8xSID MB-SID PCB (aka. MB-6582) - request for comments

[Wilba]

Discontinued? Arrgh!

Well, it wasn't discontinued a few weeks ago...

Must be a reliability problem or something, as both OSD and Winstar discontinued them... but they're still making other PLED/OLED products and revising their other PLED displays. Hmm...

Luckily, I planned ahead and catered for this kind of situation. Those PLED displays are much thinner, and can squeeze into a 10mm gap (if you bend those little tabs on the back that hold the bezel, and route a little bit into the CS PCB to make one fat component fit). I say it's a squeeze because it really is tight. But at design time, I decided to handle the possibility that the display wouldn't fit (i.e. switch to a backlit LCD) so....

There's nothing routed where the display fits on the PCB, which gives people the ability to route a rectangluar hole the size of the display's bezel and mount the display so the bezel pokes through the CS PCB from behind. Typically the bezel is 9mm high, so it will be only 1mm behind the panel. Then those little PCBs that would normally sit above and below the display's PCB can sit above the CS PCB instead, they'll be held on with the same screws that hold the display to the CS PCB, and will need some spacers to support it when buttons are pressed.

This solves the problem the neatest way... there's plenty of support from all those threaded spacers holding the PCB to the panel, so a big hole that big is not a problem. Increasing the gap between the panel and PCB is just too messy to deal with.  ;)

[Wilba]

Oops... I just realised, the bezel is 9mm high, PCB is 1.6mm, gap is 10mm... so if you mount the LCD behind the CS PCB, there's a 2.6mm gap between LCD and frontpanel. Should still work fine, although maybe a slightly larger hole in the panel to compensate (i.e. so you can still see the bottom edge when viewed from a low angle).

However, there is some good to come out of this... if mounting a display behind the CS PCB, you don't need those separate PCBs that sit above the display when it's mounted above the CS PCB, I can put those on the CS PCB itself. This makes manufacturing cheaper, the construction is a lot easier, and you can use the same switches throughout (13mm, no need for the 7mm ones). It also gives you the option to reduce the gap between CS PCB and panel to less than 10mm, if you really want to do that.

For all those people wanting CS PCBs... let me know what your plans are (i.e. what knobs, encoders and display you want to use)... I can confirm it's all going to fit ;D

[dirge]

i'm in for a set of pcbs, mainboard and cs. haven't bought parts yet, so i can buy specifically what fits the PCBs. oh, i will be building the power supply.

[kris]

  hello wilba

      im would like a board probably not the cs board though

    but ive kinda got a funny power supply question first

    do i have to have an ac current to run a sid (im thinking about a 4sid/fm unit and maybe 8 analogue filters

in one box ) i got a funny power situation as i need everything i make to run from a dc power source batteries charged from solar as i like to live off the grid quite a lot

    ive read some stuff that makes me think that to power  a sid i need ac and dc currents while i could get the ac from inversion (this is not a good situation as it produces noise in audio situations not a pure sine wave but stepped )

      anyway this situation is making me question if its any use me making a sid synth any clarification would be gratefully appreciated

      regards kris

[Wilba]

No you don't need an AC power source for the SIDs, just 5v and 9v (for 8580 or 6582) and 12v (for 6581).

[kris]

thanks for that wilba so id be interested in one of the boards thanks

regards kris

[Wilba]

Can someone interested in buying the base PCB (and using 8580 or 6582) get some nice filter capacitors as described here:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=9132.msg64907#msg64907

and share them with the other people buying the base PCB and other MIDIbox SID builders?

Surely there's someone in Europe who can send them around the rest of Europe for cheaper postage than me sending them all from Australia. Preferrably someone who can measure them with a multimeter and sort them by value, to find matched pairs with <1% tolerance!

[stryd_one]

I'll be getting a bunch of those but shipping from AU is probably more than buying 100 so yeh....

Still if anyone wants some yell out.

[kokiPsiho]

Hi,

i'm waiting for one bag of those caps so I can do that but it could be month or so before they arrive.

regards,

koki.

[Nu-Audio-Science]

Yep i want a set of both PCBs too  ;)

[audiophil]

Well this couldn't come at a better time; I've been itching to rework my hodgepodge of a midibox SID. . .

V2. .yum.

I'd be willing to jump in on a bulk order for both the main and cs PCBs.

[stevenclements]

:o YES  :o please put me down for the mainboard and the CS and any group orders for parts I'm game to get in on it as well!!!

is there any savings to order the front & rear panel in a group? 

I wouldn't be able to make these myself.

congrats on this Wilba looks sweet!

Steve

[acidkomplex]

Wilba-

I would like you to know I've joined this phorum simply to say the following:

I'm tired of DIY.  I have the SmashTV modules and parts for a 4xSID MIDIbox SID collecting dust.  I'm currently finishing an Introspectiv 9090, and am staging the parts (have the PCB and some of the hard to find parts) for the MB808 clone.  There is a second x0xb0x waiting and I should be in on the first run of bcbox's Devilfish mod kit.

In short, my time is limited.  What's more, I just started a new job which leaves me very little personal time (but pays well).

So-

I am interested in your base PCB.  In addition, since time no longer exists but I can now afford it, I'm also interested in the control PCB, as well as the case, faceplate and all control surface parts.  I don't really care how expensive all that stuff was.  I just want a completed MIDIbox SID!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't mean to leech off of you and your hard work, and I understand if you want your box to remain unique.  If it helps, I promise you my color scheme is going to be blue and red and not your totally hot jet black  :P

Best,

A very frustrated Acid Komplex

[Wilba]

*** I removed this post because it was inappropriate ***

[dj3nk]

Due I got my 4xSID Parts yesterday i'll first etch my own pcbs. I think its faster than waiting for this order. /what doesnt mean, I dont eventually want one. :)

greetz

[acidkomplex]

Wilba-

Reading back on it, it _does_ sound like I was asking to buy a completed unit.  That isn't the case.  I'm really asking to purchase all PCB's and whatever group buy parts you may have available, and then take whatever case, frontplate design and BOM you have to the appropriate places.

As it stands with the parts I currently have:  I need to wire everything to everything, develop a power supply that works, and design a frontplate.

Also, I have the older chips.  I have five and am excited to know that your newer PCBs will handle these.

Thanks (and I'll be lurking)

-an Acid Komplex waiting for the weekend

P.S.-  Cut the acid sacrilege!  303's (x0xb0xen) and chiptune machines are in completely different leagues.  Completely. 

[stevenclements]

<snip>

For all those people wanting CS PCBs... let me know what your plans are (i.e. what knobs, encoders and display you want to use)... I can confirm it's all going to fit ;D

I DO want to build one just like yours... I have collected 3 SID chips up to this point but like acidKomPlex... I've got older bits here... two 6581's and one 8580.... with your design I would gladly scour for more chips to have a fully stuffed SID beast.

Can your design allow for different SID chips or would it be best to keep them all the same?  I'm not a designer and will bow to your expertise in this area.

I guess pulling together a nice BOM from DigiKey Mouser and the like would be the next thing for us North American's to do.

Cheers

Steve

[Wilba]

*** I removed this post because it was inappropriate ***

[NorthernLightX]

Wilba, you've refueled my fire, big thanks fot that  ;)

Now, i would like to sign up for one base board. Furthermore, a set of thore filtercaps sound nice too (just for my information; when were these caps deemed preferrable above the styrofles ones? because I have already bougt some styro's with my last Reichelt order).

Now, I'd pay all your expenses ofcourse, but that sounds a litte too cheap for such a wonderful effort. I might have some (expensive) parts lying around I'm not using anywhere soon (AOUT board components a.o.), and I'd like to donate them to you if you're interested. If you don't need anything from my stash I'll just throw in some extra cash, your work needs to be funded too, right? ;)

Cheers,  Alex.

[edit]

Oh, and before I forget, if it's not too much of a hassle, you could make the power section on the PCB like Smash does with the midi ports on his PCBs: with a mountable DIN socket OR a SIL header. I would use the SIL header.

[/edit]

[edit2]

I should have read the wiki first, you've built-in a complete regulating circuit - I don't need that, I'd regulate all power on a separate board. So if you could make it like how the Core power section used to be (still is?) with a way to not populate the regulation section and put the power in after the regulation section, that would be great.

[/edit2]

[Wilba]

NorthernLightX: some others are already getting those caps, so you should deal with one of them, I'm sure they'll have plenty to spare. They're preferrable only because they're 1% tolerance, even less if you sort by value, and you can solder them if you really want, they're not fragile like styroflex ones.

There's no need to throw in extra cash, I am essentially donating the PCB designs to the MIDIbox community, and I will arrange some PCB manufacturing. However, if you would like to sell me some MAX525 and MAX6007 to make some AOUT boards that would be cool... I have four CEM3379 filter chips which I'd like to turn into two stereo filters/VCAs so I need four MAX525 (and maybe only one MAX6007).

As for powering the PCB... there's definitely going to be a nice SIL header for supplying +12v/+9v/+5v/Gnd (i.e. where the regulators would normally output) as well as an alternative to the PCB mount DIN socket that the C64 uses.

The tricky bit that I'm working out now is giving people the option to just regulate the 9v AC with one 7809 (like in my PCB) or add it to the 5v DC for 12v (and also 9v if you need it).

As you can see in this snapshot, there's heaps of room to please everyone  ;D

[NorthernLightX]

I have 3 max525 and 2 max6007 lying around. Just pm or email me and we will work something out (trade for pcb e.g.).

about the spare room on the pcb... any chance that an uplink to an aout module will be possible there?

[stryd_one]

I just gotta say... Wilba and the mighty MB-6582 have just departed from my house, and my impression of this thing is :

:D ;D :o 8) :P :-* ;D ;D ;D ;D *drool* *drool* *drool* *drool* *drool*

In-f%@#n-sanity, dudes. You should hear the stereo goodness through a surround decoder! He like, twisted a knob, and the sound ran around behind me and belted me in the head. Great stuff!! The feedback sounds totally awesome, and cranked up to full it's like the perfect distortion circuit for a SID. The mod matrix is just... crazy... Super flexible... there's no latency whatsoever... 

Physically it's reaaaalllly nice, the pics just don't do it justice, especially the buttons, and he was kind enough to turn the knob illumination on, and although I have to admit that it might not be the most practical thing ever, it does make it look pretty crazy.

I could go on and on and on, but I just can't find the words... It's just... Perfect....and I'm sure my neighbours will ask about the noise tomorrow morning  ;D When I noticed it was midnight I turned it down... a bit... then turned it back up, like 2 minutes later... I'm only human! ;D

Thanks to Wilba for the demo and of course TK for the code :) The sweet spot in my living room will never be the same :)

[Wilba]

about the spare room on the pcb... any chance that an uplink to an aout module will be possible there?

I've redesigned the ports around each Core, there's now J6/J7 SIL headers which are together (so you can use IDC connector like SmashTV's Core PCB) so each PIC can drive its own AOUT module through that port. On my box, I'm routing all four AOUT controls to the 25-pin DSUB at the back, should I ever have (need) four external filters/VCAs.

[NorthernLightX]

I'm routing all four AOUT controls to the 25-pin DSUB at the back, should I ever have (need) four external filters/VCAs.

I wondered what that large COMport was for...  ;D

It all looks mighty cool. Lately I've been busy again with a distortion effect, now in pedel-form, for a friend of mine who plays guitar. That distortion could be a nice companion for the SID, but I read you've already incorporated some kind of distortion, or is that "just" overdrive? Is it part of the base PCB or on a separate circuit?

[Wilba]

I'm not an audio expert, I don't know the difference between distortion and overdrive....  ???

The four knobs at the back control dual-gang 500k pots, the audio output of each SID goes to one side, ground on the other side, wiper goes to audio input of the SID. So basic voltage-divide, volume control thing, to control how much "feedback" to use. With filtering the external input, you get more resonance (and self-oscillation) when using bandpass. With filtering externa input turned off, it's distortion. Amplified and clipped. That's all.

Each SID has a three-pin header with Audio In/Gnd/Audio Out, if you don't use the feeback pots, you ground Audio In with jumper, or if you want to use feedback pots, you connect wires between the pot and that header. That header is in addition to the stereo sockets for audio output.