ChinMuzik Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 ilesj.wordpress.com/2016/04/24/swinsid Really exciting stuff! Almost pulled the trigger on two 8580, but had to refrain after reading this. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogi Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Thanks for the post, had been watching the swinSID for awhile, off and on, but hadn't seen this before. The comparisons on kompjut0r's blog are very interesting and sound good. I went ahead and ordered a pair for some empty sockets on my MB-6582 :) The 'downside' - the cost is about the same as a SID so if you want 100% SID sound you should hunt up some tested pulls. Also, some of the added improvements are not needed for Midibox use so added complexity with little return for this sub-set community. The 'upside' - modern parts and active FW development; should be available for awhile. Tuning is improved so should sound better alongside real SIDs. Yogi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 keep in mind that the output level is WAY lower than the real deal. Deal breaker for me, I returned mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinMuzik Posted June 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, Altitude said: keep in mind that the output level is WAY lower than the real deal. Deal breaker for me, I returned mine. You've tested a SwinSID ultimate? I was aware of the lower output on the original Swin, and I did notice the waveform comparisons for the ultimate are indeed lower output than the original.. but enough to be a dealbreaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) In a mixed sid/swinsid, yeah, deal breaker. Unless the level issue is specifically addressed in this rev, i wouldn't bother. Waveforms/resolution/whatever make no difference if it's half the volume of the real thing Edited June 27, 2016 by Altitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogi Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 22 hours ago, Altitude said: In a mixed sid/swinsid, yeah, deal breaker. Unless the level issue is specifically addressed in this rev, i wouldn't bother. Waveforms/resolution/whatever make no difference if it's half the volume of the real thing I see your point with a SSU and a real SID in a stereo pair. In my case a pair of SSUs on one of the MB-6582 stereo channels, seems like just adjusting the passive mixing resistors or a simple pre amp would do. And if I were to mix external it's just setting the levels different on one of the mixer channels. Finding a tested pair of SIDs is a challenge that's only getting harder and the SSU is a faithful emulation for the most part. It's not 100% but it's close and allows you to build a 'SID inspired' synth using the MIOS code base :) Yogi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Hola, I also really like the effort, it is probably really hard work to develop a faithful emulation on these small microcontrollers! How is the noise level compared to the original? Is it lower? That would be a unique selling point - otherwise, for now, at least in Germany you can still get 8580s without going bankrupt! :-) (But it is true, the price will only rise - when i build my MB6582 some six years ago, the price was around 20€ each, now it is at least 25€ :-)). Many greets! Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogi Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 3 hours ago, Hawkeye said: Hola, I also really like the effort, it is probably really hard work to develop a faithful emulation on these small microcontrollers! How is the noise level compared to the original? Is it lower? That would be a unique selling point - otherwise, for now, at least in Germany you can still get 8580s without going bankrupt! :-) (But it is true, the price will only rise - when i build my MB6582 some six years ago, the price was around 20€ each, now it is at least 25€ :-)). Many greets! Peter From the recordings at this blog http://kompjut0r.blogspot.fi/2016/04/c64-sid-shootout-part-4-sid-8580-vs.html Beyound the diffrences in volume, the SSU is slightly less 'punchy' but not really bad. Looking at the scope trace over there- Some of the SSU peaks are not as sharp. The other trace for the Lazy Jones clip shows a little more differences in sub harmonics but again listening (my ear and interweb recording) the differences are hardly detectable. As you point out, the cost is about the same to a real SID, so yea it's a bit of a toss up. Either risk buying 40 year old chips or give up a (very?) small amount of quality. Yogi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinMuzik Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Does the SSU have a sine wave? I don't recall if the original swinSIDs do. I'd love a sine wave in a SID build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lis0r Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I'm slightly disappointed that the FM mode seems to have been ditched. It was always going to be pretty basic 2-op stuff, but some of the demos of the old SwinSID sounded pretty good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonas Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 As soon as someone (like @yogi!) has information on how it works with MBSIDv2, please let us know! Is it a 100% drop-in replacement, or does it need setting up etc..? Some guy has written a configuration program for it (on a C64), would it be necessary to use to make adjustments or can you do without it etc..? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogi Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Getting close to shipping so will let you know. As far as the setup, it does have some options meant to be changed via C64. http://csdb.dk/release/?id=149816 For use in a MBsid, would either have to pre-configure it on C64 (would be a bit of a pain) or add extensions to the PIC firmware. Would like to be able to choose SID type and channel muting at runtime. Not sure the default config, so have to work that out when I get them in hand :) Yogi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonas Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Thanks for the info! _b If all configuration options are available in the screen shot at your link, the maker of the emulator chips could probably be asked to make the preferred settings when purchasing the chips from him. Also, if someone has an opinion whether SSU sounds better than SS nano, I'd be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogi Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Hey jjonas, I was 'talking' with Swinsid Ultimate on his FB page https://www.facebook.com/swinsidultimate/?fref=nf After some (language?) confusion, I found the default settings in the manual http://www52.zippyshare.com/v/OLcZSuqW/file.html By default: 8580, Audio In disabled, PAL timing, Start Beep on, LED normal. The Audio In is disabled by default to improve the noise floor. Beware that the Audio In isn't pure analog, rather it's in to an ADC. Then it can be mixed with the DCO outs before the PWM DAC or read by the C64. So some of the Audio In filter tricks aren't going to work as expected. The LED stuff is really not much of a useful feature, to me, but if you like blinkin' panel lights it either pull the LED high or sinks the LED. BUT I've been pondering the timing settings. Seeing as the SSU isn't tied to the CLK (either from the C64 or the MB), what setting would be best for MBSid tuning? In other words, does the MB sim a NTSC or a PAL clock? Or somewhere in the middle? And I got the impression that Swinsid Ultimate would/might accommodate requests for changes to the defaults before shipping. Yogi Edited August 10, 2016 by yogi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SounDuke Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 I ordered 2 boards, as yogi said and the SSU developer confirmed pal and ntsc are not exactly 1Mhz while TK states that in mbsid the sid receives 1Mhz from Core::J7:SO/PIC Pin #17. The sid will need tuning, but I'd rather tune all the other instruments to the sid instead :D As soon as I receive them I will try them and let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.