NorthernLightX Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 I am also going to use MIDI In and Out LEDs, but I'm going to place them on the back of the case, not the top. If they're flashing constantly they could become distracting ::) I suppose. I will place them directly abobe the corresponding MIDI ports.The connection between the Control Surface and multiple SID modules will be via the channels where normally the MIDI signals would pass through, I suppose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephult Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Hello Thorsten- I'd like to say that you have been so good to the public, for sharing your concepts, and finished work. I have been putting off my midibox for awhile trying to catch up with all these new designs, and circuits. I was wondering if this would be possible. By keeping the control surface minimal for a rack space, couldn't you implement a second PIC chip, say with 10 rotary encoders on the front panel to control different parameters that can be selectable by different banks. If so it would allow 160, different settings to be selectable. Ex. All OSC 1 control settings on bank one, OSC 2 on bank two?By doing this wouldn't you be able to keep the SID information such as patches seperate from the actual hardware setup that is going to control the SID chip?Maybe a way to update the knob values on the PIC control surface by sending patch information from the SID PIC, to the hardware surface would work? I'd like to say thanks again for all your inspiration Thorsten!!!_Sephult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Here a short summary which should answer all your questions :)The interaction between the control surface and the external SID cores will happen over common MIDI connections. Every core gets it's one device number, so that up to 16 cores can be accessed. It will be a one-way connection between MIDI OUT of the control surface and the MIDI INs of the other cores. The MIDI OUTs of the external cores will not be used, since every slave is under direct control of the master core. The SysEx commands which are necessary for this configuration have been introduced in firmware release v1.4 and they are already used by the Java editor - it's possible to send a whole sound patch to the EEPROM in between 100 mS (F0 00 00 7E 46 <device-number> 02 <patch-number> <256 bytes of dump data> F7), and to directly change parameters of the dump without writing it into the EEPROM in between 2 mS (F0 00 00 7E 46 <device-number> 06 AH AL <value> F7). The SID module which is connected directly to the control surface will be handled as virtual MIDI device (or in other words: as a VSTi ;-)) so that you don't see a difference between externaly and internaly controlled SIDWhen you select between different SIDs with the appr. button, you just select the device number...The BankStick which is attached to the control surface stores sound patches for all SIDs. It will be possible to select different patches for several SIDs. When you select a sound patch for an external SID, it will be transfered in between 100 mS to the selected SID. Maybe it will also be possible to access up to 8 BankSticks from the surface, since I noticed that the Microchip EEPROMs offer 3 chip select lines (= 8 addresses)It will also be possible to use the surface as common MIDI controller for VST instruments or whatever since there is no difference between controlling a SID slave core or any other MIDI device. Just assign your favourite MIDI events to the "assign" banks in the OSC and ENV section... I think that more than one assignable bank can be realized on the following way: hold the assign button and select one of 5 banks with the buttons below the LCD, or select it with the jog-wheel beside of the LCD. Some words to the playing modes:Single every SID will get it's own sound patch and can be assigned to the same or to different MIDI channels. Unisono also known as phat mode ;-) --- all SIDs are assigned to the same MIDI channel and will play an identical sound. Only the finetune value will be different, which results into fat leadsSplit SIDs will be controlled over the same MIDI channel, but will get different sections on the keyboard, so that you can i.e. play different percussion sounds on one channel or play a bass and a lead sound with two handsAbout variations (i.E. low-cost versions, different displays or whatever): the final surface will already be very flexible, so that it can be used with different button, LED, LCD and encoder configurations. It's planned to publish the source code for the "surface control handler" in form of a MIDIbox NG PlugIn, which can be modified for own requirements and can be uploaded over MIDI. On this way you can customize the whole surface also for other applications. I.e, it can be quickly turned to a completely different controller for a different instrument in between 1 minute :)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephult Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Thank you so much Thorsten! You pretty much summed up most of my questions regarding the handling of the SID chip. I am so ready to begin my workstation, and have already scavenged up (7) 6581 SID chips for it. I am looking forward to the Phat mode you have mentioned, I wouldn't mind experimenting with 16 chips. I will keep you posted with my project once I begin, and send you some photos when I get my design worked out. Thanks again, Awesome job, with the site reworking, and I am always looking forward to your future upgrades and projects._Sephult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 I just can't wait, I have to ask You one more question: is it correct list of modules for fully featured SIDBOX with one SID ?1 CORE with PIC18F1 SID2 DIN (1 for encoders, 1 for buttons),2 DOUT (leds & ledrings)1 LTC1 LCD1 BANKSTICKI'm just going to start work as soon as possible. Im not good in soldering and it will be long process... But it's worth it :)RegardsManiac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernLightX Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 I just can't wait, I have to ask You one more question: is it correct list of modules for fully featured SIDBOX with one SID ?1 CORE with PIC18F1 SID2 DIN (1 for encoders, 1 for buttons),2 DOUT (leds & ledrings)1 LTC1 LCD1 BANKSTICKI'm just going to start work as soon as possible. Im not good in soldering and it will be long process... But it's worth it :)RegardsManiacFor the control surface you'll need 3 DOUTX4 modules.Thorsten, the Unisono mode looks a little overkill to me, if I read correctly ALL SIDS will be controlled at once. A single SID already has 3 voices, which can be used to create a 3 layer Unisono patch, which will sound really fat, because the SID has a natural fat sound 8), but I think layering even more voices is not relly useful, or is it?The way I understand now is that one SID can only produce one sound at a time. But sometimes one OSC can produce such a fat sound you don't need the others for the same sound, and in this situation I would like to be able to use the remaining OSCs for other sounds, thus not linked to the same keys that trigger the first OSC, or is this impossible in your design?Thanks, Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 Unisono is a feature especially for the users who want to use 2 SIDs in stereo configuration. It already can be realized by detuning the pitch, but the Unisono button will make it easier. Yes, also single oscillators will be controlable over different channels or in split mode, this has already been prepared - I only need a control surface to select all these already implemented options. ;-)I won't publish a list of required modules, etc. before February, because the specs have not been frozen yet and could be changed when I begin to play with the alpha version and notice that something is missing for a perfect interaction...Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stigmata Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Question about JSynth....How can I use the editor with my 3 sids (soon 4)on the same time without go via the config and change the midi channel????Or is that impossible?Christoffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stigmata Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Question about the new control surface:Must I have the 18F452 on all Sids or can I have the good old 16F877 on the second,3,4,5,6 and so on??Christoffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Hi Christopher,I'm also missing a quick-change function in the JSynth environment. It's a general feature which has to be integrated into the core lib. If there will be no button available in the future, I will possibly add it by myself...Yes, you can re-use your PIC16F for the slave cores - I will do this as well. :)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosone Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 i too am about to build my sid synth!i will use 1 core and 1 sid module and will control everything with my PC thru CC. (no LCD, no banckstic, no knobs...)i have a quesition about power supply: which kind of adaptor should i buy (V out and ampere)? is it correct to use the same adaptor for sid and core? i was reading that sid will heat a lot during operation, i will mount a cooler on it (copper cooler or whatever i found, like the one are found on the video card) and a small fan in the rack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 I'm using a 15v 750ma wallplug (inline with a 1A fuse) to power both the core and sid, and hopefully another box...;)works fine here, sid does get a lil warm round the edges - but it does neways, i dont think u really need a fan and heatsink, the only thing i have a heatsink on is the 7805...hthDan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clae Gason Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 That is very, very cool.Hi Thorsten from another fan down under. I have a couple of questions, and I'm looking forward to building my first CORE and SID modules.If I understand correctly, I will be able to build a basic MIDIbox SID with four buttons, a rotary and an LSD for patch editing, then upgrade that to the full front panel control at a later date?Will it ever be possible to control more than one SID from a single CORE board?Also, is it possible that the controllers can send MIDI, so they can be recorded into and played back from a sequencer? This would allow a whole world of sweeping, changing textures from the SID.Lastly, could a simple 16 step sequencer be integrated into the SID firmware and the front panel, or will this really require another CORE board with the SEQ firmware?Anyway congratulations on the work so far. I love the idea of building into a C=64 case, and that is almsot certainly what I will do.Clae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted February 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Hi Clae,If I understand correctly, I will be able to build a basic MIDIbox SID with four buttons, a rotary and an LSD for patch editing, then upgrade that to the full front panel control at a later date?Yes, due to the modular concept of hardware and (PIC18F) software this will be possible. You will also be able to temporary use your box for other applications. In fact with the new MIOS concept the MIDIbox is not far away from a homecomputer! (how about an interface to the 1541?) ;-)Will it ever be possible to control more than one SID from a single CORE board?No, for every SID a dedicated core will be required. My private focus is a high-quality sound with additional, software emulated sound features. This requires CPU performance. The current MIDIbox SID implementation already loads the system about 50%. The other half is required for the realtime behaviour on incoming MIDI events (latency should be less than 2 mS). Sure, it would be possible to remove some features in order to connect more SID chips, but this is not in my interest... a PIC costs just 8 US$... ;-)Also, is it possible that the controllers can send MIDI, so they can be recorded into and played back from a sequencer? This would allow a whole world of sweeping, changing textures from the SID.Yes, this will be possible. This feature is required anyhow in order to control the "slave" cores.Lastly, could a simple 16 step sequencer be integrated into the SID firmware and the front panel, or will this really require another CORE board with the SEQ firmware?For myself this wouldn't be so usefull, since I already built al step sequencer. But the source code of the SID will be published, so that everybody is free to add and distribute his own extensions. The source code of the MIOS based MIDIbox64 SEQ will also be published...Anyway congratulations on the work so far. I love the idea of building into a C=64 case, and that is almsot certainly what I will do.Thanks :)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBunsen Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 Yes, due to the modular concept of hardware and (PIC18F) software this will be possible.Great! Thanks for the clarification.In fact with the new MIOS concept the MIDIbox is not far away from a homecomputer! (how about an interface to the 1541?) ;-)Heh, that's the C=64 floppy drive, isn't it? Personally I'd rather use a bank stick :-) I agree, the PIC must be about as powerful as the old Commie was, if not more so!No, for every SID a dedicated core will be required. What I am thinking of is a single box containing a MIDIbox64 SEQ core, with one row of 16 rotaries which can be switched to different sequences. It would also have the SID front panel controls (requiring SID board, CORE board and LCD). Think of it as a SID-303 ;DThe idea being that I would build the most basic system to begin with, and add more SID/CORE combos at a later date.Thanks once more for your splendid gift to the world. I'll do some more research on your site and work out what I need.Cheers, Clae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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