MB-SID planning thread

[Arvex]

Hello,

I've been looking at the MIDIbox SID stuff for a while with the intent to one day build a MIDIbox SID. That day is just a little closer now that I finally have a keyboard with MIDI ports again (wouldn't believe how picky I am with keyboards.) I tend to plan my projects months before I actually start working on them, so this might not start for a while.

This is not only my first MIDIbox project, but would be my first real electronics project I've undertaken. (I put together a few hobby kit electronics kits that my dad bought me when I was a kid, but that was it, but I do know how to solder.) This is going to be a learning experience for me, which means I'm going to take it slow while I learn everything along the way (this is the best way for me to learn stuff)

The plan right now is to get a single SID chip which will be controlled from my keyboard, my keyboard doesn't have a sequencer so I don't think I'll have much use for multiple SIDs at this point (might get a second one for stereo later.) For the case, I'm either going to use a PT-10 or an actual C64 case, depends on what I find in the market of damaged/broken C64 parts. I plan to make my own front panel by hand since I don't feel like paying for an expensive machined one.

Here's what I think I need:

-6581 Chip (important)

-C64 PSU or other compatible power supply (and matching jack)

-Either a PT-10 or C64 case

-Front panel material

-2x20 LCD

-Core8 kit (with MIDI jacks and PIC18F4685)

-SID module kit

-LEDs

-2 audio jacks (in and out)

-24LC512 (bank stick)

-Rotary Encoders (1 undetented and 14 detented, right?)

What I'm not sure about yet:

-Buttons, not sure what kind(s)

-Boards for the control panel? I can't seem to find anything for what I need to make the control panel and what needs to be wired up to it.

-DIN and DOUT modules?

-SIL and DIL pin headers and IDC connectors?

-Ribbon cables, do I just need one of each? Are these only used for connecting the MB-SID to the Core?

Anyways, I have a few questions I wanted to ask to help me figure out what I need.

-I'm trying to make a price estimate so I know how much to budget for this, but I keep finding things that I'm missing or weren't needed in the first place. I'm going to leave out the cost of any C64 stuff (SID, PSU, case, etc.) since the prices on those can vary. I'm not sure what I'm missing and what I don't need that I listed above.

-I have no idea how the control panel is set up

-Because of the cost of a machined front panel (over $200 everywhere I looked), I'm actually going to make the panel myself with a drill, a Dremel tool and a file (for the LCD slot) and use acid etching (with help from someone who has done this before) to make my front panel. Is there a recommended thickness of the aluminum for the panel?

-I'm planning on having this hooked up to a keyboard that doesn't have a sequencer, should I just go with a single SID chip or is there any use for multiple SID chips when there is only one device controlling it? I was thinking of making a separate MB-6582 unit if I ever get a sequencer.

-I actually had this interesting idea in my head where I find an old dedicated MIDI controller keyboard or broken keyboard (with enough room for a modified front panel), find a way to fit the MB-SID stuff in there and wire it all up and have it look like a standalone unit. Any recommendations on how this would be done? Or am I the mayor of Crazytown? (This would be a later project and would probably be a mix of multiple DIY MIDI controller and keyboard kits, still researching this idea just wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction)

[rosch]

welcome,

you could get a pcb pair and base pcb kit from smashTV, that's the only premade control surface solution i know of (besides sammichSID)

the frontpanel for this will be some precision work if you make this yourself.

you can always do it with individual boards too. you will find out what is connected where when you study the interconnection pdf's and the docu pdf's for the required modules on www.ucapps.de

you can also make your own control surface board with perfboard and use whatever switches you like.

[Labelwhore]

You could always use Ponoko for a front panel. It's extremely easy and pretty inexpensive too.

[Hawkeye]

While building from scratch with modules sure is great, it may be viable to invest in a MB6582 baseboard... it already integrates 4x Core, 4x SID (stereo), a passive output mix section, the necessary DIN and DOUTs and headers for a control surface (button and led matrices) in one not so big and not so expensive PCB.

You can nicely play all 4 cores (= 8x SIDs) with one keyboard (in polyphonic mode) - it sounds great. You can start small with a single SID, and then stuff it with more SIDs, later on.

Many greets,

Peter

Edited December 5, 2012 by Hawkeye

[NorthernLightX]

If you want more than one SID: read Hawkeyes post again :)

If you only want one SID and/or want to go the separate module road: read my post in the fleamarket, I have some stuff for sale which should give you a head start. :thumbsup:

[Arvex]

I was planning to buy most of my parts from SmashTV and buying the parts he doesn't sell from electronics parts suppliers out here.

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure about anything on the flea market because I don't know when I'm going to start this project.

I'm thinking that might not be a bad idea, I didn't take polyphony into account and I also (wrongly) assumed that I would need to start with all eight SID chips to run one of these. Problem is that I looked at the MB-6582 as something for people who have made an MB-SID before, I'm a little concerned that this might be a lot more complicated to set up than the MB-SID (but that might just be me being a little intimidated by the larger board.)

I was going to say the price difference scared me a little, but after a second look at the combined price of a SID module and Core, the MB-6582 board sounds a lot more reasonable.

Another thought that came to mind... Would the MB-6582 main board fit in a C64 shell or is it too big?

I'll check this Ponoko thing out, too. If I can make my panel for under $80, then I might just go with that. My plan for the panel was to just print up the frontpanel .fpd file at 1:1 scale and use that as my template, use my dad's drill press to get the holes for buttons and rotary encoders/knobs and to start the hole from the LCD and to acid etch all of the text and lines/details.

For future reference, assume cost is only a secondary issue to me because I'm in no hurry and can always save for another few weeks/months more to get something nicer. The front panel is just a little steep for me when I think I can make it myself.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Arvex

[Hawkeye]

Yes, the MB6582 baseboard fits in the C64 breadbin... In fact, TK. had one inside his Commodore case (before that, it was a module based setup and it was quite full in there ;-)) with a DIY frontpanel on vero board...

Many greets and have fun building!

Peter

Edited December 6, 2012 by Hawkeye

[Arvex]

That many cables is quite intimidating to my simple mind (kind of funny because I build my own computers...)

Are those just prototyping boards with the buttons and rotary encoders soldered down or is there more stuff between them and the boards?

Huh, I think I saw that picture before and it didn't quite register for some reason that I was looking at a C64 case with an MB 6582 in it. Not sure I like the idea of the holes from the C64 case showing like that, I think I will go with the PT-10 and might see able pulling the logo off the C64 case (if I happen to get my hands on a broken C64) and gluing it on to the PT-10.

[Arvex]

I don't mean to double post, but I found the pdf's Rosch was talking about (finally.) Unless I want to make the DIN and DOUT boards myself, it looks like I would have to order 2 DOUTX4 board and three DINX4 boards for a full control surface (unless there is a DINX2 on another site)

[NorthernLightX]

I don't mean to double post, but I found the pdf's Rosch was talking about (finally.) Unless I want to make the DIN and DOUT boards myself, it looks like I would have to order 2 DOUTX4 board and three DINX4 boards for a full control surface (unless there is a DINX2 on another site)

You can use a DINX4 and DOUTX4 PCB and just stuff only the components you need, for example 1, 2 or 3 of the shift registers and only the resistor(networks) that are for the specific IC.

[Sim]

Oh, okay so let me make sure I understand. With the MB-6582 you don't need core, DIN/DOUT, or SID modules?

[Hawkeye]

Oh, okay so let me make sure I understand. With the MB-6582 you don't need core, DIN/DOUT, or SID modules?

Correct. That MB6582 baseboard also renders all these connection wires between the modules obsolete, generally resulting in a more "clean" build.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Hawkeye

[Sim]

Thanks Hawkeye. I know the general rule is to read all of the documentation before asking questions which I have done, but I felt like some of the information was conflicting. I appreciate your help, and the help of all the others here at the forums. I'm excited to start building once I get my full order ready.