Zam

Fader Automation

83 posts in this topic

Hello

 

I decide to start a new topic around my fader automation.

As i don't plan to use MF_NG anymore it make sense to not saturate the dedicate topic.

 

The "rev2" prototype is based around STM32 core

AIN for fader servo track

AOUT to drive my analog PI driver

D I/O for led, relay, button, touch

 

I design some Din/Dout board based on the matrix but with only 8in and 8out and with integrated touch detection circuit

By this I keep the whole system modular like my mixing desk, each fader will have a dedicated PCB.

 

80% of the parts and board are on the basket or waiting delivery

I hope running the first test before the end of the year :smile:

 

 

--------

 

Now the questions !

 

I start to read a little about the STM32 and MIOS32

Last revision include "toggle" mod, "on/off" capabilities for the AIN, acting like a DIN right ?

I'm wondering if it's also possible with AOUT ?

I'm already thinking of v3 proto, with "only" 1x 8AD chip and 1x 8DA chip per fader module, where I can manage ALL led, relay, button, analogPI and motor

Ending with a single "bus board" or "bus ribbon" to the core in a serial mode, (or multiplexer?)

 

second question is about STM32 supplly

I plane to use external 3.3v, 5v, and +/-15v (for AOUT and my motor driver)

I'm fine with the STM32 J2 description for 5v supply, but i don't understand where I plug 3.3v ?

 

and last... i can't find any specification for all J connector regarding pin n° and function, the GND usually use pin 1 and 2 or 9 and 10?

 

Best

Zam

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Hi Zam

 

second question is about STM32 supplly

I plane to use external 3.3v, 5v, and +/-15v (for AOUT and my motor driver)

I'm fine with the STM32 J2 description for 5v supply, but i don't understand where I plug 3.3v ?

The 3.3V is generated automatically inside a STM32F4Disco if you use that. The Chip it self doesn't do that. 

from this document: http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/user_manual/DM00039084.pdf

post-10711-0-14716200-1416291382_thumb.p

 

and last... i can't find any specification for all J connector regarding pin n° and function, the GND usually use pin 1 and 2 or 9 and 10?

not sure if i understand you right...

The Core PCB related J Connectors are described here: http://ucapps.de/mbhp_core_stm32f4.html

In the schematic of the core you can find the Pin assignment.

 

best regards

novski

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Hello Novski :)

 

Tks for the power supply precision, now I understand why I never find the 3.3v Input :)

So I just need the 5v for all logic board, excelent !

By the way is there some info about current needed for each MBHP modules? Maybe i miss this too in my wiki search...

 

Now I think I'm ok with pin assignment for any 10pin J connector.

 

Best

JS

 

PS: STM32F4 is also available at RS http://fr.rs-online.com/web/p/products/7458434/

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Hi Zam

Well the overall current will depend on the connected parts and modules like LEDs on DOUTs... I can measure the current of a single STM32F4DISCO if you need to know it exactly.

Best regards

Novski

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Hi Zam

Well the overall current will depend on the connected parts and modules like LEDs on DOUTs... I can measure the current of a single STM32F4DISCO if you need to know it exactly.

Best regards

Novski

hey

No need now to have exact current. If no table is available, I will do measurement when everything is hooked together.

I plan to order some 3 or 5A psu for the proto, way enough for one fader I think

then I will calculate for a complete system.

I plan to use:

one Dout and one Din, one opamp for touch, 6 button, 6 led, one relay. All this for one fader (proto) but if it's ok i go for 16fader...

One Ain (64 is enough for 16 ch !)

One Aout for 8 fader, two in total.

Best

JS

 

question for TK :rolleyes:

I don't remember if I ask before, is it easy for you to translate the MF table (to match fader curve) for Aout ?

 

Best

JS

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Looks like an interesting project! I would be great, to use Motorfaders directly with the Core without having an extra microcontroller running.

 

Please keep us up2date.

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Looks like an interesting project! I would be great, to use Motorfaders directly with the Core without having an extra microcontroller running.

 

Please keep us up2date.

Hello Fantom

My project is not an easier way than MF_NG with the PIC18

In fact there is more part involved, DA converter driving an analog PI controller for the motor (6 opamp 5 transistor).

Then AD converter to read the servo track position, this signal is buffered (analog side) and splited, AD input and PI comparator

MF_NG is a great system for digital controller only, but I need better noise floor for my analog console, digital/PWM noise leak badly to the audio side.

best

Zam

Edited by Zam

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Hey Zam,

I just wanted to express some encouragement. I'm about to start working on this with you, ordering parts right now. Unfortunately shipping and clearing customs takes forever so I may not be able to contribute much for about 2 months.

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Some update

Today I receive the last components order

I've got 99% of the parts needed, except AOUT_NG... i got MF_NG pcb in place from Tim :sad:

Zam

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AOUT arrives today :) i will test the motor driver soon !!!

My analog touch sensor work fine (on the bench)

 

I have some software question, is it possible to use a specific sysex message to light up a diode, (and another to shut down the same diode)

I try with event receiver and forward command but without succes.

 

Zam

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Hi Zam,

 

I would expect that following configuration works:

 

EVENT_LED id= 1 type=SysEx stream="0xf0 0x01 0x02 0x03 0x04 ^value 0xf7"

 

This should switch the LED based on the ^value which is part of the SysEx string:

LED on: f0 01 02 03 04 7f f7

LED off: f0 01 02 03 04 00 f7

 

(can be sent with the MIOS Studio based SysEx tool)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Hey Thorsten

 

I think I miss a clear explanation :rolleyes:

 

the MCU design don't have channel "read" and "write" button/led for the automation mode, but only "function" button (right hand) you have to press, then select the channel(s) you want to put in read or write automation mode with each channels "select" button.

 

My design  use dedicated button/led for read/write automation for each channel.

For the moment the "trick" i find is to send a first note activating the "function" (D5 for "read" automation) then send the respective channel "select" note with the same button. It work in some way but my "select" led keep lighting.

The DAW only return the "select" note (I think that's why I can't shut this led off...) also a sysex (the label "read" to print to the channel HUI/MCU LCD)

I'm wondering if I can us this message as a "triger" to light up my "read" led when my daw have the "read" light on

 

all this is the same for "Write" automation, plus if I hit "write" i need the "read" to be activated (if not before) and if I suspend the read i need the write to be deactivated (if not before)

 

Hope I'm clear !!! I will study more the ngc user manual, i'm sure there is a nice solution

 

Zam .... ho! ...happy new year buy_beer_small.gif !!!

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Did you already consider to write a .NGR script for this purpose?

-> http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_ng_manual_ngr.html

 

It allows you to send multiple MIDI events at once and set the LED accordingly based on (if/else) conditions.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Hello

 

I just have a look at .ngr , your right, maybe it's the solution

I just try to be little more familiar with .ngc before

 

Best

Zam

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Hey

 

some update

The analog PI driver work !!!

I have little hard time, with some error, and burning part, but i'm close to have a perfectly tuned motor driver and safe design

IT'S F....ING SILENT at acoustic side I mean, I don't plug it in the desk so I can't tell for the crosstalk at the audio analog side

I will add pic soon :)

Zam

 

PS: I spot an error in the AINSER64 board (make me fool for on day searching my pb...) at J3, RC1 and RC2 is inverted...

I don't know if it's already reported but It make sense to put some info/warning line at the AINSER64 MBHP description page !!!

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Looking forward to see your development!

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I'm in standby again on this, lot of work at the studio.

I'm also waiting to have a decent basket to order some component, I blow so many transistor in the proto :rolleyes:

Hope I can check everything left soon, and make the first 8ch batch (before summer...) then I plane around 6 month of daily use to be sure the system is strong enough.

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I'm close !!!

Until now it's a success! hard work but a success :rolleyes:

I'm on the soft side right now and there is something in don't understand about AINSER64

I check different bit resolution, but when monitoring the value I can't go better than 8bits ??? if I go less the value folow the bit resolution !!!

I would like to go up to 10 bit (1024 fader position), which is the MCU resolution.

Any ideas ?

Zam

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Teaser !!!

post-20897-0-40842700-1425752124_thumb.j

post-20897-0-39828400-1425752129_thumb.j

post-20897-0-90573400-1425752133_thumb.j

Edited by Zam

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Well done! :smile:

 

 

I check different bit resolution, but when monitoring the value I can't go better than 8bits ???

 

Which MIDI events are you using to send & receive the value?

 

For more than 7bit you need either NRPNs, Pitchbend or SysEx

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Well done! :smile:

 TKS !!!

without your system it will never happen

 

 

Which MIDI events are you using to send & receive the value?

 

For more than 7bit you need either NRPNs, Pitchbend or SysEx

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

 

I use pitchbend of course

the AINSER respond to the bit resolution up to 8 bit but not more

if I set resolution=4 i got 16 PB value in the 16384 range, steeped by 1024, this is OK

If I set resolution =8, the step is 64 which mean 256 value in the16k PB range, this is OK

But if i set resolution= 9, 10, 11 or 12 the step 64 is the same as before with 256 value (8bit) !!! this is NOT ok

Any idea ?

Best

Zam

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Nobody for my AIN resolution problem ? I have a look around here but find nothing

 

another "disappointment" I have since yesterday, It has nothing to do with MB_NG but it's about the MCU protocol,

I discover that all the led for solo, mute, etc are updated in a 1/2 sec range, not when you press a button...

Consequence is that I can't use any of this data to drive a relay driving an analog mute system.

By now my working solution is to use another midi port (not the same as MCU) and automate my mute in a midi track with midi note.

The less ... it's not user friendly like having the mute directly in the DAW channel, the same as fader and audio file

The more ... as it is separate midi track, I can insert midi FX like time triming, or arpeggio like a pattern sequencer for mute automation

 

Zam

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I've to check the resolution at my side, I'm surprised that it doesn't work like intended

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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I've to check the resolution at my side, I'm surprised that it doesn't work like intended

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Yes it will be great

For info my configuration is STM32F4, AINSER64 and AOUT_NG

Best

Zam

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