8xSID MB-SID PCB (aka. MB-6582) - request for comments

[Wilba]

This thread is closed, move to this thread for more relevant information:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=9560

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This thread is for those people wishing to buy and use the PCB I designed for my MB-6582 MIDIbox SID Synth project, i.e. an all-in-one board for 4x Core, 8x SID, 8x BankStick, 5xDIN, 3xDOUT

If you don't know what I'm talking about, here are the links:

MIDIbox of the Week (Wilba's MIDIbox SID V2, aka. MB-6582)

MB-6582 - an 8xSID MB-SID synth

MB-6582 Wiki

So rather than just release the exact PCB files that I used for my box, I am doing a few minor changes now that the MB-SID V2 hardware changes are (to my knowledge) final. In other words, PIC18F4620 is no longer to be used, so IIC MIDI modules are now not needed (rip 'em out!) and PIC18F4685 is now to be used, so add the CAN bus to link all the PICs in a super-fast MIDIbox Network.

Also, rather than answer the same question over and over, I'll make some statements now to answer any questions:

* The "Base PCB" is essentially a merging of multiple MIDIbox modules into one compact PCB, and should work exactly the same as connecting multiple MIDIbox modules with cables.

* The original "Base PCB" has a 9v supply to all 8 SIDs. The revised "Base PCB" will have 9v and 12v supply rails which you can connect to a pair of SIDs, so each pair of SIDs can be either 6581 SIDs or 8580/6582 SIDs.

* You don't have to use all the SID sockets. You can choose to put SIDs in stereo pairs, or only put a SID in the left SID socket for a mono channel.

* You don't have to use all the PIC sockets. You can choose to use less than four PICs.

* You don't have to use the DIN/DOUT at the bottom of the PCB, and you don't have to use the optimized switch/LED matrix I designed to get a "step C" control surface with only 8 shift registers, and you don't have to use a "step C" control surface (or any control surface). However, TK has kindly done all the code changes to support the optimized switch/LED matrix so you can have a big control surface with only the shift registers on this PCB.

* Final cost will be a maximum of US$50 if two people split a prototype PCB order from Gold Phoenix (where I got mine made). This would become cheaper if I organize a batch order and sell them, but I'm not going to do that unless there's enough people wanting one.

* the base PCB is exactly 9200mil x 7215mil (9.2 inches x 7.215 inches). This fits exactly into the PT-10 case by PacTec, with mount holes that line up with the case standoffs.

OK, now for the "request for comments":

* The PCB uses the original C64 power socket and C64 power switch, and uses the original C64 PSU (external transformer). If you are not going to use these components, what are you going to use? How best can I support your use of a different power supply?

* Do you have any other suggestions to make?

[stryd_one]

Exciting stuff :)

I vaguely remember hearing that MBNet might allow for even more than 8 SIDs one day... Perhaps that might be worth considering, perhaps two of the base PCBs could be chained up somehow? I'm guessing this would just be a matter of having pads to connect the CAN bus...

I'm also wondering if the base PCB is likely to be suitable for driving a CS PCB which uses a 2x40 LCD with more buttons/encoders but without the LED matrix, to take advantage of the new mod matrix screens? (which I think has been mentioned around here too? We spoke of this last time you visited my place) This would be particularly relevant to those of us thinking about a rackmount case.

If those things could be accommodated without too much alteration that would be very cool...

As for the IIC MIDI, I take it that we can still have multiple outputs direct from the slaves or something?

I'm not going to do that unless there's enough people wanting one.

Yeh, start making calls dude  ;D

[amp1ron]

I'm in for one with either a C64 power connector or something different.  Up to $50 is fine with me.

[Wilba]

I'm also wondering if the base PCB is likely to be suitable for driving a CS PCB which uses a 2x40 LCD with more buttons/encoders but without the LED matrix, to take advantage of the new mod matrix screens? (which I think has been mentioned around here too? We spoke of this last time you visited my place) This would be particularly relevant to those of us thinking about a rackmount case.

You've got a DINx5 and DOUTx3 to play with. That's enough for 16 encoders + 64 buttons + 128 LEDs.

[ilmenator]

Hi Wilba,

maybe you could add a 5 1/4" drive power connector socket like the one below. It is pretty much standardized and one could connect any type of external PSU to it. Or maybe a simple SIL header (3 or 5 pins wide) would be enough?

I am in for one of those boards!

Best regards, ilmenator

[Wilba]

That one's probably a bit too big... I could probably do a SIL socket, but I don't know what's the preferred inputs.

I guess I need a case example of someone who used their own transformers and PSU circuit (there's a lot of them in the gallery!)... so how best to plug into and use the regulators on the PCB (including adding space for an optional 5v regulator). There's enough room with the IIC MIDI modules now removed to do something quite flexible, I just don't know what an alternative PSU would look like.

[dj3nk]

I would be interested in buying the pcb. Other people here ?

[bill]

I want one  ;D

I think a SIL socket is just perfect !

[Jack]

I am interested, too.

Jack

[Screaming_Rabbit]

I'm in for one too.

Greets, Roger

[b-funk]

yo, i´m in for at least two, maybe 3. depends on what my partner in crime thinks about it...

[kokiPsiho]

One for me too.

koki

[dj3nk]

so we are @ 9 pieces

[Twin-X]

Count me in for 1 set.

Does it exist like your proto of the main board and the frontpanel pcb?

[Fall_X]

I'd be interested, but not yet. Still have to begin work on my first midibox and learn a lot. But in half a year or a year, hell yeah, I'd love to get this.

[Wilba]

I'm only arranging a batch order of the base PCB, not the control surface PCBs. I don't think many people would want to make a control surface exactly like mine. The only problem with getting the control surface PCB is that you're stuck with the exact same parts I used, which might not suit your style or budget... two different kinds of ALPS tactile switches, knobs from ALBS.de, 4x20 PLED display, 1.5mm anodized aluminium panel from Front Panel Express (or Schaeffer)... etc. But I'm not stopping anyone to make one exactly like mine... I could get a couple more made if there's at least two people wanting them...

OK it seems pretty settled that there's enough interest in the base PCB, so I'll see what prices I can get for a batch.

[b-funk]

about the power supply issue:

personally i don´t like using the c64 psu - i built my first mbsid with mains power, using a meanwell rd-35a (+5/+12v switching psu - and yes, it works without any interference - no problems with that! - and yes, there will be pictures and soundsamples soon...  ;D), because i really don´t want to carry 20 different external psu´s for all the drummachines, fx´s etc...

others may like to use the c64 psu, so there should be a universal solution.

i think you mustn´t change the power supply lines onboard, because one can connect either the c64 psu using regulators or just connect a psu that delivers the right voltages already. what would be cool is if it is possibly to bypass the onboard power switch if one wants to use a mains power switch...

i hope you can understand what i mean as my english is not good enough to explain technical stuff  ::)

i´m really looking forward to this great piece of work.

btw, i asked my buddy about the pcb and he wants one, too. so it´s definitly 3 i want.

best wishes,

tobias.

[Wilba]

i think you mustn´t change the power supply lines onboard, because one can connect either the c64 psu using regulators or just connect a psu that delivers the right voltages already. what would be cool is if it is possibly to bypass the onboard power switch if one wants to use a mains power switch...

i hope you can understand what i mean as my english is not good enough to explain technical stuff  ::)

The switch on the PCB is a DPDT I think, stryd can confirm, he knows switches... but it's effectively just two toggle switches in parallel, so one switches the 9v AC current and the other switches the 5v DC current. If supplying power externally, you can either go in through the pads for the C64 power socket (i.e. supply 9v AC/5v regulated DC) and choose to use the C64 power switch (or mount an alternative switch there), OR supply power into a SIL header, and put the switch on the mains end of the PSU... in which case that switch might be embedded in the PSU anyway or you'll want a heavy duty panel mount one and don't care about the one on the PCB.

So I don't really know if that answers your question... but I can definitely confirm I'm not changing the power supply RAILS on the board itself - just the circuit before the 5v/9v/12v rails start.

[b-funk]

that´s all i wanted to know... thank you.  ;D

[stryd_one]

Yup, DPDT (latching, not momentary)

aka DPDT ON-OFF ( Not (ON)-OFF or ON-(OFF) )

[Jack]

I am interested in Control Surface, too.

[nige]

I've been toying with the idea of building a MIDIBox SID for a while but I've been put off by the modular approach of the construction. Wilba, your single compact PCB design is perfect, so I too would be very interested in purchasing both a base and control PCB.

[Wilba]

I totally underestimated how many people would want the control surface PCBs too!

I'll expand this thread to include discussions about the CS PCBs also...

Just so you know, I am NOT selling "kits", so if you want to use the control surface PCBs then you will have to find the parts that suit. However, I am willing to get some 100x packs of the switches you need and distribute them with control surface PCBs, since they're cheap and the most specific thing you need for the PCBs. Also, some of the 100mil spacing ribbon cable, this stuff is heavy duty and a lot stiffer than normal ribbon cable, which makes it harder to close the case ;) but also more tolerant of opening/closing the case a lot... it's rare stuff and I have too much of it so I'll share it around too...

The control surface PCBs are designed to work with the following parts:

#0: 35x ALPS tactile switches, 13mm tall, AND 13x ALPS tactile switches, 7mm tall

The control surface PCBs and front panel are designed around these switches. They snap into the PCB holes and are thus perfectly aligned with the panel, and poke out 1.5mm from the top of the panel, making for a neat finish.

#1: A display that fits between the PCB and panel, and a 4x20 LED backlight LCD will NOT FIT, unless you do some routing of the PCB and mount it behind the PCB. MAYBE a 4x20 "edge-lit" LED backlight LCD might fit... there's a 10mm gap between panel and PCB.

For best results, get what I have, a 4x20 PLED from One Stop Displays (OSD), part number OSD2004M01.  http://www.osddisplays.com/pled.php

#2: 3mm LEDs. It is probably best to measure the LEDs you get before ordering your panel, just in case the LEDs aren't exactly 3mm, you can adjust the hole sizes to suit.

#3: Rotary Encoders. I use some that are like ALPS STEC16B, they are the ones that Voti sell, but I didn't get them from Voti, I got them direct from Electronics China. If you look closely on the PCB, you'll see there's provision for smaller encoders with a different pinout, but they might not be the right height.

#4: Knobs. I'm using the "Waldorf" knobs from ALBS.de (just like TK!) and these nicely cover the threaded bushings on the encoders that poke through above the panel by 1.5mm.

part #863062, "Drehknopf DK16-190V3 A.6/4,5 AT=14,5 schwarz soft-transparent rot TR-3925"

http://www.albs.de/ecom/images/863062.pdf

#5: Case. The PT-10 from PacTec. If you want this control surface, there's no point using any other case. (Well, that's my opinion anyway. You don't have to use the PT-10 and it might be fun to see someone use this in a huge rackmount case, or in some other construction with wood endcheeks ot something.)

The panels are 1.5mm, you can order them yourself and modify the artwork, or lazertran on top, whatever you like. As I described in the blog, the best way to solder the control surface PCBs is by using the front panel as a guide, especially for soldering the LEDs in perfect alignment.

There's also the "trick" of gluing four flat-head screws and 10mm threaded spacers to the panel using JB-Weld. It's not particularly hard to do, but you will need JB-Weld and four little G-clamps to assist.

OK, that's it... people who want control surface PCBs now know what they need... you can ask me any questions you like about it, and I'll probably write up proper instructions you can follow... it's not that hard to put together once you follow a certain order of construction, and the hardest part is actually assembling the two little PCBs above/below the display... you can sort of see it in this shot...

... those two little PCBs are held in place with the same screws that go through the display mount holes, and through the control surface PCB (with nuts on the underside)... anyway, you'll find out how tricky that part is when you come to it...  ;D

[Wild_Weasel]

I would be in for a set! Mainboard + CS

Kind regards,

Michael

[Sasha]

Wilba, OSD`s display marked as OSD2004M01 is 20x4 and it is discontinued.  :(

Seams they have got no more 20x2 displays. I really dont understand what is the problem with those PLED`s. Are they just looking good and draws less current but otherwise sucks so they are not producing anymore or what???