MIDIbox SEQ V4 Wishlist

[Gridracer]

Mute scenes are feasible, but the described handling conflicts with the multi-mute selection, as you already noticed.

I thought a bit more about the handling: What do you think about using the forward and rewind button

to switch between the current mute page and a new mute scene page?

This would solve the conflict with the multi mute + multi track selection.

A ">"  sign in the upper right of the display could indicate that there is one more page forward,

a "<" sign in the left corner displays that there is a page backward.

Saving a mute scene could be done by pushing a GP button while depressing the select button.

I also find it confusing, if settings for a song have to be done in another page.

Where do you see a cause of confusion?

My idea was, that each song provides storage for 16 mute scenes that are

represented by the 16 GP buttons on a second (new) mute scene menu page.

Those mute scenes should only belong to the song they were created in

and should not be exchanged between songs.

So i think there is no need to define anything in the song screen.

My personal preference would be to use the mute scenes in phrase mode to create different breaks that would take me to much time to perform with the multi mute selection method.

But I think there is the option to blow up the usage of the mute scenes for song mode:

You could define in the song screen at what song position which mute scene (1-16) should be recalled.

(just like a pattern)

probably yes

Will do my very best to handle it ;)

Best regards

Gridracer

[TK.]

I thought a bit more about the handling: What do you think about using the forward and rewind button

to switch between the current mute page and a new mute scene page?

This would solve the conflict with the multi mute + multi track selection.

A ">"  sign in the upper right of the display could indicate that there is one more page forward,

a "<" sign in the left corner displays that there is a page backward.

such an handling isn't practicable while playing live, as you don't have direct access and a sufficient visual feedback while selecting a mute scene (where did you store a certain scene, how many times do you need to push the Fwd/Rew button)

In addition, I think that especially in song mode, Fwd/Rwd should be used for the intended purpose, and not assigned to multiple functions depending on a menu page.

Where do you see a cause of confusion?

My idea was, that each song provides storage for 16 mute scenes that are

represented by the 16 GP buttons on a second (new) mute scene menu page.

Those mute scenes should only belong to the song they were created in

and should not be exchanged between songs.

So i think there is no need to define anything in the song screen.

So, you think that even after one month you still remember, which pattern you assigned to Mute scene #13 for Song #41, and Mute Scene #4 for Song #12 while playing live?

I don't think so...

My personal preference would be to use the mute scenes in phrase mode to create different breaks that would take me to much time to perform with the multi mute selection method.

This would be my personal preference as well, since this is the intention of phrase mode. Providing different use models only leads to unnecessary confusion (and too much effort at my side - consider, that after each change I've to ensure, that all options are still working - even features I would never use by myself!)

But I think there is the option to blow up the usage of the mute scenes for song mode:

You could define in the song screen at what song position which mute scene (1-16) should be recalled.

(just like a pattern)

(deleted as misunderstood, since I already got a better idea)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[TK.]

Better idea: Similar to Actions like Jump Position/Song/Select Mixer map, a "Mute" Action could be provided which allows you to enter a mute pattern into a song step.

E.g.:

[tt]

Pos A1  Mute  oooo **** **** ****

Pos A2  x2    1:A1 2:A1 3:A1 4:A1

Pos A3  x2    1:A2 2:A1 3:A1 4:A1

Pos A4  Mute  oooo oooo **** oooo

Pos A5  x4    1:A2 2:A2 3:A1 4:A1

Pos A6  x4    1:A2 2:A2 3:A1 4:A2

Pos A7  Jump  A5

[/tt]

Remember that each song is splitted into 16 phrases, so that you can define up to 16 mute scenes this way.

E.g. - if you don't use pattern selection at all.

[tt]

Pos A1  Mute  oooo **** **** ****

Pos A2  Stop

Pos B1  Mute  oooo oooo **** ****

Pos B2  Stop

Pos C1  Mute  oooo oooo oooo ****

Pos C2  Stop

[/tt]

etc.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Gridracer]

Hello Thorsten,

I now realize that you think of the mute scenes as an much more sophisticated tool than I had ever in mind.

Which honours you as an perfectionist!

My basic idea was to make max. 1-5 snapshots of current mute situations during live performance to be

able to quickly jump between them. (like on the Yamaha RM1X or RS7000 e.g.)

The number of 16 seemed just too obvious,  but only useful for song mode to recall the scenes automatically.

You are absolutely right that a feature that adds more complexity than usage makes no sense at all.

If I will have a flash of inspiration how to handle a SIMPLE mute snapshot function I will

let you know, perhaps it will be worth to implement.

Thanks for all your effort! Greetings,

Gridracer

[TK.]

If I will have a flash of inspiration how to handle a SIMPLE mute snapshot function I will

let you know, perhaps it will be worth to implement.

How about following solution: a special GP button function in SONG page which copies the current pattern set and mutes into a "phrase slot" of a song.

This would allow us to quickly store and restore a complete scene (so - not only the mutes) into up to 16 phrases per song, and it would allow to visualize & edit the scenes later (e.g. to remove pattern changes if they are not wanted).

As a side effect, this would also allow to chain the phrases to a complete song (if desired)... some kind of interactive song step recording.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Echopraxia]

interactive song step recording sounds interesting TK.

I have  a new request for a tempo mod to change tempo and revert back to 1st tempo.

Say you are playing at 80 bpm, you can designate a f1-4 button to press and hold while changing the tempo. Then when you release the f button your tempo jumps back to 80 bpm. To add to this, when releasing the f button, the song/all patterns start from their begining. Or tap f button to set original tempo then press again to revert back to that tempo on the beat so you can tweak filters and crap at the same time. This is sounding better as I type :D

I think this could be very useful for live slowdown/break of a track and when you release the button get right back into it no BS. it should only be for the master tempo to control all tracks to keep it simple.

This would really add to the stuttering functions talked previously.

regards,

echo

P.S

maybe even be able to adjust the time/length the tempo takes to speed back up/down when releasing f button.

yes or no?

Maybe add menu tempo speed ramp setting 1-16 user defined :D When you press original f button  then press 1-16 gp the tempo can ramp back up/down at different speeds to give your track some slapback. The thing I can think of that would get in the way of this is selecting other patterns while using f button. while your slowing down tempo you would probably change patterns to go into a new song so using 1-16 doesn't seem feasible. This whole paragraph is being thought up as I type so forgive my thought process.

[Gridracer]

Better idea: Similar to Actions like Jump Position/Song/Select Mixer map, a "Mute" Action could be provided which allows you to enter a mute pattern into a song step.

What I really like on this proposal is that it uses the already given features so menu structure stays lean.

(Just a new action type) Scenes could be fast and easily recalled with the GP buttons in phrase mode.

It would work perfect in combination with your second idear:

How about following solution: a special GP button function in SONG page which copies the current pattern set and mutes into a "phrase slot" of a song

I think holding the select button in SONG page depressed and pushing a GP button to save the current pattern set and mutes to the corresponding phrase slot (A1,B1,C1.....P1) should work nicely.

(The action parameter could be set automatically to "MUTE" or an error mesage could be displayed if the

action parameter is unequal "MUTE")

In addition, you could hold the select button in SONG page depressed and push the MUTE button to save (the current pattern set) and mutes to the actual song Position-> This could make the need of an extra "Mute Action" obsolete and provides recordabel mute changes for all 128 song positions. While the fast save and recall option is maintaind by saving to one of the 16 phrase slots by the use of the GP buttons.

I reall think that this could be nice.

Best regards

Gridracer

[TK.]

Maybe add menu tempo speed ramp setting 1-16 user defined :D

So, you mean something like this:

Selectable in such a page:

Which sounds like this:

http://www.ucapps.de/mp3/midibox_seq/mbseqv4_demo_tempo_sweeps.mp3

Good that I considered automated tempo changes from the beginning while implementing the MIDI event scheduler :)

Note that tempo changes with a definable ramp time could be part of a song phrase as well (definable in song page, similar to Pattern Sets, Mutes, Mixer Maps, etc...)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Echopraxia]

That looks pretty good there ;) Ramps could be adjustable down to ms and up to ???. I wish I had a mac right now to test. That idea was kinda last minute really. Is "fire preset" some trigger function?

I still think having a dedicated button to "capture the original tempo" then whip it back instantly to the first measure (no delay) sounds like great live tweaking to me.

I would believe that when you press -or- press and hold the button, the seq could store the current tempo. Then either release the button or press again to have your tempo return to the stored value.

Would be good for quick breakdowns and sequencing trips

Regards,

echo

[TK.]

Ramps could be adjustable down to ms and up to ???.

They could (these are floats), but you wouldn't really notice an effect - such ramps sound more like a sequencer hick-up.

Is "fire preset" some trigger function?

Currently it enters the preset screen for the case that it isn't assigned to a Fx button.

I still think having a dedicated button to "capture the original tempo" then whip it back instantly to the first measure (no delay) sounds like great live tweaking to me.

I would believe that when you press -or- press and hold the button, the seq could store the current tempo. Then either release the button or press again to have your tempo return to the stored value.

Would be good for quick breakdowns and sequencing trips

Currently you just only need to press different preset buttons to achieve similar effects.

I think that they are more useful than your proposal - you will see this once playing with the function.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Echopraxia]

Currently you just only need to press different preset buttons to achieve similar effects.

I think that they are more useful than your proposal - you will see this once playing with the function.

I will have to wait to see how it works. It looks like all these different presets are on a dedicated menu page that shows on the LCDs using 1-16gp buttons correct? I was referring to being able to change a pattern while doing these tempo switches

Regards,

echo

[TK.]

I will have to wait to see how it works. It looks like all these different presets are on a dedicated menu page that shows on the LCDs using 1-16gp buttons correct?

Yes - note that tempo changes with ramp value "0 s" will be done immediately.

So, you can store your prefered tempos there. And you can add "tempo sweeps" if desired.

I was referring to being able to change a pattern while doing these tempo switches

When you listen to the demo, you will notice that I did pattern changes during tempo sweeps.

They are handled in background. It's even possible to interrupt an ongoing sweep by a new preset, which gives you the possibility to play a bit with different up/down ramps (some kind of "scratching" ;))

The advantage of my solution is, that prefered tempo changes can be prepared - thats really important for live sessions (no need to search for the right tempo with the encoder)

If you prefer a single-button solution for a tempo change/sweep *together with* a pattern change, the song phrase enhancement will be the solution.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[TK.]

I think holding the select button in SONG page depressed and pushing a GP button to save the current pattern set and mutes to the corresponding phrase slot (A1,B1,C1.....P1) should work nicely.

Problem: the SONG button already has a second function, it switches between Song and Phrase mode.

Another problem: if somebody presses SONG and MUTE (or SONG and PATTERN) unintentionally together, the current song position would be overwritten.

I think, that it would be better to have a "store current" function assigned to a GP button, so that no (hidden) button combination is required.

So: select a pattern action, press "store current" and the current pattern set will be copied into the song step

Or select a mute action, press "store current" and the current mutes will be copied into the song step.

Same for mixer map and tempo, and maybe for future actions as well.

In addition, you could hold the select button in SONG page depressed and push the MUTE button to save (the current pattern set) and mutes to the actual song Position-> This could make the need of an extra "Mute Action" obsolete and provides recordabel mute changes for all 128 song positions.

Mutes cannot be stored together with pattern sets in a single step, since actions share the same memory locations (8 bytes of a song step can either store pattern/bank changes, or a jump, or a song change, or a mixer map, or a tempo change or a mute pattern and maybe more in future).

In addition, it wouldn't be so easy to display a complete song step (pattern set and the mute pattern) on a single LCD anymore. I would have to remove the info screen of the second LCD...

So - storing a Mute pattern in a separate song step has many advantages, and I won't search for a different solution.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Echopraxia]

"scratching"

8)

single-button solution for a tempo change/sweep *together with* a pattern change, the song phrase enhancement will be the solution.

Thanks for helping me understand it better. The phrase mode sounds like it already has everything I ever wanted and a whole lot more:D

sincerely,

echo

[moroe]

another idea:

simple controler automation in song mode to let a filter sweep over 4 patterns:

just enter start position where the controler should start to raise and end position where controler should stop raising.

there has also to be a option to define from which value the controler should start raising and at which value he shold stop.

something like "controler 74, songpositionstart 4,atvalue 30//songpositionstop 8, atvalue 115"

maybe also a option to thin out controler data.

greets

moroe

[TK.]

Ok, I will add CC ramps to the song sequencer as well.

CC ramps and LFO effects are planned as "global effects" as well, so I think that this should be combined (change the global configuration from a song)

I also think that it makes sense to increase the number of song steps from 128 to 256 to get enough place for the new features.

I restructured the BPM configuration page so that it can be used more intuitively:

The "internal clock divider" has been removed, as the possibility to select a tempo preset has the same effect.

The "external clock divider" has been replaced by the possibility to enter the PPQN rate at which the DIN Sync clock pin should be triggered (1..384 PPQN)

The "External Restart" (which can be selected with MENU+METRONOME in V3) can now be triggered from the BPM page, so that no double assignment of the METRONOME button is required. The function can be optionally assigned to a dedicated button of course. It can also replace the METRONOME button function.

Also new: the MIDI Clock Input/Output port setup can be done in the BPM page instead of the MIDI page.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Echopraxia]

Sorry if I am misunderstood TK. I thought an internal clock divider was used for each track so you could have have your hi hat track playing at 1/32nd and have the rest of the beat playing at 1/16th. Can this still be done? Its been awhile since I played with my unfinished MBSEQ.

Regards,

echo

PS nice demo of the tempo changes. The question remains if you can do those tempo changes and change a pattern at the same time not using automation.

[TK.]

Sorry if I am misunderstood TK. I thought an internal clock divider was used for each track so you could have have your hi hat track playing at 1/32nd and have the rest of the beat playing at 1/16th. Can this still be done? Its been awhile since I played with my unfinished MBSEQ.

Of course, local clock dividers are still available for each track and clocks can be divided by any number of ticks, not only the even ones (to avoid unnecessary requests of features which already exist since v3)

I mean the global clock divider which was selectable in the v3 BPM menu, and which was called "Internal clock divider" since there was also an "External clock divider" for DIN sync.

It could also be called "PPQN scale"

E.g., it allowed you to slow down the tempo from 140 to 70 (1:2), 35 (1:4) or 17.5 (1:8 ) by pushing a single button.

Now the tempo and ramp is completely configurable, there are 16 preset slots - therefore this clock divider (which was a simple but useful effect) is obsolete.

Since you probably never discovered this nice feature before, you won't miss it! ;)

PS nice demo of the tempo changes. The question remains if you can do those tempo changes and change a pattern at the same time not using automation.

Yes!

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Echopraxia]

[glow=red,2,300]echopraxia does happy dance[/glow]

[break sl]

Hello,

I would like to know if there is a certain releasedate of the new MIDIbox SEQ V4? I read it should be in Q2 2009...

Best wishes,

sebastian

[TK.]

I would like to know if there is a certain releasedate of the new MIDIbox SEQ V4? I read it should be in Q2 2009...

The firmware is currently in a state at which commercial companies would already release it as a v4.0 version. ;)

Everybody who already owns a MBHP_CORE_STM32 module is able to use the firmware, it's located in the repository, usually I send precompiled binaries on request if somebody doesn't want to install the gcc toolchain on his computer.

Sidenote: it isn't required anymore to recompile the firmware on HW customisation, as all hardware settings are done in a configuration file stored on SD card (see MBSEQ_HW.V4), which can be edited with a common text editor.

I haven't released it for public yet, as SmashTV is still working in a solution to provide MBHP_CORE_STM32 modules with presoldered and tested STM32 for those guys who don't want to solder this SMD chip by themself, and/or don't own a JTAG programmer (or RS232 based programming device). For those who prefer pure DIY: MBHP_CORE_STM32 schematic and layout are stable since some months! (but Smash has improved the layout for production meanwhile)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[latigid on]

And besides, the STM Core will use an updated chip with parallel CAN/USB that hasn't been released yet

(?)

[TK.]

No, CAN isn't really required for MBSEQ, it could be nice for MBSID V3, but this is far future, especially as it could take more than one year until STM releases the STM32F106x series for production!

MBSEQ V4 will use the current MBHP_CORE_STM32 module, I don't see any reason why another chip should be used. The performance will be identical (both chips are clocked at 72 MHz)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[break sl]

Thank you, Thorsten,

that leads me to my next question. does the architecture of some modules change? if yes, which ones?

Do you think it is a good idea to start with V4 as a newbie or should I start with V3?

greetings, Sebastian

[Gridracer]

commercial companies would already release it as a v4.0 version.

....................which they would do with an delay of at least six months..........

which tells us again that commercial products just can't meet midibox standards....  :)

all hardware settings are done in a configuration file stored on SD card (see MBSEQ_HW.V4)

That's nice! But from looking at that file I could not figure out if it will be possible to assign menu functions to the F1-F4 buttons like on MB SEQ3.4 by editing SEQ_BUTTONS.INC:

e.g. I use the F2,3,4 buttons to call MORPH, MIXER, TRANSPOSE Page as I use them frequently.

How would this look like in MBSEQ_HW, or is it no longer possible?

greetings, Gridracer