MB-6582 Panels Order

[Wilba]

Well, I think it's tough enough - I was able to scrape off a JB-Weld fingerprint with a piece of plastic ;D

Would power-coating be tougher than anodized?

[Sasha]

Well, it depends. The layer itself is much thicker than anodized layer. Quality of powder coating can vary pretty much. Some powder coating are harder than anything I`ve seen, and almost imposible to take off, but some aren`t so tough. You can feel the difference just by touching the coated surface.

[huck]

i would not be interested in plastics or powder coated. plastic scratches too easily. i made the tabletop for my turntables table out of plexiglass, it is all scratched up not not quiet 2 years later.(wish i would have used plate stainless steel like i used for the legs.) powder coating has a couple of problems also it just seems to look dirty to me most of the time, and it "wears" weird. i know that anodized is not the perfect solution. however anodized has a few micron layer that is much harder than the non-anodized aluminum below it. I would gladly pay extra for filled engraving. not sure what everyone else wants.

[amp1ron]

I also am concerned about durability... I'm keen to go with what the majority want, if people prefer expensive, durable, paint filled engraved artwork or cheaper, less durable, silk-screen.

I'd be glad to pay more for better durability.  The only potential problem I remember about powder coating is that it can fill in threads and make holes smaller, so if powder coating was done after machining of the panels, them all the LED and button holes might end up smaller than they were drilled.  If powder coating was done before machining, that wouldn't be a problem, but I don't know if the powder coating machines cleanly.  In other words, I wonder if machined holes on a powder coated panel might have rough edges.

Here's a proposal for alternate artwork:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wilba6581/mb-6582/MB-6582_frontpanel_alternate.pdf

Note the only major difference is the inverted labels for the control groups (i.e. black text on a white background). All lines and other text is identical to the original panel in FPD.

That alternate artwork looks very nice to me.  I'm guessing that the reversed text would be pretty tough to engrave/mill.

[Sasha]

New artwork lables looks exactly like I did for Endorphin, except, they are mirrored, but I don`t mind...

I wonder if machined holes on a powder coated panel might have rough edges.

No, they dont. Check my powder coated panel I made for Endorphin.

i would not be interested in plastics or powder coated. plastic scratches too easily. i made the tabletop for my turntables table out of plexiglass, it is all scratched up not not quiet 2 years later.

Not all plastics are scratchable. Check out, again, my Traktor controller panel. It is extremely durable. No way it can be scratched! But I wont pressure you any longer as you probably think I am payed by Rowmark to advertise them. Only thing is you need some support from behind for bigger areas, but it is not some problem.

[Doug Wellington]

While we're all running around crazy-like, let me throw one more possibility out.  We could have panel overlays made like c0nsumer did on his x0xb0x.  Check it out:

http://www.nuxx.net/wiki/x0xb0x

Doug

http://www.analognotes.com

http://www.stoogepanels.com

http://www.dougwellington.com

[Altitude]

Heh, I was going to recommend that..

I have that overlay on my x0xb0x and it its wonderful.  Their (meaning Maverick) pricing is also very good at quantity so having FPE doing the machining with no engraving and a label would probably still be less than having FPE doing milling and engraving

[Davo]

There's someone in the UK who can take Front Panel Express files and turn out front panels for about a quarter to half of what FPE charges.  He mainly does synthesizer stuff and had a stock of Oakley panels.  Does anyone remember who this is?  I lost the URL and can't seem to track him down with Google.

[Wilba]

There's someone in the UK who can take Front Panel Express files and turn out front panels for about a quarter to half of what FPE charges.  He mainly does synthesizer stuff and had a stock of Oakley panels.  Does anyone remember who this is?  I lost the URL and can't seem to track him down with Google.

This guy?

http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm

[Wilba]

Heh, I was going to recommend that..

I have that overlay on my x0xb0x and it its wonderful.  Their (meaning Maverick) pricing is also very good at quantity so having FPE doing the machining with no engraving and a label would probably still be less than having FPE doing milling and engraving

How thick is that overlay? I assume they cut the holes it in too, doing that manually would be  annoying.

[Wilba]

New artwork lables looks exactly like I did for Endorphin, except, they are mirrored, but I don`t mind...

Damn, I knew I saw them somewhere!

That was totally accidental, Sasha, I would have credited you otherwise!

Although my original panel intentionally stole some elements from d2k's panels:

Note vertical line and vertical text labelling a "group".

[Wilba]

But I wont pressure you any longer as you probably think I am payed by Rowmark to advertise them. Only thing is you need some support from behind for bigger areas, but it is not some problem.

Sasha, I am not against using this stuff, it's just I'm concerned about the strength. MB-6582 fits together and works because the panel is 1.5mm aluminium, which is stiff and holds the large PCB flat and parallel. I can't be sure anything else will work as well, especially the gluing of threaded spacers to the back with JB-Weld. So it's really a case of going with the material I know works, rather than risk everyone's money on a panel that doesn't work with this construction method.

[Davo]

This guy?

http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm

No.  The one I'm thinking of has an engraving and milling machine with which he makes engraved panels exactly like Front Panel Express.

[Altitude]

How thick is that overlay? I assume they cut the holes it in too, doing that manually would be  annoying.

Its about the tickness of a piece of card stock and about as rigid but it is made out of lexan.  Its similar to the label that is used on the evolver but maybe twice as thick.  Very durable stuff and you can get all sorts of neat things , like clear windows, with it.  Everything is cut out for you and it is a highly precise, industrial label.  C0nsumer has the illustrator file on his wiki which may be a good place to start if you want to take a swing at it since it is already laid out for the PT10 case

Here is a close up of the one on my x0x:

[amp1ron]

There's someone in the UK who can take Front Panel Express files and turn out front panels for about a quarter to half of what FPE charges.  He mainly does synthesizer stuff and had a stock of Oakley panels.  Does anyone remember who this is?  I lost the URL and can't seem to track him down with Google.

I found a link described as "UK Service for engraving synth panels (etc)" that links to http://www.cncpanels.co.uk/ but the cncpanels site only has this text on their homepage:

IMPORTANT NOTICE 20/11/2006

DUE TO PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES I

HAVE HAD TO STOP MY ENGRAVING SERVICES.

APOLOGIES FOR ANY INNCONVENIENCE THIS MAY CAUSE.

Steve Thomas

Could this be the UK guy you were thinking of?

[Wilba]

I found a link described as "UK Service for engraving synth panels (etc)" that links to http://www.cncpanels.co.uk/ but the cncpanels site only has this text on their homepage:

Could this be the UK guy you were thinking of?

Well I was thinking it was Steve Thomas, because my memory associated the "panel guy" with the guy who did that nice TB-303 sequencer (which I posted the link to), and I have an unfinished draft email to him as well about getting panels made (a long time ago). I recall he was offering to make TK's MB-SID panels on demand for people.

But back to the topic of the day: lexan overlays.

I like the idea for a few reasons, it certainly is going to be more durable than silkscreen, multicolour artwork is a possiblity (if that appeals to people) and there is opportunity for some really fine detail (again, if that appeals to people).

Doing the math, the FPE frontpanel price without the engraving is $59.04 for 1-4 pieces, down to $41.33 for 20-29 pieces, and assuming a similar price break to the quote, at most $39 for 70+ pieces. I'm getting a new quote for panels without engraving.

I've got no idea of the cost of the overlays, but surely they would come under $10 each in a bulk order. I will make contact with Maverick and get some idea of the cost of this job.

I wouldn't bother with lexan overlay on the rear. There are only two sockets you could "get wrong" (MIDI In/Out). Blank panels on the rear would be fine by me, and I assume everyone else. You guys will be constructing the PCB yourselves, so you'll know which is MIDI In, it's the one above the optocoupler!

So I also assume the overall the cost should be less than an engraved panel from FPE and the best of both worlds (I cannot praise FPE's accuracy and routing enough, it's perfect!) At this point, it's probably best to go with FPE for the panels because they're a known-good supplier... not that I wouldn't love to give the job over to Doug or another proficient person with CNC routing skills.

One GOOD THING:

Overlays can be manufactured after the panels have been made, distributed, and used to construct the control surface. You need the panel to construct the control surface. There is no avoiding this. So we can get the panels made now, and people can start constructing while the overlays are designed and made.

[Wilba]

Ouch!

Just used Maverick's instant quote for the job: $35.50 each for 80 pieces.

So overall, not cheaper than FPE engraved panels, but a swish look.

Comments anyone?

[Altitude]

I hear you on all points, the rear panel connections can be listed at the top of the main panel like it is on the x0xbox.  Consumer charged $42 for his overlays but he only got 12 made so I would assume that there should be a considerable chop down in price in the potential qtys we are looking at.  I already talked to Limor/Ladyada and she gave me the place that she got the x0x ones made so once you have the cad files ready, I can send those there for quote also as well as farming them out locally.  I live in Michigan which is a heavily industrialized state so machine shops are quite numerous and with all the plants closing are all hurting for work so it would make sense to have everyone farm out the work and see who can get them done the cheapest.

[Wilba]

I wouldn't want the connections on the top of the main panel. There's no real point and there's no room.

$35.50 is the bulk price for the overlays from Maverick. The problem is the number of holes. If you take out all the holes for LEDs, it goes down to about $19. Which might not be a bad look either, if you can specify translucency for where the LEDs go, but it wouldn't look as old-school without the LEDs poking through ;) I'm assuming c0nsumer's price was a combination of far less holes and far less order quantity.

I'll send the DXF files to people interested in getting quotes for the panel production (although I still think $39 is a hard price to beat).

[cimo]

hi there

as mentioned to Wilba i have not too much time for this project but i joined cause... well cause i couldn t resist.. if there is anything i can help with, ask

about the panels i am on, count me in whatever it is the final choice

simone

[Davo]

I found a link described as "UK Service for engraving synth panels (etc)" that links to http://www.cncpanels.co.uk/ but the cncpanels site only has this text on their homepage:

Could this be the UK guy you were thinking of?

Yes, that's the guy.  I doublechecked with archive.org.

[Wilba]

No I was just talking about labeling them there instead of on the back.

Yeah I know, I meant to say I wouldn't want the labels for the rearpanel connections on the top of the main panel. Looks alright on the x0xb0x, but wouldn't look nice on the MB-6582.

[Wilba]

I was hoping to come up with a cheap quote from a local panel manufacturer, but unfortunately I cannot.

For a 70+ piece quantity, black anodized with white silkscreen, including taxes:

Frontpanel AU$86.9

Rearpanel AU$52.8

You would think for a job worth this much, they would give a decent price. That's nearly AU$10,000! And six weeks lead time! I would rather get it done by Front Panel Express.

I am ready to forget about alternatives and arrange a bulk order through FPE for engraved panels. If people want to go with lexan overlays or silk screen then that's fine by me, I will make all the files available to everyone. However, I think a lot of other people are happy with FPE's price and quality and the look of engraved artwork.

[Davo]

I am ready to forget about alternatives and arrange a bulk order through FPE for engraved panels. If people want to go with lexan overlays or silk screen then that's fine by me, I will make all the files available to everyone. However, I think a lot of other people are happy with FPE's price and quality and the look of engraved artwork.

FPE has been tried before and is known to work.  I'd rather have panels from there than something untried.

[stryd_one]

Yep FPE sounds like the way to go mate... Unless something better comes along.

I do like the idea of the FPE panel unengraved+lexan overlay with transparencies....but is there room to drop the LED's in a bit?