Starting The SID Project

[NorthernLightX]

...Now I just hope that those soon-to-arrive flat 3mm LEDs will fit through those holes...

They will. Those are proper 3mm holes. Don't forget to start with the whole JB-weld thing before you do anything else with the frontpanel/PCB combo, even more so with flat head LEDs. Read the WIKI for the walkthrough.

[rosch]

yes yes, so true. i'm trying to figure out how to do the JB welding correctly now that the boards are all completed (except for the leds, that i've desoldered again)

i always think next time i read everything in advance, but it happens again and again :p

[kristal=]

Regarding the bulk order, where do I sign up for that?

Still in the making, I'm currently very lazy. :sleep:

But check out this thread:

[Scifo]

Where can I find instructions how to build the base board? Everything from SmashTV has arrived now.

[Johey]

Parts list: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_6582_parts_list

Base PCB construction guide: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_6582_base_pcb_construction_guide

 

These links are not always easy to find. Here is the source: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_6582

[Scifo]

Thanks, Johey.

 

Does this LCD have the right measurements and requirements?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170440870233?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[NorthernLightX]

That display looks like it has the standard dimensions, but without a datasheet you will never know...

[Scifo]

Status updated:

My Dad finally finished the both boards and I shipped the C64 9 V PSU to him (we live in different countries).

He has, with a multimeter, confirmed that the PSU is working.

R40-R55 and T2-T9 are in position.

 

When booting the box, all the LEDs are flashing up, then dies out (correct behavior?), BUT the LCD display shows no text - only background lights up, and stays on.

When Dad is measuring the boards, there's 5V on most places, EXCEPT the LEDs, they have 1.6V.

 

We need some advice on where to start looking for errors.

(photage of boards and front coming up)

 

We followed Hawkeye's tutorial pretty much exactly as was written (not that this is a guarantee in a DIY-project :)

 

Thanks in advance.

 

/Scifo

Edited April 21, 2013 by Scifo

[Scifo]

 

Edited April 21, 2013 by Scifo

[ilmenator]

Turn the contrast pot for the LCD some and see if text appears.

[Scifo]

Where is that pot located?

[ilmenator]

IIRC then it is in the lower right area of the board.

[Scifo]

We manage to read the LCD now.

For a second it reads "MIOS V1.9g © 2009 T.Klose"

Then it turns to "READY."

Still, the LEDS only flashes up on start-up, then nothing.

Is 1.6 V enough on the LEDs?

Is there a board schematics showing how much voltages should be expected across the board?

 

We need to find out why the LED doesn't stay on.

 

Thanx for all help.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Scifo

[TK.]

Now it's time to upload the .hex file of the MIDIbox SID V2 application. :)

 

Bst Regards, Thorsten.

[Scifo]

OK!

Are there detailed instructions anywhere how to do this?

So the LEDs will start working when the application is loaded?

 

DANKE alot, TK, for your quick respons.

[TK.]

Here are the detailed instructions for uploading an application: http://www.ucapps.de/mios_bootstrap_newbies.html

Here is also a walkthrough for MBSID for the case that you haven't seen it yet: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_walkthrough.html

 

 

 

So the LEDs will start working when the application is loaded?

 

Hopefully! (crossing fingers)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Scifo]

In the "MIDI IN" and "MIDI OUT" menues in MIOS Studios, I am not seeing the Midibox option there. I can only choose my internal sound card "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" or the USB-midi device (the cables I'm connecting the Midibox to).

I've tried uploading the .hex file using both options, but nothing. I don't see the Core-info in the Query-window, and the upload stops automatically when I start it.

I'm checking midi troubleshooting guide, but can't come up with anything.

 

Suggestions?

[Scifo]

When I boot up the Midibox, I get information in the MIOS Studios MIDI IN window such as:

[2893.266] 83 00 00   Chn# 4  Note Off c-2  Vel:0

 

and sometimes:

 

[2893.267] 83 00 00   Chn# 4  Note Off c-2  Vel:0

 

When switching OFF the Midibox, this information came:

[3035.348] 83 16 00   Chn# 4  Note Off a#1  Vel:0

[TK.]

In the "MIDI IN" and "MIDI OUT" menues in MIOS Studios, I am not seeing the Midibox option there

 

the PIC has no integrated USB-MIDI interface, accordingly it can't report the interface name...

 

 

 

I can only choose my internal sound card "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" or the USB-midi device (the cables I'm connecting the Midibox to).

 

correct - you've to select the MIDI IN/OUT port of your MIDI interface which is connected to the PIC

 

 

 

I've tried uploading the .hex file using both options, but nothing. I don't see the Core-info in the Query-window, and the upload stops automatically when I start it.

 

Upload won't work if even the Query function doesn't work (which checks the bidirectional connection)

 

 

 

I'm checking midi troubleshooting guide, but can't come up with anything.

 

You mean this one? http://www.ucapps.de/howto_debug_midi.html

 

For remote diagnosis we have to know the outcome of each test in such a form:

 

TEST PC1: done, ok

TEST MIDI1: done, ok

TEST MIDI2: done, ok

TEST OUT1: ...

 

 

 

When I boot up the Midibox, I get information in the MIOS Studios MIDI IN window such as:

[2893.266] 83 00 00   Chn# 4  Note Off c-2  Vel:0

 

so, TEST OUT1 seems to fail

What about TEST PC1, TEST MIDI1 and TEST MIDI2?

And the remaining tests if TEST OUT1 is working for some reason (because you found the problem, but Query still doesn't work)

 

Another important question: is your MIDI Interface on the blacklist? -> http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=midi_interface_blacklist

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Scifo]

The loopback doesn't seem to work. Since I'm using a USB-MIDI-interface it's not possible to plug the midi cables physically IN nor OUT from the computer, but I guess the loopback test should work anyway.
Same with SysEX transfer - no ping arrives when typing something in the command window.

 

The USB MIDI interface is a german goobay.de brand, bought in a shop in Sweden, http://www.kjell.com/sortiment/dator-kringutrustning/datortillbehor/keyboard-midi-ljud/midi-ljud/midi-interface-till-usb-p38862

 

It could well be that this USB MIDI Interface is crap.

[TK.]

It could well be that this USB MIDI Interface is crap.

 

Unfortunately I've to confirm that this one won't work, it doesn't support SysEx transfers.

 

Some time ago I tested it by myself (-> http://www.amazon.de/KORN-MIDI-USB-INTERFACE-Kabel/dp/B001383XTS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1367270045&sr=8-2&keywords=midi+interface ), there is no workaround. :-(

 

Some people started a Whitelist which helps to find a reliable interface: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=midi_interface_whitelist

With some luck you will be able to buy such an interface second-hand from Ebay (to save some money)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Scifo]

Just what I thought.

The situation is, that my Dad is the one who has built the Midibox, and he lives in Sweden, and I live in Finland.

Here, I have a Pro Tools system with an Mbox audio interface, and I'm sure the Sys-Ex is working on this one.

I could of course ask my Dad to send the Midibox here to me, so I could do the uploading. But we really would like to test the Midibox before he sends it here, since HE is the one who knows about hardware, soldering, voltage etc...

Well, that is OUR problem, and we'll find out a way :)

 

Thanx for the help so far. Good to come to a conclusion of the USB Midi interface.

 

I let you know about our progress. We're not giving up!

 

/Scifo

[Scifo]

Ok, I got some new info. It seems like my father didn't give up on the USB midi interface and did some tweaking by himself. He is where we are now:

 

Dad found a section about the jumpers and took some action, and it seems like he missed out on this earlier:

This section: "J11 at the bottom of the board is used to switch which PIC's serial output is connected to the MIDI Out. You use this during uploading of MIOS and the MB-SID V2 firmware to each PIC. Place a jumper vertically across two pins to switch between the PICs 1,2,3,4 (1 is the master, on the right). Leave the jumper in position 1 when you've finished. All PICs receive the same MIDI In, which is OK during uploads and the MB-SID V2 firmware also requires them all connected to MIDI In. I've labeled this 1,2,3,4 and the Cores/PICs are identified 1,2,3,4 but the device IDs you burn into the PIC are 0,1,2,3."

 

So it seems like the PICS were wrong positioned earlier, cause we did some progress in MIOS Studios now:

After messing around with ID numbers (Querying on MIOS Studios), my dad managed to establish some sort of contact between MIOS Studios and the PICS and managed to upload the hex-file 4 times (one for each PIC).

 

We got the message "Application is up and running" in MIOS Studios. (let me clearify here that we've NEVER received the message "Bootloader is up and running")

 

Now, when booting up the synth, it plays a quick 8-note arpeggio, 3 leds are on and the display reads:

 

E002 PInt. Ld Chn. 1

1---- Lead Patch

 

We're able to play the synth from a midi-keyboard controller, but no matter how much we tweak the knobs, the sound never changes.

The 3rd button under the display activates the LFO-menu, and the 4th button toggles the waveform.

 

Uploading the .hex-file without having the "Bootloader is up and running" message wasn't probably a good idea, and I really hope nothing has been broken by doing so.

 

I also started to think of the possibility that the Bootloader is missing in the PICs, even though I bought it from SmashTV?

 

 

What would be our next step? Please help.

 

Best regards

 

Scifo

[Scifo]

When starting up MIOS Studios with the Midibox connected, this is how the MIOS Studios look like.

 

IS there a possibilty that the hex-file has been uploaded correctly, and that the Midibox is working, and it's just that Dad doesn't yet know how to change the sound?

I suspect this, because when I hear the sound that he is playing, by controlling the Midibox with a midi-keyboard, the sound is identical with the sound that is being previewed in the SID Manual section "The fun begins..." first sound example. Same waveform, same sort of sound.

Is it correct that only 3 leds should be lit when starting up the Midibox? If so, it might be all good and I just have to guide my Dad through the manual how to edit the sound. If we just can get the sound to change, I'm pretty sure that all is working well.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Scifo

[TK.]

Oh, these are very good news!

It seems that everything is installed properly: the bootloader, MIOS and the MIDIbox SID Application, otherwise you wouldn't hear any sound at all.

 

Now you would always be able to update the application via MIDI (if you want), but I guess that you are already using the latest firmware.

 

 

 

I suspect this, because when I hear the sound that he is playing, by controlling the Midibox with a midi-keyboard, the sound is identical with the sound that is being previewed in the SID Manual section "The fun begins..." first sound example. Same waveform, same sort of sound.

 

yep!

 

 

 

Is it correct that only 3 leds should be lit when starting up the Midibox? If so, it might be all good and I just have to guide my Dad through the manual how to edit the sound. If we just can get the sound to change, I'm pretty sure that all is working well.

 

No, much more LEDs should be lit: (SID)1, L, R, Meter, the selected waveform, oscillator, LFO, Envelope, Controls, etc...

 

Whenever a button is pushed (e.g. the oscillator or LFO or ENV selection button), the LCD should jump to the configuration page.

This is an important test to ensure, that the CS is connected properly.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.