Midifying Saxaphone

[MidiSax]

Hi guys. Don't know if this is the correct forum but here goes. I got this idea of midifying a saxaphone ( something like EWI). I stumbled accros the uCapps website and that was me hooked. Now I'm a total newbie when it comes to MIDI so please bear with me....

Q1: Has anybody done this with MIDIbox already? (Or something similar)

Q2: Which would be the best application to use as a base to work from.

I've already built the MBHP core with a 18F452,1x DIN module and 2x20 display. Downloaded MIDIO128 app (which I thought would be a good point to start??)which seems to be working fine. Getting the midi events displayed and also output to the MDI Out port.

Which brings me to Q3: On a sax you do not have one key dedicated to one note ie. several keys make up one note. Do I have to revert to hardware logic or can that be done with programing.

I'm also using MIOS Studio2 but somehow what I see in the MIDIO128 Tool setup does not correspond to what happens when I give didgital inputs in DIN pins. It actually corresponds to what is written in the code midi_evnt.inc (whhich make sense. So how is the MIDIO128 Tool in MIOS Studio used.

Sorry for all the blabber and lots of questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also tnx to TK and all the other BRILLIANT minds who makes all this available to noobs like me.

I'll attach some pic's of the project at a later stage.

[sparx]

How many keys does this Sax have and how many notes are possible?

Regards

S

Edited March 20, 2010 by sparx

[julienvoirin]

you will have to write your own app , starting from the skeletton

I imagine this like :

if buttonA + button B = pushed, then play note associted to the velocity given by the AIN sensor (like those breath control of yamaha)

for the velocity you will have to use AIN section :

unsigned char velocity;

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// This function is called by MIOS when a pot has been moved

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

void AIN_NotifyChange(unsigned char pin, unsigned int pin_value) __wparam

{

velocity = pin_value

}

you should have a look at AudioCommander application as he designed some velocity curves algo

[nILS]

If you had read the sticky called you would know it's the wrong forum. I moved it accordingly ;)

[sparx]

you will have to write your own app , starting from the skeletton

I imagine this like :

if buttonA + button B = pushed, then play note associted to the velocity given by the AIN sensor (like those breath control of yamaha)

for the velocity you will have to use AIN section :

unsigned char velocity;

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// This function is called by MIOS when a pot has been moved

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

void AIN_NotifyChange(unsigned char pin, unsigned int pin_value) __wparam

{

velocity = pin_value

}

you should have a look at AudioCommander application as he designed some velocity curves algo

Or for simple note on/off use an EPROM. Each button from the Sax tied to the EPROM inputs. EPROM outputs to Digital In board. When, for example, buttons 1 and 2 are pressed, the contents of this address will be at the output which you could use to drive the DIn board.

Downside is no velocity.

S

[MidiSax]

Or for simple note on/off use an EPROM. Each button from the Sax tied to the EPROM inputs. EPROM outputs to Digital In board. When, for example, buttons 1 and 2 are pressed, the contents of this address will be at the output which you could use to drive the DIn board.

Downside is no velocity.

S

Hi guys,

Tnx for the great ideas. I like the EPROM idea as it's easier and I'm not too bright with programing (I'm already in trouble for posting in the wrong forum....see what I mean :) ) would like the functionality of velocity though. So back to learning programing I suppose.

The sax have 21 keys (DIN) with 2 analog inputs - 1 for velocity and 1 for pitch bending (bite sensor, could be resistance foam or something similar)

Will have a look at the Audio Commander application as well tnx Julien!

Regards

[Shuriken]

You should have a look at this website: The Electronic Sound-House

This guy has made a wind controller himself. He has all the schematics online. But i can tell you now it's not an easy task.

[MidiSax]

You should have a look at this website: The Electronic Sound-House

This guy has made a wind controller himself. He has all the schematics online. But i can tell you now it's not an easy task.

Very good site, tnx! Total information overload!! Will have to sleep on it and re think my strategy in the morning! Still think the MBHP is brilliant as a base for the whole project. That guy just confirmed a lot of my ideas especially for the "wind" part of the controller. He's obviously done a lot of research on the subject. So why re-invent the wheel. Are definitely going to incorporate some of those ideas!

Regards

[offe]

Very good site, tnx! Total information overload!! Will have to sleep on it and re think my strategy in the morning! Still think the MBHP is brilliant as a base for the whole project. That guy just confirmed a lot of my ideas especially for the "wind" part of the controller. He's obviously done a lot of research on the subject. So why re-invent the wheel. Are definitely going to incorporate some of those ideas!

Regards

Really interesting idea, please keep me/us updated on the progress. I played the sax years ago and still remembers the day I saw the Casio midi version at my local music shop. Back then I didn't have the money, now I don't have the time...

[Vytantus]

Great idea! goodluck with it tho :)

here something a little similar you may/may not have stumbled across > http://synthophone.info/indexh.htm

It looks and sounds great (if you've got a few k laying around).

If this comes off the ground i hope the MIDIbox charm can make it affordable. Will be watching very intently for developments ;)

Also the website Shuriken linked too is fair amazing. the "Son of Stealth" sounds very versatile by way of sensory input. Some really great ideas there.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Vytantus

[MidiSax]

Great idea! goodluck with it tho

here something a little similar you may/may not have stumbled across > http://synthophone.info/indexh.htm

It looks and sounds great (if you've got a few k laying around).

If this comes off the ground i hope the MIDIbox charm can make it affordable. Will be watching very intently for developments ;)

Also the website Shuriken linked too is fair amazing. the "Son of Stealth" sounds very versatile by way of sensory input. Some really great ideas there.

Had a look at that site. Looks stunning. I was only trying something VERY basic. But you know how it goes, one thing leads to another and before you know you've spend much more time and money on the project than what you've anticipated!! But thats part of the fun I suppose..... Will try and keep up to date on my blog.

Regards

[reincarnate]

It seems to me you've got a few options which you can do incrementally and prove each step.

First I'd consider just using a DIN unit and a core, and create a button for the first 3 fingers on each hand. This would enable you to play anything in C and get a feel for how it would work at minimum cost. Even after I would not model the bottom B/Bb keys, and for a simple prototype I'd also probably ignore the bottom C key, and left hand high D/D#/E/F/F# keys. Instead of a single octave key I'd recommend you have some down octave-up octave keys where you would normally put your thumb. This is the way the Yamaha WX5 works, and it can give you something like 8 octaves. Your best bet is to then work out in software which note to output depending on the keys and the octave keys which would be a lot easier than doing it in hardware. Just as a starter you could mount the buttons on a broom handle or similar just so you can check the software. This would give you a useful and cheap prototype. The WX5 also has a thumbwheel where your right thumb would normally sit on the sax, and you could assign this to pitch wheel or modulation wheel. Once you are happy with all of this at minimum cost, you could then think about having it on a more ergonomic body, adding the left hand high key cluster, and how to deal with the breath note-on/note off. I suspect breath velocity, and trying to simulate the lip bend will be more difficult. I'd probably leave the lip bend until last. Also be warned that you get a lot of queues on how to lip your note through vibrations through your head, and you don't get this sort of feedback on a midi-sax, making tuning hard.

You could make the breath a simple on/off at the beginning and use one of the remaining inputs on the DIN module, just to see how it goes. Once you've got all that working then I'd think again about the air velocity and how to measure it.

If you're thinking about midifying a real sax, then you could use the same software for deciding on the note played but with actuators on the main keys. But the challenge here would be trying to stop the reed buzzing.

I hope this gives you a more simple starting point.

[MidiSax]

hi reincarnate.

Tnx for the post. Have put the project on the backburner a bit due to a lack of programing knoledge!! If you look at my blog you'll see what I have so far. Very close to what you've sugested! 1x core with DIN module and 10 swithes (5 for right hand and 4 for left hand + 1 octave for LH). Am looking for someone localy (or online...) that could give some guidance on the programing. As I realise the guys on here are all busy with their own projects and can't realy teach programing. I got some program going with with my limited knowledge and had some sucsess but you can only get so far on limited knowledge before you need seriuos help...

Will let you know however when I get any further.

Best regards