Cheaper front panels?

[DrBunsen]

The single most expensive component in a synthesizer is the aluminum faceplate. There is only one source for turnkey faceplates in the US and they are obscenely expensive. I pay $70 each for 1200 series faceplates. Your only other option involves using 4 different vendors. One to get the metal blanks' date=' one to put the holes in them, another to anodize them and another yet to silkscreen them. Each step is a chance for errors to creep in. Also, there are 5 shipping charges to move everything from place to place or lose the whole batch. Or drop the box…

    The people who make printed circuit boards are used to doing most of these operations to a higher degree of precision and more quickly and cheaply than machine shops. If the buying public was willing to accept faceplates made from fiberglass instead of metal, it would open the floodgates to new module designs.

    You can hardly see the difference either, the fiberglass is painted and silkscreened just like the metal. Plus fiberglass is lighter and stiffer. I have heard this idea repeatedly from many people, but no one believes people will buy modules with fiberglass faceplates. It is not historical.

    There are also design advantages to PC material faceplates. The faceplate can become part of the circuit. Touch switches for triggers or mode selects are essentially free. Things that are expensive in metal, like slots for linear pots or perforated grills for speakers, now cost a few pennies instead of a few dollars.[/quote']

From a post on Create Digital Music

[stryd_one]

Yeh I thought that post was interesting too, but they neglected to mention any PCB houses that would make them :(

[sneakthief]

Any PCB house will make them! That's the beauty of it, you just send the regular gerbers that specify the labels on the silkscreen and maybe some starter holes for the pots, switches & jacks.

[stryd_one]

ohhhhhhh. Uhm..... I knew that! :-[

hehehehe

[DrBunsen]

This bit I thought was interesting.

The faceplate can become part of the circuit. Touch switches for triggers or mode selects are essentially free. Things that are expensive in metal, like slots for linear pots or perforated grills for speakers, now cost a few pennies instead of a few dollars.

Some thoughts:

With a double sided board, you could have a ground plane on the rear for pots, LEDs, switches, encoders, etc. ... a +ve bus ... traces to/from ribbon headers for DINs ...  even a matrix layout .... maybe all leading down to one big edge connector that slots into a MBHP backplane ...

On the front ... touch switches as he says ... and the following idea I ripped off from something on either Make or some other blog recently.

Touch sliders:

== o  == o  == o

== o  == o  == o

== o  == o  == o

== o  == o  == o

== o  == o  == o

== o  == o  == o

== o  == o  == o

== o  == o  == o ... etc

Each == is an exposed copper trace.  The "o" are LEDs wired up as for a LED ring.  

The whole column of exposed traces are connected to a resistor ladder, like an AOUT_LC in reverse.  Sliding your finger up and down the traces should give a variable voltage like a pot.  More traces = more resolution (and more resistors to solder).  The skin conductance of your finger -might- improve the resolution by "hardware interpolating" between two traces, but I'm not too sure on that.

These are just random thoughts off the top of my head.  Anyone ?

[smashtv]

Hi guys

I wish this was a workable option but it was crossed off my alternatives list long ago.  :( 

FR4 will warp with even a small amount of constant pressure.  Even PCBs as small as the MB boards warp if not stored correctly. 

Anything larger than a few square inches would need internal support. 

Also you would need to keep it out of the sun, since the different layers in the laminate will expand and contract differently upon temperature change.  FR4 will warp on its own with even a few degrees of rapid temp change. (thats why preheat and temp control are crucial parts of the fab process, else delamination occurs)

If he's paying $70 each for a frac size panel he needs to either step up to big boy quantities, or hire a pro buyer/broker to get the price down....or both.

It's nice that he wants to shop local (US), but realistic pricing and finding a shop that does low quantity are mutually exclusive here.  Mexico on the other hand is full of metal fab shops with NC punch presses, and in contrast to dealing with American companies seem quite happy to do quality work at a realistic price.

<rant>I know this scrapes politics a bit with global economy/currency value manipulation/human rights issues/environmental considerations, but it would be a double standard to say x from country y is bad, while using -any- electronic parts.....the state of the art in electronics has always been outsourced to anywhere with cheap labor/weak environmental rules.  It's a situation that will not change as long as there are government official pockets to pad and profit to be made.  Just Google "congo tantalum" for a look at the real cost of a 17 cent capacitor.</rant>

Once again I find myself posting with an off-balance coffee/blood ratio, my apologies if you read this far.  ;)

Back on topic.....

I have been trying to qualify a few alternatives to aluminum for this, but aluminum still wins on price/performance if CNC milled, and good old steel alloy sheet metal if CNC punched.

Best

Smash

[stryd_one]

I love your rants Smash :)

Thanks for the info and saving us all the trouble. Maybe on small modular faceplates it's OK, but obviously not for the rack :)

[TheAncientOne]

A long time ago (usual story..), I did some gear for listening to VLF phenomena. The gear had to be shielded, but as light as possible. some of the cases were made of blue PCB material with thin brass angle soldered to it. It was still OK last time I saw it, and had done a lot of field trips. The design had the copper to the inside, and was laquered over to prevent corrosion.  Perhaps the stuff we used was better than standard FR4. I think adding a couple of light vertical rails to a module panel might not be too bad, and for self build cost is a major factor. The reason for using the Fibreglass over thin alloy was it's resistance to knocks for it's weight, though if a dural had been available this might not have been an issue.

Thinking of the VLF stuff, the dawn chorus effect might make some good ambients, though getting out somewhere away from much e/m background was more of a challenge. We even used to take clockwork watches, and had the walkman pro, for recording, in a shielded case. I guess stryd might be able to get some better recordings if he goes walkabout.Examples: http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/mcgreevy/#latest http://www.vlf.it/

<Personal minor rant follows>

Why are so many analogue synths slavishly following a 1970's design aesthetic that, at the time, had no other virtue than price? The Moog modulars have pretty poor ergonomics, even though they look good. They seemed to have caught up with the usability concept by the MiniMoog, then Norlin dropped the ball again with  the Poly. The man who put those little slider caps on is going to spend an eternity in hell condemned to futile attempts reproduce a sound exactly....

We have a whole range of options available. The schaeffer stuff at least comes in other colours, and MIDIboxers seem to be more adventurous. But there is a lot more out there. My local CNC panel shop ican offer me back engraved plastic, (mirror image engraving),  over a metal panel, as a basic, coloured cut vinyl on the panel for backgroundand no front engravings to get full of yuck. There are lots of other options too. Comparing things on this site with some of the heavy hitters of the analogue world is an eye opener. You guys seem to produce such interesting stuff.

I've been looking at 80's aircraft ergo-tech. Modern aero panels are all soft key screen except for vital intruments, (which may have to wait until MIDIbox NG), If they get cheap enough, touch screen is another way for some stuff. I want practicality and ease of use for my failing eyesight. Have you noticed how good so many cockpit layouts look, and not a stylist in sight - everything is designed to be easy to use under stress, which wouldn't hurt any on stage gear either. Roadie-proof is a different problem. . . . .

My last attempt at a piece of audio case design was an Elektor preamp with an anodised ally engraved front, a blue display and LED's with a nice laquered beech ply slip case. I felt quite good about it until a friends Girlfriend said "Hey, that's cool, did you get it at Ikea?"

<pill taking effect now...>

Which is a fine rant from a man whose first music project out of the new set is a cracklebox housed in a wooden Chinese ginger box with upholstery nails as contacts. . . . . .

Mike

[Wilba]

Just thought I'd mention, with my MB-SID I got frontpanel and PCB made, both are exactly the same size (about 10"x7") and same thickness, PCB is good fiberglass too... and it's slightly warped! The aluminium is much stiffer and flatter, and using the threaded spacers I mentioned in my blog posts, this helps straighten the PCB to match the panel.

I'm not saying using PCB material for a frontpanel is a bad idea, though... it did cross my mind... and with clever use of the solder mask layer you could even have silver artwork on green (or some other colour soldermask) ;D

[smashtv]

Pulsar light controllers=implementation of this concept:http://www.pulsarlight.com/Masterpiece96.htm

Early models of these boards were dinosaurs even back in my young days when I spotted them in local clubs.....great for a blinky disco but not so much anything else.  Perfect spot to set your drink in the DJ booth though (what with the flat surface and all)    ;)

"touch operated metal control panel wired to a mains voltage light show" still not ranking well on my fun ways to experience voltage list.  ;D

Best

Smash

[DavidBanner]

hehe, I've seen those around for years.

There are still a couple of clubs in London with them in the DJ box, Turnmills has one, but not the fancy one with the faders, just 8 or 16 touch sensors (can't remember which)

I've never trusted anything about them, and you make a good point with touch panels and mains voltage. I knew someone who lost a finger because they dropped a cigarette behind a lighting desk, reached in to grab it and it was live. Months in hospital with 3 fingers attached to his stomach via skin grafts, then they amputated one.

lighting desks and cowboy electricians don't mix...

[TheAncientOne]

"touch operated metal control panel wired to a mains voltage light show" still not ranking well on my fun ways to experience voltage list.  ;D

Having repaired Pulsar stuff, I can assure you that the mains was opto isolated in some dimmers/switchpacks, and, (though I may be getting mixed up with Strand and Thorn), pulse transfomer isolated in others. Most of the light panels seemed to be some kind of stainless plate with studs welded on to the back, set in, or on top of, a plastic bezel, though some were a self adhesive sheet. The early Rossula stuff seemed to be isolated by virtue of large value resistors(!).  One club had a persistant touch panel fault that I only traced after attending one night: a DJ with a grudge and a piezo lighter. Fortunately after the first incident I'd fitted the 4011's with decent sockets

The original Steim crackleboxes used the combined front panel and touch pad, as of course did the 'stylophone' et al. Getting your touch pads gold plated may cost more, but will keep them healthy longer.

Back in the day, I used to print front panels from a BBC micro graphics package in glorious black on whatever colour of paper I wanted, stick it to thin alloy panel with spray mount adhesive, and cover it with thin acrylic sheet, or clear 'sticky backed plastic'. Dural is way better than pure aluminium, being nicer to cut and drill as well as stronger/stiffer for the same thickness. In those days there were several aerospace contractors in the this area, and scrapyards always willing to sell on some offcuts for a few beer tokens

I'm going to use a variant of this tecnique to prototype my next lot of panels, though now I have access to a photo quality printer that will do over 19" wide. They may never go 'final'.

Mike