The 2x40's ( hepme .... please hepme )

[Jidis]

If anybody reads this:

I got those cheap screens today. The model numbering is kinda weird. They're not all that easy to find on those spec. sheets, or the chipsets don't match 100%.

* In that "seiko manual.pdf", they appear to have the "Reflective/EL" backlight (apprx. 5.5mm thick from the PCB). I don't know if that means there's no stock onboard lighting, or they need an inverter or what, but I figure you guys know. If they have no light, or it's extra $, I still can find uses for unlit 2x40's, for as cheap as they were.

* They look like they don't have the Thorsten "KS" chipset, which is listed in the PDF for some reason. The board has three of the regular rectangular HD surface mount IC's: (left to right) HD66100F, another HD66100F, and an HD44780A00

* On the PCB backs, under the green solder mask crap, they've got W-78,  94V-0, Seiko Japan, Rev.C, and L4042 (there's an L4041 above it, but it's crossed out with black magic marker). The aforementioned 'left to right'  IC numbering is: IC3, IC2, IC1

* There's a serial number or something, stamped in black ink, which looks different for each one. (the one I'm looking at is 5588044)

* On the left end of the fronts, they've got the usual header/connection spot. It's blank, plated, thru-holes for a standard, dual-row 14-pin (2x7). Above the 1&2/3&4 pin pairs, are another two holes marked 15&16 for the BL power, I suppose. There are the larger two square PCB pads at the far right end of the screen, but they don't check as being linked to the 15/16 pair, or any of the 2x7 pins. If they run to somewhere, I suppose it's in the center layer (no visible traces on the top or bottom).

Before I burn any up trying to make the light come on, please let me know what they can do (if you know). If they can't be used, they were cheap, and I can always throw them back on eBay, or make a "Dr.Theopolis style" necklace or something (the ladies dig that sort of stuff here).

Thanks!

George

PS- I don't know what he's done with the others, but that relisted second auction didn't sell any ( http://tinyurl.com/lxcng ). He had 10 left @ 2 for 99 cents. ( seller is- msteele32iw )

   

[NorthernLightX]

Hi George, HD44780 is an industry standard parallel controller for characted LCD's, mine has this chip too and it has worked - before I tore apart the modules and started over.

So, I'm 100% positive that the LCD can interace to your core. If the pcb-leads on the first two pins (or the last two, with reversed pinout) of the LCD module are substantially bigger than the other leads you have a good chance it includes a backlight too, no promises on that though :)

Cheers,  Alex.

[Jidis]

Alex,

Thanks!

Yeah, I knew the 44780's were good, I just couldn't figure what part those other HD's might be involved in. All my other screens here are 44780's. I think my 2x16's have two of them on them. My other 2x40's have one 44780 and 4 small "OKI"s.

My real problem is that backlight thing if anybody's familiar with it. ???

Take Care,

George 

[stryd_one]

My real problem is that backlight thing if anybody's familiar with it. ???

When I read the datasheet, I got the impression that there are different models, some with backlights, some not...

Plug one in and find out :)

[smashtv]

Just guessing here....but I have seen my share of displays...  ;)

The large square pads at the end are where an EL or LED backlight assembly would get power, if there is nothing connected there at all you probably have one built as non-backlit/reflective only.  On LED backlit displays, 15 and 16 will usually wire directly to the square pads, on -most- EL backlit displays they wont (needs a driver).

If there is a decent gap between the glass and pcb, it's probably built as reflective only (otherwise the EL element would be in the gap)

Reflective displays usally can't have a backlight added, since the reflective plate in the glass stack is opaque.

Sorry to be so general on this, If I had one in my hand I could give you all the answers. ;)

On a side note a lot of the EL elements can be lit directly powered from US 110v 60hz mains voltage....I don't recommend this at all for permanent use (heat issues, bursting into flames issues with some types that need a higher frequency drive, etc.) but tons of fun for building some "indiglo" junk..... ;)

Disclaimer: don't try this at home, especially if you don't have a chemical fire extinguisher handy for the possible fire, and a flashlight for when it pops the breaker.....tinker play like this is really stupid if you don't have a healthy fear of line voltage -and- knowledge of the worst-case-scenario....There are much more fun ways to set yourself on fire, so if you do it this way, it's not my fault!  :P

Back to the kit mill with me....

Best

Smash

[Jidis]

Thanks Guys!

@Stryd_One - Yeah, there are a few in the datasheet (3 or 4 different styles I think). This one of course is none of them. ;D

Smash- No thanks on the 110! I can't imagine doing that to something this small. :o

I tried to wire 110v up to some giant, red, Dr.Seuss looking megaphone horn thing I found in a basement once, and it started vibrating and squealing, making a horrible stinky smoke. It was face down on the carpet at the studio when I did it, and it melted this spiral ring crap through the carpet. It looks like I tried to launch a small spacecraft from the center of the room. I was coincidentally thinking about trying to fix it just yesterday. They'll probably refuse to give me my deposit back when I move out because of it, and I never even got to hear what the horn was supposed to sound like. :'(

This LCD does look like what you describe. It's the dimension of what they have as the Reflective/EL on p.35, and it's got the gap you mention between the glass and the PCB. I just grabbed a PDF on installing EL Foil under reflectives. Looks sort of fun, and the foil is around 15 bucks for a 5x6" piece in weird colors. In the PDF, they show you how to remove the opaque backing from the screen part. Looks like the dealers sell that sheet with a 12V inverter.

Wish I could swap the backlit screen of this other 2x40 I killed, but I guess that's for a micro-surgeon. I think the "brain" of it is all that's dead. I do have a test box I built for a 2x40 here, that should have no problem with the "reflective only", so I guess I'm already cool for one.

Take Care

George

PS- Why wouldn't those fools put any of the actual full  model numbers on the back? I just noticed they've also got "or equivalent" under the KS chipset stuff in there, so I guess that's why it has a 44780 on it. 

 

[stryd_one]

@Stryd_One - Yeah, there are a few in the datasheet (3 or 4 different styles I think). This one of course is none of them. ;D

The model that was in the listing was in one of the datasheets I saw... Can't find the lkink now though, sorry mate.

[Jidis]

If you mean the L4042, that's the number he had, but it covers that whole batch in the PDF.

There are actually longer numbers which don't show on the LCD:

L404200J000S

L404221J000S

L4042B1J000S

L404200L000S

L4042B1L000S

That other weird number with the W&V,etc. I don't think is "model related".

I'm pretty sure the description Smash gave of the gap and all is what these are, but hey, 99 cents for two? I'll light a candle and pretend. ;)

I want to go see what the heck is in an inverter. (DIY?) I wouldn't mind trying that EL Foil junk anyway (sounds too weird to pass up).

I'll probably try to hook one of these up tomorrow to see how they look, but we've all seen the black on gray I guess. :-\

George 

[Wisefire]

that horn probably only needed 12V.. or maybe it was only a speaker.. and then you could have hooked it to an amplifier :P

and btw its VERY dangerous to mess with high voltages like 110V you could have been killed..

[smashtv]

Whee sonic spacecraft adventures! ;) 

I agree 100% on 110v danger.....

<warning: long rambling incoherent post below> ;)

I regularly tie our tour distro(s) into live AC for larger shows, this means when we pull in to do sound and lights for a band in a club, there is no way the house wiring will give up the 160+ amps of current we need......

So we bring in a portable site breaker box with outlets in it, and a very large "feeder" cable to tie our box to power.  (usually 4Ø, that's four times larger than zero gauge, think almost the same diameter as a 12oz. Coke can)

Here it gets fun: since the house panel does not have any single breaker that large, I have to tie into the live mains feeding the house panel, usually with no breaker or fuses between me and the power on the pole outside... :-/

So I put on one big mean welding glove, put the other hand in my back pocket, call for a spotter (who has been instructed on how to kick me loose If I quit humming the Wiggles tune), grab the "sticky" rubber dipped hex wrenches, and tie my feeder tail in live, one leg at a time  ;)

All of this is done legally and to code BTW....with inspectors, electricians, house techs looking over to satisfy the insurance boys.... ;)

What (barely) makes this relevant to the 110v topic: I am way more likely to die tinkering with simple 110v on a 20 amp breaker than while handling live 440v/220v feeds!

Seems crazy, but the reality is: 110v is only enough to cause all of my muscles to contract, probably causing a tighter grip on whatever is shocking me......in the same situation but with 220v +, its more likely to contract all my muscles way harder -hopefully- knocking me loose from whatever is biting me.

I guess my point is.....always treat 110v like its the most lethal thing you will see in electronics.....since statistically it is.  :D

"tying the tail" is a great energy boost on a long hard show day, the resulting adrenaline rush/fight-or-flight response is better than a few kidney killer sized coffees.....  ;)

Stay safe!

smash

[NorthernLightX]

I can assure you: 230v (what comes our of the sockets here in europe) sure can cause your muscles to contract in a way you're stuck to the live wires... fortunately I've never been in that position but I've heard enough stories of people that have. I've had the luxury of being able to make my muscles release their contact with the wires all the times I've actually made contact with mains (and come to think of that, that's been quite a few times now...stupid me).

What I'm curious about is why the different votages where chosen in the first place, I mean why do we in europe have 230v and in the US it's 115v?

[smashtv]

What I'm curious about is why the different votages where chosen in the first place, I mean why do we in europe have 230v and in the US it's 115v?

It started in the US with the edison/Tesla war of the currents.....edison (I say it with a little e, he was a profiteer wrongly regarded as an innovator) wanted to make DC the mains power standard, and toured the US frying everything from cats and dogs to elephants with AC in an effort to promote Tesla's AC as unsafe....In the US for whatever reason edison is treated as some hero, Tesla is rarely mentioned, in reality edison was rotten by nature for hiring the best of the best, then patenting any innovation he could buy or steal as his work.....

I don't know the reasoning for the voltage difference, it may be as simple as Europe is the 2nd generation of AC technology where they figured out it's cheaper in equipment cost to deliver 230 vs. 110?

Read up on Tesla if you have the time, Some of the stuff he was demonstrating still is not understood by the best of the best......It's amazing how different some basic physics concepts play out when you think differential harmonics vs. waveguides.....  ;)

Maybe some day we'll get to see all of his work..... -sigh-

Best

smash

[Jidis]

Don't worry, the horn thing was extra careful. I think I may have even hid  behind something.8)

Power was applied from a remote switch on a power strip, and there was no metal contact by me. I think I had tried feeding other (lower) power to it first, but couldn't get anything. IIRC the existing leads looked like they would've taken something heavy, but I really have no idea. I don't think it had anything resembling a "voice coil" or diaphragm of any sort. More like a big doorbell-type mechanism or something. Interesting looking creature it was though. Looked like it had a "pull-chain" and hinged arm so maybe it was mounted up high on a wall or something, like a lunchbreak or shift-change alert in a factory. Had an industrial looking red paint job too. It's shaped sort of like a Tuba, and it looks like it might accommodate a speaker at the back. I may stick a midrange driver in it and mic it up in a hallway or something for a "megaphone'ish" effect.

George

PS- Got the fool shocked out of me by being too careless around the primary side of a cassette deck's xformer many many years ago. Not likely to happen again soon (knock on wood). I've heard of that thing where you get "stuck" to the supply (terrifying thought). This thing just stopped my clock  for a few seconds and made me jump back about three feet. Had to stand still for about a minute to "recover" and realize what just happened.

I do admit, I need to watch my ass around CRT's a bit more though. I hear horror stories about them every time I go looking for info. I still haven't been able to get that "spark/crack" from grounding the suctioned clip thing, but I hear many of them discharge themselves now anyway. 

[stryd_one]

Hehehe, my initiation to electronics was a TV when I was about 11 years old... I picked it up from the tip, so I could open it up, because I was curious how they worked... While I was poking around inside it, I shorted the pins on a 240V capacitor about the size of my fist (it was a very old TV) with my screwdriver. :o :o ... I woke up a few minutes later on the other side of the shed....

I was hooked. And maybe just a little scared ;)

[smashtv]

Don't worry, the horn thing was extra careful. I think I may have even hid  behind something.8)

hahahaha this and i'm still laughing from the glow pot post! ;D ;D 

Back when I was an arcade game tech, every couple of weeks the owner would sober up enough to stop by my office and ask how the current repair was going....My standard reply of "It will either work great forever, or immediately burst into flames and kill us all" helped insure that the visits were bi-weekly instead of daily....  ;)

This thing just stopped my clock  for a few seconds and made me jump back about three feet. Had to stand still for about a minute to "recover" and realize what just happened.

That's a big danger too, -any- shock that hits the right nerves can screw with your natural pacemaker in a big way, or just a small enough way to make the problem hard to diagnose.

I do admit, I need to watch my ass around CRT's a bit more though. I hear horror stories about them every time I go looking for info. I still haven't been able to get that "spark/crack" from grounding the suctioned clip thing, but I hear many of them discharge themselves now anyway.

CRT's B+ line will definitely cause the "cussing pee pee dance".... :)  The average monitor has 19kv-26kv (yep, k=1000) at the B+ wire (suction cup thingy).... If there are not bad parts in the B+ section it should self-drain, but beware that voltage will usually charge the big filter cap (all depends on design naturally).  Also know that by nature of design even a bare crt tube sitting on the shelf will charge enough to make you try to fling it across the room when you grab it.

My best advice:  Make up the screwdriver/wire/alligator clip/ground tool, and wedge it into the hole for the entire time you are working on the chassis.  I have seen 19" game monitors that would build enough up to jump out from under the rubber suction cup insulator and meet the ground tool with a spark due to flyback and crowbar circuit failure.

A game monitor in a Donkey Kong machine of all things showed me the most un-explainable physics I have ever seen....The game was working fine but making a popping noise.  I opened it up, fired it up, killed the lights to find the arc, and found that there was a spark jumping from backside of the glass crt tube to the shield around the flyback transformer.  There was absolutely nothing foreign on the glass, and no metal on the glass....There was nothing there to conduct.....It was jumping a spark from -only- glass to ground.  You would think it would be easy to rationalize it with thinking a flaw in the glass and B+ voltage just on the inside of the tube where the spark is coming from...Trouble with that theory is in order to work, the picture tube has a vacuum pulled on it, and any flaw in the glass that could possibly let a spark through would have to leak air/lose the vacuum.  The game was 10+ years old at the time, and it had worked fine with this arcing for quite a while before I saw it...  I would love to know what was up with that one, but to date nobody has a good answer.  Instead of stopping to write a new book on thermodynamics with theories I didn't understand but could witness, I gave it the treatment with some insulators and sent it on down the road.  ;)

Reminded me to believe practice over theory on everything, the books and the teachers at the uni are not right all the time.....

My worst bite ever was from a large tube laser power supply.....that one should have finished me.  ;)  It was 65kv at high amperage.....  I was soooo lucky, Was sitting on the floor next to it instead of standing..... For whatever reason the crowbar ckt decided to dump HV to chassis ground, when I had my hand near a ground point.  It went in second finger and out fourth, so no heart damage etc.  Caused me to need therapy and special exercises to fight muscle atrophy in that arm for 6 months or so after, blackened both fingertips at entry and exit, and I cranked the back of my head on the floor from the recoil (luckily I was already out when I hit) I woke up feeling like I had just lost a fight, and I swear it was a minute before I knew who/where/what (probably from the head conk)

Wow thinking back I'm suprised I'm still around, and even more suprised that I still have all me digits....amazing considering I'm a redneck with a table saw.... and had some great fun doing stage pyro....  ;D

Speaking of hiding behind something, anyone up for making plasma fireballs in the microwave? it's easy considering how cool the effect is  :P

Best

Smash

[Wisefire]

yeah great stuff.. and the only ingredients are a grape.. a knife(to cut the grape) and a microwave.. or as we dutch say a magnetron..

[Jidis]

Smash,                   

--> I'm sticking a video alignment (television) post in the miscellaneous forum, if you or anyone wants to check it. I thought it was too "off topic" for this 2x40 LCD subject. 8)

I can't believe you were even able to force yourself back to working on any of that sort of stuff, after that finger shock. Glad you got through that alright!

Cool to see you do woodwork. I've been doing that for years, and do all my studio cabinetry. It's nice to always have exactly what you want "furniture-wise". My shop's a bit small for a table saw, and I've learned to do most work on a big radial, and carry my sheet stuff out the door to some sawhorses for longer cuts with a circular. I've got a really big router table inside with a jointing fence to square-up and "de-splinter" the edges afterward. The R.A.S. can get sort of scary on small stuff and rips though, as you've not only got your work "trapped" between the saw and the table, but you've got the yoke/guard/blade,etc., all sort of blocking your view. It's got some pretty good "kickback potential". That's the only tool that really may want to kill me here. I made a small table saw for a circular, which I can take outside for long, skinny rips, but it's sort of hard to set up and clamp to something, so I don't use it much. I'm thinking of grabbing one of those little rinky-dink benchtop table saws and making an indoor/outdoor cart for it, along with my planer (that's usually done outside too). Lots of my stuff requires solid wood edge banding, which is usually pretty thin and made of nice dangerous hardwood, so a small narrow table saw with a guide jig and some external feed supports should be a lot safer.

The radial shot this small piece of oak at me once and ripped my right hand wide open, requiring some stitches:

It once shot a short 2x4 or something, over my shoulder, into the cinder block rear wall of the shop, which sounded like it came out of a cannon. Had to sit that one out for a bit too. For me, the worst part is immediately after that stuff, where you start bleeding really bad, and have to try to determine just how bad you actually got hurt. I usually just cross my remaining  fingers, wrap up the damaged item, and run off to make somebody else look at it for me. 

I'm usually OK, if I can keep sharp blades and avoid my usual "in a hurry" dumb crap, like using tools with piles of junk sitting on their tables, cutting stuff that's too small, and not taking time to set up proper guards or hold-downs. I think they should put safety stickers on some of that stuff, with a picture of a cup of coffee with one of those red circle/slash "no" signs over it. Like you, I've often wondered why I still have all these fingers. ;)

Here's a friend of mine, who keeps a dedicated microwave in his garage for the sole purpose of blowing things up. ( "Linux" guy  ...go figure :P )

I wasn't around for this, but I think it was a cassette tape. ???

Be Safe,

George

PS- These posts are making me wonder if there's anybody in here who actually hasn't  been shocked by this s**t. ;D

[Jaicen]

I guess I'd better throw my hat into the ring eh?

My best electrocution was when I was in college doing a physics experiment. I noticed that the the power supply I was using had a loose fuse (the screw in type), so of course, I reached over to tighten it.  I don't remember what happened next, except that I was on the floor and the room was dark (tripped the security breakers). Turns out so much current was going through me it melted the secondary of the PSU transformer. I'd definitely be dead if it had been higher voltage i'm sure!

With regards to that DK monitor Smash, I have a sneaky suspicion it was ionisation of the air from the tube. I've heard it can happen, but never seen it. Oh and 110v is lethal because it's usually delivered at about 50Hz, which is close to the resonant frequncy of the heart, hence perfect for stopping it! 110 was chosen as it was believed to be safer, but it requires more current to deliver the same power as 240v, which is another reason it's so much more dangerous.

Sorry for dragging this post even further from the topic....

[Jidis]

Sorry for dragging this post even further from the topic....

Hey, it's my post, and I don't give a s**t!  ;D

Glad you made it through that zapping as well Jaicen! The tape deck that hit me was sort of the same deal (messing with something in the vicinity of the xformer). They should paint the primary side of those things bright red or something.

BTW- That guy with the microwave also dropped a 17 or 19 inch monitor "face down" on the pavement at his work a while back, but it didn't blow up or do anything interesting. (it was supposedly "unintentional")

Take Care,

George

[Therezin]

I tried to wire 110v up to some giant, red, Dr.Seuss looking megaphone horn thing I found in a basement once, and it started vibrating and squealing, making a horrible stinky smoke. It was face down on the carpet at the studio when I did it, and it melted this spiral ring crap through the carpet. It looks like I tried to launch a small spacecraft from the center of the room.

This had me laughing for minutes. Literally.

My worst bite ever was from a large tube laser power supply.....that one should have finished me.  ;)  It was 65kv at high amperage.....  I was soooo lucky, Was sitting on the floor next to it instead of standing..... For whatever reason the crowbar ckt decided to dump HV to chassis ground, when I had my hand near a ground point.  It went in second finger and out fourth, so no heart damage etc.  Caused me to need therapy and special exercises to fight muscle atrophy in that arm for 6 months or so after, blackened both fingertips at entry and exit, and I cranked the back of my head on the floor from the recoil (luckily I was already out when I hit) I woke up feeling like I had just lost a fight, and I swear it was a minute before I knew who/where/what (probably from the head conk)

Remind me not to play with lasers. And to take off my jewelry when messing with stuff like that, 'cause that's gotta be enough to melt silver and I don't like the idea of my rings burning themselves into my hands

[drin]

BTW- That guy with the microwave also dropped a 17 or 19 inch monitor "face down" on the pavement at his work a while back, but it didn't blow up or do anything interesting. (it was supposedly "unintentional")

Back when I was in University a lifetime ago we used to have an end of the year party called the 'Terminal Bash'. Since we were in computer science it made sense at the time. The highlight was buying raffle tickets then waiting for your number to be called. If you were lucky enough to be selected you got to take a large sledgehammer, axe or pickaxe and swing it with all your might at a monitor. It usually took 8-10 blows of an axe or pickaxe to open up the screen! Amazing just how thick the glass really is...

-drin