DrBunsen Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 Found this on the Make blog. Modify a cheap inkjet printer and use resist ink. Print your PCB layout direct to the copper. Pass through again for solder mask and component layout "silkscreen". Cheaper (for multiple boards), more accurate and repeatable than toner transfer (they say) [urlhttp://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm]A basic guide - looks like some of the details are yet to be documented, but there should be enough there to get a curious hacker started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBanner Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 you could also use an Epson R200 - they have direct CD printing via a tray which should be able to be modified very quckly to hold PCBS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pay_c Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Very cool idea!It just would be very cool to have more of those "PCB printing compatible" printers - that could be a real burner then.Thnx for those links, will check on that again! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Still too many steps for me. Curing, etching, blah blah blah.I'll be impressed when I see someone develop copper ink, and you can just print the traces right onto the board and then start soldering ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jidis Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Yes, thanks for the link! :)It just would be very cool to have more of those "PCB printing compatible" printersThat "Stefan Trethan" guy is someone I used to see in the Yahoo Homebrew PCB group. I wouldn't be surprised if there already was discussion there of what machines others had tried (albeit, maybe without the nice tutorial). I thought I had that printer in a pile of junk upstairs, but it turns out it's a C80 (not C84). Don't know if the guts are the same, or if it would matter, but like stryd_one, I got sort of disappointed when I hit that "curing" section. Everything was so easy up until then. :(Right now, I'm doing toner transfers from an HP LaserJet6L, which work pretty well. The lamination stage is my only gripe, but my real trouble there is with transfers on metals and stuff for panels. I wish I could do direct prints to that.George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBanner Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Still too many steps for me. Curing, etching, blah blah blah.I'll be impressed when I see someone develop copper ink, and you can just print the traces right onto the board and then start soldering ;Dthen check this out my friend: there is a project called the "RepRap" project: http://staff.bath.ac.uk/ensab/replicator/it's a GNU, PIC based project designed to be built for sub $500from Newscientist http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7165:"3D printers normally build circuits by fusing together a powdered metal with a laser. But Bowyer plans instead on using a low-melting point metal alloy of bismuth, lead, tin and cadmium that can be squirted from a heated syringe to form circuits.Bowyer has already produced an electronic circuit by squirting the alloy inside a plastic autonomous robot, which itself was created using a commercial 3D printer. Because the heated syringe he used is very similar to the nozzle that deposits plastic layers in the printer, he envisions squirting both plastic and metal from the same nozzle in future self-replicating machines." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Wow that's awesome!Just think, a few (10) years from now, you'll be able to download and print a midibox. I love 3d printing :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBanner Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 it's even better than that, in a few years, this thing should be able to do the PCB, Knobs, Button Caps and any other custom bits you need. in fact it could potentially do most of that now, but the dev work needs to be done.obviously there's the cost/time issues, but what a cool concept - the RepRap is even going be self-replicating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbrown Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Kind'a like the Borg cube.. For you Trekkies out there!! ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated into the midibox community. Please register by clicking this link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBanner Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 luckily for us mere humans, it's only self-replicating, not self assembling.You could just imagine leaving the unit on and coming home after a weekend away to a house full of 'em all busy cloning themselves.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 All you need is one robot to do the assembly... get the reprap cloning batches of one of each ;)Mmmm. world takeover plot. ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBanner Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 it's cyberdynne systems in the making!!the folks at reprap are chatting about making a RepRap available for hire/loan so you can use it to make your own one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Yeh I was thinking they could easily get together a network of people... Send all the parts to one person in each countries' capital city, get them to make one for each state's capital, etc etc.... They could start the seeding on a larger scale by releasing autocad designs of the parts, so people could have them laser cut for a speedy first infection :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbrown Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 luckily for us mere humans, it's only self-replicating, not self assembling.You could just imagine leaving the unit on and coming home after a weekend away to a house full of 'em all busy cloning themselves....Well if that is the case, I will have a bunch of MBSEQv2 to give away to our MB community!! Just pay your own shipping!! ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbrown Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I guess TK's world domination is right on schedule!! ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBanner Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 fear of a midi planet :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr modnaR Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 going back to the original topic, i believe there could be a far, far better way of producing circuit boards than printing out the resist etc etc. i don't know how many of you know how laser printers work, but basically they have a positively charged roller which is then discharged by a laser in the areas that you want black or whatever colour. then positively charged toner is sprinkled on the roller. this stays on the neutral areas, and doesn't stay on the positive areas. the toner is then transferred to the paper where it is heated. this melts it and fixes it to the paper. how does this translate to circuits? basically a laser printer needs to be set up (or constructed is probably more accurate!) to 'print' a neutral image onto a flat plastic board. the board is then sprinkled with charged fine copper dust, which is then heated to melt it onto the board. et voila! circuits-a-go-go!edit: of course this won't work as i have described it. the copper dust would have to be coated to prevent current flow. another possibility would be that negatively charged areas could be used to attract copper ions in a copper plating setup ??? any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 something like this?http://www.pulsar.gs/PCB/a_Pages/1_Menu/overview.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr modnaR Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 sort of, but that method still requires etching, as the toner is the etch resist. what i propose is direct copper 'printing' which would mean no more etching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well copper melts at about 1100 deg C which well exceeds anything that it could be printed on (or that could heat it for that matter). Plating copper requires a nickel base so thats out.I dont see the big deal with etching, take me about 5-10 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbrown Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 sort of, but that method still requires etching, as the toner is the etch resist. what i propose is direct copper 'printing' which would mean no more etching.Very good concept!! You should patent it if its not there yet. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr modnaR Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Well copper melts at about 1100 deg C which well exceeds anything that it could be printed on (or that could heat it for that matter). Plating copper requires a nickel base so thats out.I dont see the big deal with etching, take me about 5-10 minutesyeah i put the word printing in ' ' to signify that i didn't mean literally, in a liquid form. if plating requires a nickel base, do blank, pre-etched PCBs have nickel under the copper?i know etching doesn't take long, but it's hassle nonetheless. imagine printing a circuit board in a few seconds. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Who says traces have to be standard copper anyway? I'll bet some clever metallurgist could make a nice alloy/compound of sorts... Trick would be to make it melt low enough to be printed but high enough to withstand soldering...Or I'll bet you could spray powdered copper (or whatever) based compound onto a special paper which would be impregnated or coated with a catalyst to bond it together a bit...I know these ideas sound far fetched and I am no master chemist or metallurgist heheeheAnyone know how those flexible PCB's are made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr modnaR Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 i'm sure it'd be possible to plate the pcbs with copper, you'd just have to oppositely charge the areas you want traces on. i'm not sure the powdered copper spray would work, because the contact between the grains wouldn't be sufficient to provide low resistance. like you said though: i'm no expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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