AOUT Alternative - Expert Sleepers Fader Host

[Rowan]

Something that has always bugged me about the line driver/liner receiver solution for CV/GATE outs on the MBSEQ is that there is no easy way of isolating the 5V supply that is feed down the DB25 cable. I've always had the other end of the DB25 cable connected to my Eurorack case that has a local 5V supply so (in principal) I don't need 5V going down the cable. 

I needed a CV/GATE solution that isn't Line Driver/Receiver or DIN MIDI for my MBSEQ.

Today I noticed that my local modular seller was selling Expert Sleeper FH-1 (now discontinued) for a great price (Disclamer: I work for their parent company so I know how much these things cost the reseller). I thought I'd bit the bullet and see if it would solve my problem.... guess what, it did!

 I'm not going to go into any details about the set-up yet as I'm in the early testing phase but right now I've connected the USB B port from my MBSEQ to the FH-1 and all is peachy! I can control my eurorack from my MBSEQ without any fuss.

Once I've spent more time configuring the system I'll elaborate more as the Expert Sleepers FH-1's capabilities are very deep (up to 64 CV/GATE  outputs). 

[latigid on]

Interesting news! 

FWIW, my rendition of the line driver also jumpers the +5V on both ends so you can easily disconnect the supply. I suppose if we were being super fastidious it would be smart to not keep the 0V common (differential driver/receiver) and probably only connect the shield at one end. Users with the TK version could also snip the DB-25 pins.

Looking forward to the next tests!

[Zam]

Hello

17 hours ago, latigid on said:

I suppose if we were being super fastidious it would be smart to not keep the 0V common (differential driver/receiver) and probably only connect the shield at one end

Differential don't mean floating, so far MC3486/3487 are not isolated (trafo or opto)...so I suppose you need a proper and common 0V ref at both sides...

Also shield and 0V are two different things (even if it connect together somewhere eventually)

Best

Zam

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Zam

[latigid on]

As far as I know, the differential input means that there is no need for each side to reference the others' power rail, and this could be used to reduce unwanted common-mode coupling/interference. Of course the chips will need their own power, but it seems as though they could be completely independent. I'm no expert on this though.

0V and shield/ground/earth/common are very nebulous topics on the internet :). Audio cables are the bad guy here as they use the shield as the 0V.

Best,
Andy

[Elektruck]

On 14-12-2018 at 10:18 PM, Rowan said:

Once I've spent more time configuring the system I'll elaborate more as the Expert Sleepers FH-1's capabilities are very deep (up to 64 CV/GATE  outputs). 

 

I'm also very interested in this. I'm about to build a new SeqV4+ and this looks like a nice solution. I've build a breakout CV/gate module myself for the SeqV4 now, but without linedrivers, etc. I have my Aout board in my sequencer now, and I think I leave it there, so I need a new solution for the new sequencer. Looking forward to your tests!

[Zam]

 

Hello

19 hours ago, latigid on said:

the differential input means that there is no need for each side to reference the others' power rail

Sorry but no, differential mean the signal is duplicated with 180° flip at sender, meaning at the reconstruction side (receiver)

interference and external noises will be nulled.

Then there is various "option" if you want to isolate both side, like opto or transformer

But in DC coupling case you better have the same reference.

 

About the general topic and "distant" communication between our lovely MB_HP tools

I'll hope @Antichambre will chime in and talk about MCAN

I don't want to spoil his work, but I partially beta test it (MB_NG) with very promising result

 

Best

Zam

[Rowan]

5 hours ago, Elektruck said:

 

I'm also very interested in this. I'm about to build a new SeqV4+ and this looks like a nice solution. I've build a breakout CV/gate module myself for the SeqV4 now, but without linedrivers, etc. I have my Aout board in my sequencer now, and I think I leave it there, so I need a new solution for the new sequencer. Looking forward to your tests!

I spent more time messing about with it last night and I’m happy to report it’s working as expected with very little effort. The only thing I have tried yet that I’ll need is getting it to output clock signals. Other than that it’s working perfectly. It seems that it also accet modular clock signals and convert them to midi clock, very useful. 

[Elektruck]

On 16-12-2018 at 6:36 PM, Rowan said:

I spent more time messing about with it last night and I’m happy to report it’s working as expected with very little effort. The only thing I have tried yet that I’ll need is getting it to output clock signals. Other than that it’s working perfectly. It seems that it also accet modular clock signals and convert them to midi clock, very useful. 

That sounds cool, I'll try to get my hands on one. For the clock signals I made a little module with a DOUT chained after my TPD module. That works great and using a CV ouput seems a bit of an overkill, but OK if you don't use the output for CV....thanks for sharing this idea about the FH-1!

[Rowan]

1 hour ago, Elektruck said:

That sounds cool, I'll try to get my hands on one. For the clock signals I made a little module with a DOUT chained after my TPD module. That works great and using a CV ouput seems a bit of an overkill, but OK if you don't use the output for CV....thanks for sharing this idea about the FH-1!

I Had a 4xDOUT connected to a Line Reciver that I have been using for clocks and gates, it worked well but I’m trying to get away from the Line Driver/Reciver method.

I have been doing a bit more reading into how to get clock signals out of the FH-1 and the There seems to a solution that I’m yet to try. The FH-1 have An LFO avalible on each output that can be tempo synced, so the idea is to use a tempo synced square wave LFO as clock! Simple but effective. 

[Elektruck]

That sounds logical and like a good solution. I just made a deal with someone on modulargrid, so there's one coming my way :)

[Elektruck]

On 12/17/2018 at 9:45 PM, Rowan said:

I have been doing a bit more reading into how to get clock signals out of the FH-1 and the There seems to a solution that I’m yet to try. The FH-1 have An LFO avalible on each output that can be tempo synced, so the idea is to use a tempo synced square wave LFO as clock! Simple but effective. 

And did you manage to output midi synced clock signals? I recieved the module yesterday and it works perfect so far with my new SeqV4+ :) but I don't understand the lfo/clock part so far. Would be nice to get this fixed for newyears eve party...

[Rowan]

7 hours ago, Elektruck said:

And did you manage to output midi synced clock signals? I recieved the module yesterday and it works perfect so far with my new SeqV4+ :) but I don't understand the lfo/clock part so far. Would be nice to get this fixed for newyears eve party...

I’m please it worked for you.

I haven’t had a chance to try and get the LFO/Clock working yet. The documentation is poor to say the least so I think it will require some experimentation but I think it should work. It seems the easiest way to configure the module is with the web based script editor. If you haven’t come across this yet it’s here.

http://expert-sleepers.co.uk/webapps/fh1_script_generator.html

i wish you luck for your party tonight and a happy new year.

[Elektruck]

Ok, I just managed to get a midi syned square lfo output at output 7 and a start/stop on output 8. But I need 4 tracks now wich sends cc's on different midichannels to achieve this, and when I load a new song these settings are gone. So I need to save these as a default startup setting. I don't have time for this now but I'll figure it out later.

Very nice evening and new year for everyone!

[latigid on]

Have fun! Keen to see a video of the jam/performance (if available) :). Are you using the Host port (USBA) of the v4+?

Lots of people are asking for CV/gates for SEQ v4+, so I will work on a DIY solution using the intended Line Driver. I think I have a way of generating the +5V inside the Eurorack case that should avoid sending power down the DB-25. Will need to be tested of course!

Not intended to discount the FH-1 solution in any way! It's great if it works for you.

[Elektruck]

I'll try to shood a video, but that will be next year...

[Elektruck]

Hi,

I managed to get it working right on time for the party, but I didn't play there...

Here's a little table I made with all CC's I needed to send to get it right, clock on output 7 and start/stop on output 8:

	function	ch	cc	value
1	Start/stop	1	103	1
2	Midi clocked lfo	3	70	64
3	Square wave	5	102	127
4	Stop LFOs when clock stopped	13	90	1
5	PW	7	102	64
6	Ouput direct control	1	6	64

After sending these CC's I stored the setting as a preset. And after that I choose this preset to be the startup default preset. And now it always works without any hassle.

And as I promised, here's a quick video with the FH-1 and SeqV4 . Nothing special, just pluggin in and hitting start, followed by some rough tekno. I didn't test the accuracy of the outputs as I don't have good oscillators or test equipment in my living room rack. It all seems really stable but if people want tests I can try with logic analyzer and multimeter...

[Rowan]

Thanks for this!

Using presets to store this is a good idea rather than having to configure the module every time.

[Rowan]

I’ve just managed to get this configuration to work. I ended up using Midi-Ox to send the CCs you listed about as I couldn’t get it to work using the MB-SEQ to send the CCs.

I picked up a FHX-1 this week so I’ve got 16 CV Outs with the option to add another 48 channels in the future.