Where can I find a new SY99?

[Green Xenon]

Hi:

Where can I find a new SY99 keyboard? I don't trust the used ones.

Thanks,

Green Xenon

[ssp]

its not made anymore you would have to buy second hand it what yamaha call a legacy product

[Green Xenon]

its not made anymore you would have to buy second hand it what yamaha call a legacy product

Is it possible that some of the second hand ones are not "used"?

[nebula]

How old are you?

[Futureman]

Yamaha stopped making that a while ago...

Why don't you trust the used ones? did they do something bad in the past? ;]

[Green Xenon]

How old are you?

25

[Green Xenon]

Yamaha stopped making that a while ago...

Why don't you trust the used ones? did they do something bad in the past? ;]

Usually the used ones don't work properly or are too dirty to use. No offense.

Sorta off-topic but I'm very sensitive to outdoor dirt. There is a good chance the used ones came in contact with grass, soil, pollen, asphault, concrete, and other outdoor dirt. I'm allergic to amounts of those substances which others can tolerate. That's why I'm an indoor person. If I touch the outdoor floor, I immediately have to wash my hands with clean water. I can't use soap or other chemicals either -- just pure clean water. I can handle small amounts of dirt particles that are present in most habitable environments, however, construction work just gets my nostrils flaring.

I also have Asperger's syndrome which further increases my sensitivity to physical discomfort. This is why I am very particular about the clothes I wear. Discomfort which most can ignore, feels like pain to me.

Sorry for getting OT but that's my main concern about getting a used product. Because SY99 has electric parts, I can't wash it with water. Water-safe products I don't mind buying whether used or new.

[SLP]

Because SY99 has electric parts, I can't wash it with water.

Actually distilled water will work. I've once heard of a guy (cimo?) who spilled soda over his macbook and got it back to life with washing it out in distilled water.

Just make sure it is really dry afterwards.

[ssp]

its simple then goto a chemists and by some alcohol wipes and also some latex gloves get the talc coated ones as these will feel better against your skin, then while wearing the gloves wipe clean the keyboard.

i have had to do this an many times with other things due to my low immune system and various other issues. this way i know its clean, the talc coated latex gloves are not tight and are easy to remove, you can also get the more loose fitting ones that are not coated but are very loose fitting.

mosty people with AS do this when it comes to cleaning because of a set in way doing things and a discomfort when the normal routine which has become embedded is altered in any way, also the fixation of clenliness which can also be a part of AS can be dealth with as the brain will associate the fact of cleanliness and sterility which comes from the gloves and sterile wipes.

now you may say yes thats fine but the fact there may be dirt inside means its still an issue to you, well you can also get some isopropyl impregnated wipes or again use the steri wipes and open the case and clean inside also. however you must bear in mind that over a period of 1 month you will shed so much skin cells and accumilate dust etc on the keyboard that you will find yourself cleaning it constantly.

using the above method will over time allay your AS and mean that you will accomodate the keyboard and its previously dirty state into your routine.

[Green Xenon]

Actually distilled water will work. I've once heard of a guy (cimo?) who spilled soda over his macbook and got it back to life with washing it out in distilled water.

Just make sure it is really dry afterwards.

So I can wash the SY99 in distilled water w/out harming it?

[Green Xenon]

its simple then goto a chemists and by some alcohol wipes and also some latex gloves get the talc coated ones as these will feel better against your skin, then while wearing the gloves wipe clean the keyboard.

i have had to do this an many times with other things due to my low immune system and various other issues. this way i know its clean, the talc coated latex gloves are not tight and are easy to remove, you can also get the more loose fitting ones that are not coated but are very loose fitting.

mosty people with AS do this when it comes to cleaning because of a set in way doing things and a discomfort when the normal routine which has become embedded is altered in any way, also the fixation of clenliness which can also be a part of AS can be dealth with as the brain will associate the fact of cleanliness and sterility which comes from the gloves and sterile wipes.

now you may say yes thats fine but the fact there may be dirt inside means its still an issue to you, well you can also get some isopropyl impregnated wipes or again use the steri wipes and open the case and clean inside also. however you must bear in mind that over a period of 1 month you will shed so much skin cells and accumilate dust etc on the keyboard that you will find yourself cleaning it constantly.

using the above method will over time allay your AS and mean that you will accomodate the keyboard and its previously dirty state into your routine.

Again, I will have to go off-topic but thanks for your understanding. I'm not at all a germophobe. In fact, I like bacteria. It's the allergens [such as pollen, soil, and grass dust] that makes me sick. Also, I hate anything with a sticky texture [such as syrup]. If there is any sticky substance to any extent, there is a good chance I will feel it.

Anyways, I like the idea of distilled water. I wonder if giving the entire SY99 a bath in distilled water will ruin it. Hopefully not. I'm used to the dust of my skin cells, so I could ignore it. If it gets too much I can wipe it off.

As for a totally-sterile environment, I don't really need or want that. Majority of bacteria in the environment are harmless and many even protect us against the bad bugs.

[SLP]

Anyways, I like the idea of distilled water. I wonder if giving the entire SY99 a bath in distilled water will ruin it. Hopefully not.

Distilled water will not damage the electronics in the Keyboard.

It will not harm the circuits, because it doesn't conduct electricity.

It's the same with this modded PC, whose mainboard is under oil: http://modbros.de/03c19898dc0a4ae01/index.html

And when it dries, there won't be any salts left on the PCB, because there are no ions in distilled water. So, electrically, you're on the safe side for sure.

The thing I'm concerned about is, that iron parts might start to rust if it doesn't dry fast enough.

I know nor which materials are in a SY99, neither how expensive such a keyboard is.

Do this at your own risk.

[ssp]

im not reffering to the germ possibilities im am offering a well know solution to those with certain problems with AS, doing things this way enables sufferes to be able to do something because the brain will accept the input as a positive. thats why i suggested it. i have seen others with AS use this method for various things over a period of time and in doing so enabled them to progress with that task or item.

its a suggestion prehaps you should really think about trying? i myself have a certain problem with my fingernails where i want to grow them but if i get one little spec of dirt under the nails i will try and clean them and because the feeling of dirt under the nails is so revolting to me and offensive i have to then cut all my nails off, this is a bit of a blight for me as it also made me bite my nails.

i still have an issue with dirt under my nails amoungst othe things. the gloves thing is something i have tried for certain tasks and i now accept it as a norm.

but then i need some nails !

[Green Xenon]

im not reffering to the germ possibilities im am offering a well know solution to those with certain problems with AS, doing things this way enables sufferes to be able to do something because the brain will accept the input as a positive. thats why i suggested it. i have seen others with AS use this method for various things over a period of time and in doing so enabled them to progress with that task or item.

its a suggestion prehaps you should really think about trying? i myself have a certain problem with my fingernails where i want to grow them but if i get one little spec of dirt under the nails i will try and clean them and because the feeling of dirt under the nails is so revolting to me and offensive i have to then cut all my nails off, this is a bit of a blight for me as it also made me bite my nails.

i still have an issue with dirt under my nails amoungst othe things. the gloves thing is something i have tried for certain tasks and i now accept it as a norm.

but then i need some nails !

What is best modern version of SY99?

I am looking for a keyboard that has at least 61 keys [hopefully 88] that uses AFM [Advanced Frequency Modulation] synthesis and hopefully with RC&M synthesis as well. Is there any hope of me finding some AFM keyboard that is not "used"?

[madox]

Hi,

I think it depends how much you want to spend.

I believe the Motif has FM, and I think it is more fully featured than the SY-99. Check that before buying, though. The Motif is expensive though. I think it has a good quality ROMpler behind it as well.

Have a look at the Yamaha MM6 as well. I think these have lesser sound quality than the Motif though. I seem to remember reading some complaints about the quality of the converters.

I'm not sure how many operators these have. Maybe only four.

I believe there is a pretty well featured VST fm synth now. I think it may have 8 operators too.

Do you need keys with this synth? Maybe you could get a rack, and a MIDI controller, or a VST and MIDI controller.

There is also the MB-FM option. 4 operators I think, but an interesting synth, and sounds great with analogue filters.

Hope you find what you are after.

Cheers,

madox

[madox]

Hi,

I forgot to mention, you would need to be careful washing electronics in any liquid. Even volatile liquids can cause issues with mechanical parts, such as potentiometers, and buttons. The liquid can be retained in the component, due to the surface tension.

Cleaning can still be done, but baths are not generally advised after assembly.

[Green Xenon]

Hi,

I think it depends how much you want to spend.

I believe the Motif has FM, and I think it is more fully featured than the SY-99. Check that before buying, though. The Motif is expensive though. I think it has a good quality ROMpler behind it as well.

Have a look at the Yamaha MM6 as well. I think these have lesser sound quality than the Motif though. I seem to remember reading some complaints about the quality of the converters.

I'm not sure how many operators these have. Maybe only four.

I believe there is a pretty well featured VST fm synth now. I think it may have 8 operators too.

Do you need keys with this synth? Maybe you could get a rack, and a MIDI controller, or a VST and MIDI controller.

There is also the MB-FM option. 4 operators I think, but an interesting synth, and sounds great with analogue filters.

Hope you find what you are after.

Cheers,

madox

In Motif, is there a way to use FM without the sample-playback synthesis? Does Motif's FM qualify as AFM?

Also does Yamaha MM6 and MB-FM use AFM? I hope at least one of them does. I googled both of them and no sites gave me any info on whether or not they use AFM. 

There are times when I think I should build my own AFM synth so I can really make it the way I want. However, I need in-depth knowledge of complex mathematics -- such as Bessels functions. I am hoping I can learn it.

[Twin-X]

Why not look for an SY99 that is studio used only.

May i ask what you do for a living if you cannot be outside?

[madox]

In Motif, is there a way to use FM without the sample-playback synthesis? Does Motif's FM qualify as AFM?

I can only assume FM is available without additional sample playback. I don't really know much about these synths, and just wanted to mention them.

I'm really not sure if the Motif/MM6 use AFM. I hadn't heard of AFM before this thread. Just did a quick bit of reading; it seems FM may be an additional module on these synths too. I assume this information should be available through Yamaha.

Also does Yamaha MM6 and MB-FM use AFM? I hope at least one of them does. I googled both of them and no sites gave me any info on whether or not they use AFM.

I doubt the MB-FM uses such a thing. I believe it was implemented in the '77/'99 synths using DSP grunt.

There are times when I think I should build my own AFM synth so I can really make it the way I want. However, I need in-depth knowledge of complex mathematics -- such as Bessels functions. I am hoping I can learn it.

If you want to implement something yourself, I would think a soft synth would be the easiest option. You could have a look at this site regarding AFM and DFM realised in a Digidesign accelerator card. I had a glance over it, and it seems fairly comprehensive. The name also discusses the SY-77 in his paper.

I was also wondering if a TG-77 with a new MIDI controller may be an easier way to get what you are after. I assume the rack mount '77 would be easier to clean of allergens. Generic MIDI controllers can be pretty handy, too.

[Green Xenon]

I can only assume FM is available without additional sample playback. I don't really know much about these synths, and just wanted to mention them.

I'm really not sure if the Motif/MM6 use AFM. I hadn't heard of AFM before this thread. Just did a quick bit of reading; it seems FM may be an additional module on these synths too. I assume this information should be available through Yamaha.

I doubt the MB-FM uses such a thing. I believe it was implemented in the '77/'99 synths using DSP grunt.

If you want to implement something yourself, I would think a soft synth would be the easiest option. You could have a look at this site regarding AFM and DFM realised in a Digidesign accelerator card. I had a glance over it, and it seems fairly comprehensive. The name also discusses the SY-77 in his paper.

I was also wondering if a TG-77 with a new MIDI controller may be an easier way to get what you are after. I assume the rack mount '77 would be easier to clean of allergens. Generic MIDI controllers can be pretty handy, too.

Thanks.

By AFM I mean Advanced Frequency Modulation, not Asymmetrical Frequency Modulation. However, the site you gave me discusses the latter, not the former.

If you read the specs of SY99, SY77, and TG77, you'll find they use Advanced Frequency Modulation [AFM].

[madox]

...not Asymmetrical Frequency Modulation...

oh, my bad

[Doug Wellington]

Man, I remember coveting the SY-99 back when it was still available new.  (1991?)  The chance that you'll find a new one is approaching zero.  If you're absolutely convinced that you want a keyboard that you can load samples into and then use them in FM synthesis, the SY-99 is the only way to go.  There are a couple problems that I'd like to point out.  There isn't much sample RAM built in to the SY-99.  Back in the day, they made 512k sample expansion cards, but they are more rare than the SY-99 itself.  There was (is?) a German guy who made an expansion card - his company is called Musitronics.  If you do get an SY-99 and want his expansion cards, you'll have to check the revision of your SY's CPU.  Older CPU's only support a 3MB card, whereas newer CPU's can support a 5MB card.  Something else to think about is that it is *REALLY* slow to load samples into that sample memory...!  Once you have the samples loaded, it's a big task to learn how to effectively use AFM.  FM is hard enough on its own, and adding samples definitely increases the programming difficulty.

Now, if you don't mind doing without loading your own samples and you're happy dealing with what's already in the box, you might consider getting a TG-77 and play it from some other keyboard, one that you can buy new.  Another rack synth to consider would be the FS1r, which has FM and Formant synthesis.  Not quite the same as an SY-99, but still quite nice.

If you can do without a hardware synth, there are quite a few interesting FM soft synths out there.  Check out Zebra, Sytrus, and FM8.  You can find a nice selection of FM stuff at:  http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode=results&st=f&x=0&y=0&q=FM

[nebula]

Maybe consider buying a used SY99, keep it in a room you rarely use (or otherwise contain it in some sort of case), and control it with a brand new MIDI keyboard controller.  You could edit the patches with your computer.

Or think about the TG77 (rackmount SY77).  I actually bought my TG77 used on eBay for under 50 dollars.  You could even mount it in a little server rack with glass doors.

[DrBunsen]

I think the idea of having a separate controller keyboard, and remotely controlling either rack or keyboard versions of your favourite voice architecture, is worth considering.  That way, you can have your controller regularly cleaned, without risking any possible damage to your voicemakers.  They could be mounted in a sealed cupboard or rack to minimize any additional dirt from reaching them.