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Everything posted by Zam

  1. Fader Automation

    Some update Today I receive the last components order I've got 99% of the parts needed, except AOUT_NG... i got MF_NG pcb in place from Tim :sad: Zam
  2. Same as Kristal, isopropyl alcohol is the way to go. Once I buy "special" flux cleaner, just melt the pcb varnish :angry: best Zam
  3. Fader Automation

    Hello Fantom My project is not an easier way than MF_NG with the PIC18 In fact there is more part involved, DA converter driving an analog PI controller for the motor (6 opamp 5 transistor). Then AD converter to read the servo track position, this signal is buffered (analog side) and splited, AD input and PI comparator MF_NG is a great system for digital controller only, but I need better noise floor for my analog console, digital/PWM noise leak badly to the audio side. best Zam
  4. Fader Automation

    hey No need now to have exact current. If no table is available, I will do measurement when everything is hooked together. I plan to order some 3 or 5A psu for the proto, way enough for one fader I think then I will calculate for a complete system. I plan to use: one Dout and one Din, one opamp for touch, 6 button, 6 led, one relay. All this for one fader (proto) but if it's ok i go for 16fader... One Ain (64 is enough for 16 ch !) One Aout for 8 fader, two in total. Best JS   question for TK :rolleyes: I don't remember if I ask before, is it easy for you to translate the MF table (to match fader curve) for Aout ?   Best JS
  5. Fader Automation

    Hello Novski :)   Tks for the power supply precision, now I understand why I never find the 3.3v Input :) So I just need the 5v for all logic board, excelent ! By the way is there some info about current needed for each MBHP modules? Maybe i miss this too in my wiki search...   Now I think I'm ok with pin assignment for any 10pin J connector.   Best JS   PS: STM32F4 is also available at RS
  6. Hey all   I order MF_NG and a PIC from Smash TV 10 days ago, I read about possible delay, no problem at all I'm just wondering if it's normal I don't receive any confirmation email about my order ?   Zam  
  7. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    Hey all !!! I'm back to this :) I just ordered pcb from smashTV, in fact a 32 core, AIN, AOU, and DIO now have to order the BOM for all this, and finish the analog PI pcb under eagle, Phase II "Studer Motion" on the way :) Zam
  8. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

      Hello Novski i'm sorry to not be so active since few weeks, i announced analog PID proto for September, but I have lot of work at the studio, so it's delayed a little. The advantage of analog driver (if it's the question), is a real variable DC signal. I hope both mechanical and electrical noise will be lowered. After all test performed this summer I become convinced that analog audio signal and PWM/SH pulse are not friendly, I can't let this project with compromise. My "hi end" desk deserve the best. Regards Zam
  9. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    hey Thorsten   you can find the schematic here  page 115   Ufader (P9-7) come from the fader, servo track 0-5V (look at page 89, signal is also send to some Ain). Usoll (P9-1) come from the processor board, IntelMCU out, analog mux/demux and flipflop is folowing (starting page 141), don't know the signal but i think it's DAC 0-5V. That's here i'm thinking to plug some AOUT with "simple" PitchBend to CV (log with the new table tool). We just need one output, this is the the target position from 0-5v, the motor direction is given by the sum from this voltage value and Ufader voltage. With 2.5V offset I guess.   The "stop motor" is also at analog side troughs Q5, don't know how to implement this right now I have to think about. You have the sensor detection circuit at the bottom of the shematic IC3 IC4 Q6 Q7, not sure how it work, but maybe we can use TOUCH (P9-6) going to some AIN or SR so computer and DAW know that something is touched, and route this trough another AOUT going to ENABLE (P9-2). There is no need for script that stop the PWM or (AOUT/Usoll) at this point, but send some CV to active the gate, and ground the driver input.   Voilà !   I take time (and friend help me!) to understand the schematic, don't be fooled !!! it's not an H bridge (my first visual impression), the 4 transistor are just current helper for IC1-1 and IC2-1 output.   Best Zam   PS: I'm off link for the next 3 days
  10. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    Ok!!!   I made a 42 point table !!!, 1dB step from 0 (top) to -30 and 5dB from 30 to cut (bottom). the 0 to 30 dB is about 2/3 of the fader length. I start with a 10-12 point, 5dB step table, but the 0 to 20dB is critical and realize that the audio taper from my fader is strange in this area, for example the 5 to 10 dB distance is smaller than the 10 to 15dB. 5dB table is accurate at the 5dB step spot but not between, so I decide "super accurate table" Plus I have two fader so i measure both and made an average table   I have some listening test with stereo track send to both fader, channel full paned L/R, but unmatched level is made pre fader (test for 5, 10 and 15 dB L/R differential) Then I compensate with fader, link them (group fader in DAW), and move one,  the second fader follow the the touched one with accuracy and keep the relative gain with success.   The result is a solid L/R balance without excessive floating center. I think the audio log taper tolerance is the most important factor in this effect. I don't measure this, but it sound excellent to me, let say not more than +/- 3 ° in my 60° equi triangle monitor installation. Of course it's not so accurate at the bottom of the fader, but I don't care, and I'm not sure a more accurate table will resolve this Anyway stereo tracking is WAY better compared to my actual stereo fader loaded in the desk.   The matching between DAW fader value and real analogue attenuation is the other aspect of this new table tool, and it work fine I still have 4dB offset from reading value because my fader DAW is +6 max, but I don't care. I think "relative" (as dB are) and if I reduce 7dB in the DAW my audio fader move down at the right position to reduce 7dB too   On side effect I think I can't solve, it's the DAW interpolation value when you are in the "positive" side of the fader (0 to +6) when you are in this area with one fader the other (linked) folow closer and closer to reach the +6 at the same time, killing the relative gain.   For me this function is a FULL success, exactly what I'm looking for, Thorsten you are a MASTER. Maybe at the moment i'm the only one that have some interest in this but i'm sure all of you will find this useful for some function, like matching a specific dB scale label in your front panel even if it's only a DAW remote, or have some custom curve response under the finger, super accurate in some area...   Tks a lot :thumbsup:   I have lot of work in the next few week, but i'm still aroud. In september i will prototype an analog PI controller from latest 90' analog automated studer desk. No PWM, no H bridge, no motor noise... smoooooooth DC I have to think how to substitute the MF board with the AOUT and his DAC, but keep your wonderful soft side Is that easy to "just" remove the PID controller in the MF soft and assign output not to the PIC PWM but AOUT ?   best   Zam
  11. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    hello   sorry for the delay, lot of work at the studio currently testing the new table tool with the fader loaded, it work :)   I will give more feedback this evening, when I optimise my table   Zam
  12. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    Thorsten   It's fine, I don't need more. My only need is to know the 10bit value for a specific fader position to edit the table. I have the formula, and I will try your code to have a direct reading in MIOS in place of PB value   On my side I will instantly visualize the change when monitoring the audio level, no need for other tools   Hope I can load the fader tomorrow or monday, and giving you a definitive feedback   Best regards Zam
  13. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    Thorsten   I just have a quick test, here is my report:   I was able to generate the table without any problem I understand (but I be wrong) that "cal_tables_only.hex" only change the table, but it reset the whole setting   Fader respond fine to the new table when monitoring position data in MF tool curve Extreme setting for ex my @x = (0, 765, 1023); my @y = (0, 256, 1023); get the PID lost and fader have oscilation but I don't think some one use so extreme setting   I don't try more than 3 point for now   As I say i'm in the middle of mixing session, so i'm not able to put my motor fader in the desk frame, I can't check with audio passing trough and some 10 or more value table   Now, one question! How can I monitor the 10 bits value data used, i can only monitor 14bits PB value to take and record the point I need for my table.   anyway great job ! tks a lot man.   Best   Zam   --------- edit: i have my answer done with openoffice calc and some brain burning :rofl:   pitch bend value (+/- 14 bit) (say A data) then B=A+8192 (to have a 0 to 16384 as B data) then C=(B/16384)*1024 to have linear scale from14bits to 10bits   result seem more than realistic so I hope I'm right ?   now with "C" I have a direct value to edit my table :)   OK now I write all this and feel stupide... here is the one formula conversion... C=((A/16384)*1024)+512 ...
  14. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    Hey Thosten I don't expect this so fast !!!! you are amazing I'm in the middle of mix session, I'm back to you asap :) best Zam
  15. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    Thorsten   increasing the MIOS_SRIO_UpdateFrqSet to 32ms result to intermodulation around 30hz (31.35 to be precise), of course way better than the 1ms/1khz. The "fundamental" pulse still there even 10us (i was able tu reduce a little to sensitivities at 5 with shielded wire). Usable at mixing process, but not when printing the mix so an easy solution to desactivate the SR with a single button is an option. How it is easy to ad button function that is not a part of the user parameter in MF_NG tool ? Also I run long wire (60/70cm) as mechanical integration is not easy, I think now I can't go to my first route with the pcb at the back of the console, I have to go with shorter wire and find room closer to the fader modules. I have 3 cm free under the armrest, needed to remove fader and channel by sliding in this modular system. I will find a solution to put the MF PCB here, with easy remove system to be able to service the desk.       Cool ! you are cleaver :rolleyes:   Best Zam
  16. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

        I think perl is already installed with devtools on my computer? also a working gputils as I was able to compile with your terminal command. How many "given point" can we use? if possible 14 should be good. lets say 0-5-10-15-20-25-30-35-40-45-50-60-70-cut I will made new measurement for respective PB value at both side, fader DAW and analog fader   ----   Also i just drop some update about analog side accuracy i'm able to reach with new setup. I'm less than +/- 0.5 dB between automation rec and automation play I'm around +/- 0,05 dB between two automation play (audio recorded two time trough automated fader, with phase cancellation test) The system miss shoot with 1 dB accuracy from the automation print, but always miss shoot the same with 1/10dB accuracy it's in the 1mm range! i'm close to the 1024 step in 10cm fader, i can't do better and I'm happy with that :smile:     Best   Zam
  17. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    hello   I try again to compile trough xcode without succes :(   Zam  
  18. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    Man !!!! It work :rolleyes: HUGE improvement in audio noise, this f... 1Khz noise go away I still have the shift register 10us pulse clicking in audio (my PSI monitor are so efficient revealing fast transient), but as I lower MIOS_SRIO_NumberSet to 32ms (0x20) the intermodulation go down to 31.25hz in place of 1K, so just become inaudible   back soon   Zam
  19. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    hello Thorsten tks for help   10 min to understand why terminal answer me "No such file or directory" when I send cd command... it need a space you have my skill level :sad: I was finally able to execute your command, seem to work, I have a new .hex (regading the info date) also .cod and .ist   I will try to change MIOS_SRIO_NumberSet number   --------------------------------   Now some question to be sure I understand correctly.   MIOS_SRIO_NumberSet is the trig clock from PIC RD4 right? so if I increase to let say 0x05, my noise frequency should go down to 200hz (5/1000sec) ? MIOS_SRIO_UpdateFrqSet is the time the shift register take info ? it determine the touch response time to standby the motor right? here we have 10ms   Now, were is the parameter (if one) who set the master clock used by MIOS_SRIO_NumberSet? What can I do if I want MIOS_SRIO_NumberSet to be 0.05 ms (20kHz) or better 50kHz/0.02ms   Best   Zam
  20. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    I'm lost in the programming side   I just try to compil by myself (as a training) the basic mbhp_mf_ng_v1_004 (without touching any code), I just have few day reading all I can on wiki and install tools   I'm so lost, that I don't know where to start to tel my situation, I feel so stupid...   I just want to change MIOS_SRIO_NumberSet in the file to test different touch sensor pulse regarding my noise   Zam
  21. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    Hi Novski   No pb actually I reduce around 220u (two 470 in series)   I made a new proto front panel in 3mm alu, it also improve mechanical noise.   I redone wiring with separate shilded cable for the 3 functions servo, motor, and sensor the servo 1kHz still there in my audio path :( I'm out of idea.   I think I read somewhere here, about grounding unused servo output and/or sensor can someone confirm ?   best   Zam
  22. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

     hey Novski   that's exactly what I say previously, reverse voltage half the time, not good at all for definitive choices and long time use. But it's a good start point test. The best result I have is with 1000u (25v by memory) so to achieve the same with safety operation regarding reverse voltage you have to use 2x 2200u (10v is enough)  in series with negative pin hooked together, so you have a 1100uF non-polarized capacitor.   I'm not at the studio, but will try a snubber RC filter soon. Also an active integrator/low pass filter between pic output and H-bridge input, i saw this kind of design in later automated 990 studer desk I just don't know if I can add a resistive load at the pic output, do you have an idea about this?   best   Zam
  23. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    @novski Did you try the capacitor?   @thorsten I just instal Xcode and dev tool on my macbook also gputils, and i saw perl is already installed I don't find gnuplot compiled, maybe I can try to compile this to enter in the programming world ...
  24. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

      yes between +/- but 50 cm from the motor pin at the other side of the two wire in my connection board. 1000uF polarized, not sure it's good with the time as it take reverse voltage in one fader move direction, better use 2 pces with negative pin together to make a big non polarized caps. Global PWM reduced around 10-20. 0 is the best but with big caps you have jumping fader at the discharge I also increase the motor voltage to 8V   It really improve the mechanical/acoustic noise of the PWM/motor noise, but target shoot seem less accurate. Let me know your report if you test this.   I'm at a corner regrading my project, i feel your interface system really good, all the software side is so friendly with HUI/MCU. But in the mean time i'm not happy with the motor systeme, PWM is good for DAW remote only, but not for fader passing real audio. I don't know how flying fader© or moving fader© system are done at this stage, PWM or not but, for sure it's silent at analog side. Later SSL and other various automation use VCA so it's another world   I try to find a solution to convert the PWM into a nice variable analog DC signal, inserting big caps is the first step. I want to try RC filter, but I find noting in the L293 datasheet regarding resistive load :( Maybe I can try 10 ohm (with 1000uF for 15hZ cutoff), it's "just" twice the motor coil ? I'm also looking for other motor driver able to output a smooth DC from the PWM   Touch 1kH trig still a BIG problem...   --------------   I think in just understand the slash/backslash\ and sine function in MF tool, and why faders don't reach the same target (at the same time) As I have only two fader for my proto, result is not behind your eyes, this functions just visually show  / , \ , and moving wave with 8 fader right ?   Best   Zam
  25. Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

    ok it was just the 7805 thermal protection   I get interesting test with various big cap at -/+ motor, actually 1000uF improve the motor mechanic and electronic noise   Zam