds from FPE would increase the cost still more (Euro 17.28 extra with tax)

If there are no major issues, i will include the additional work wihout charge : )

[blackcelcius]

Hey Julian,

Sounds great but are you sure it is the best option?After the whole explanation before on the pro

and contras you made me think otherwise...unless wilba assured you of the fact that it is a good thing to do?

Hedi

[sineSurfer]

Hi Julian, thanks for the answers.

I guess I can move the funds form paypal to my cc, don't feel that happy by sharing my cc # with google though, they have too much info on me already hehee

and about the extra spacer holes, will be nice if you can do them ;), btw what's the diameter of this holes?, just checking to be sure I get the proper spacers from Mouser

Thanks,

Freddy.

[julianf]

Hey Julian,

Sounds great but are you sure it is the best option?After the whole explanation before on the pro

and contras you made me think otherwise...unless wilba assured you of the fact that it is a good thing to do?

Hedi

I think you mis understand me - im not talking of making threadded blinds in those positions - im talking about cutting 2mm recesses, the same as the other mounting positions.

If you look at this file -

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?hash=7ff190&media=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mb6582.org%2Fwilba_mbseq_plans%2Fwilba_mbseq_pcb_dimensioned.pdf

The positions are all marked (thank you wilba : )

Some of the hole positions Wilba made to be threadded blinds in his fpd file (these i will cut as 2mm recesses, as explained above) and some of these positions the wiki suggests to use 10mm spacers and create a surface-to-surface epoxy bond. These type of bonds are not that strong, however...

I can see why Wilba left them off [as in left them off as extra threadded blinds] the fpd file, as adding 21 (as per the photo in the wiki) threadded blinds from FPE would increase the cost still more (Euro 17.28 extra with tax)

So, what i was saying is that i could cut them as per the other holes, all to 2mm deep, so you use the same 12mm spacers through out, but just have more mounting points. Its probably un-necisary as a chain is only as strong as its weakest link anyhow, but there was interest above, so i can cut them if required. Indeed, if they are cut you dont have to use them!

and about the extra spacer holes, will be nice if you can do them ;), btw what's the diameter of this holes?, just checking to be sure I get the proper spacers from Mouser

Ill check for you, but, basically, i grabbed a spacer from my parts cabinate, measured it along the largest span, and added a bit to take account for differences in peoples availible parts (remember the switches / switch caps are used to locate the points in the resin so these are not ment to be a tight fit or anything - theres probably about half to one mm or so to play with)

[gtxdude]

Julian, per your PM last night: i'll take one. flat black w/green lettering.

Thanks a bunch!

gtxdude

[julianf]

Julian, per your PM last night: i'll take one. flat black w/green lettering.

Thanks a bunch!

gtxdude

Thank you. You have been added to the list.

The list is now closed.

I will upload some photos here when the panels are made, and speak with those on the list privatly about delivery etc.

Thank you for the interest,

Julian

[julianf]

Just a brief note to say that evreyone's panels are now done : )

The job took longer than id have liked, but the plus side is that my margin for error (in that i bought extra metal, in case many went wrong) did not get used up, so i do have a few spares.

Before i start packing / invoicing etc i still want to give these acrylic windows a go -

Ill see if i cant pick up some material for them this evening, and, if they work out, i will include them with the panels without additonal charge.

[Echopraxia]

Please put me down for one spare.

I think I like the green the best. Is it easy to read?

I would like it without the rack ears (the standard 17" (I think) if that is possible.

Gonna stick it in this case when i get the money for it.

My link

Edited April 1, 2010 by Echopraxia

[julianf]

I have cut some acrylic windows for the panels -

In photo one, it looks like there is no screen, but its in place, there is just no reflection.

The panels and the screens are cut so there is a 1mm recess on the front (which will hopefully serve to protect the windows a little too), and at the rear it is flush.

The windows turned out ok, but im a little unsatisfied, as the acrylic marks ever so easily, and i have to take the backing off to cut them. I even managed to mark one quite badly wiping it with a duster! (i threw this one out)

Any marks are less significant than a fingerprint though, but i guess im just fussy. Anyway, ill be including the windows for free with all of these orders. I honestly think youll be quite happy with them, but, if not, nothing lost on your behalf : )

I will start packing these for shipping and sending out payment requests.

Thank you,

Julian

[philetaylor]

Hi Julian. Did you happen to do a couple of spare windows ??? :)

Cheers

Phil

[julianf]

yes, and no...

i did cut extra, but wasnt happy with a lot of them, so, although i have extra, theyre not 1st class.

youre welcome to a couple if you want them?

one thing to note -

your panel was cut to wilbas spec, without so much alteration. I think the countersink on your panels window was 1.5mm, rather than the 2.0mm im now cutting. This meens that the rear of the window will sit proud of the back of the panel by 0.5mm.

How bad are your current windows? Ive probably got about 4 or 5 spare (ie 2.5 sets) and i can go through them to get the best out of them for you, but i dont know if they will be better than what you have at the moment?

Ive learnt from cutting these -

the acrylic is weak, and scratches very easily

the protective film is loose, and comes off easily (too easy for cutting through)

so, what id do in future (not that im really wanting to make any more of these panels just yet!) is take off all the backing, and cover the acrylic with brown packing tape, which will stick harder to the surface, and enable me to cut through it, without anything (chippings etc) being 'blown' across the surface.

the brown tape would then have to be removed, and probably cleaned off with solvents.

Edited April 6, 2010 by julianf

[julienvoirin]

dear julianf

do you have extra window acrylic for the panel i bought you (now assembled :)) ?

best regards

[julianf]

i did cut extras intending to give some away to previous customers (like you and phil, etc) but a lot of the acrylic didnt turn out so well (see comments above), so, in the end, i ended up without as many as i wanted.

if i ever cut more, i will able to cut them better, without any surface damage, but itll just take longer, and, as i was doing these ones for free anyhow, im afraid i did not feel inclined to go back and do them all again : /

[oshidash]

Julian we' ve already talked about my interest via mail, so this may be sort of redundant, but just to fulfill formalities I'd like to state in public that I'd like to order one SEQ-Panel (white).

Okay, now I'm comitted :)

oshidash, Germany