MIDIbox Quad Genesis

[Smithy]

So getting real close to ordering everything.
Im currently writing up a spreadsheet with a list of the LEDs required for the version of the front panel without the light pipes for the the LED rings.

Sauraen just one thing I noticed about the FM widget,

particularly the 4x BiColour Red/Green LEds for the operator nodes.

I noticed you're not using light pipes for these in your video, and also they're not pushed through the front panel. It looks like theres a gap or a hole if you will.

Is it possible to push these through the front panel?

Edit: I see now you're using 2 single / separate Leds in yours, 1 green and 1 red with the anodes of each in common.

I presume if I order the Mouser ones you linked I can easily push them through the front panel?

Edited September 22, 2017 by Smithy

[Smithy]

And one last thing that mystifies me.
For the TriForce parts TF1-TF3, you have Red Green and Blue next to each.

But for the life of me I cannot see any holes for LEDs for TF1-TF3.

Were you thinking of adding on 3 extra leds to create a coloured Triforce or something? 

[Smithy]

Apologies for the 3rd post but I've noticed that either my LED count or yours is off.

Here is a link to my Google Sheet for the LEDs required for Quad Genesis without Light Pipes for the LED Rings:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e7PeWjyg9Qxluu4zSR4OnmTipwN3ZEPqNWFs5G1rmXw/edit?usp=sharing

(I'm going to use Green instead of Blue LEDS for the LED Rings as you can see)

When I add up all the LEDs in my sheet I get 533 in total (bottom of the document).

But when I add the LEDs in your dokuwiki I get 553,  which is 20 extra.

 

I presume you know the total amount of LEDs required for the project or at least can find out easily using Kicad or whatever, so we can see which figure is wrong. Thanks.

BTW: I'm not including the Numerical LED Displays in this total, just the 3mm leds and 4 x bicolour leds (5mm)

Edited September 22, 2017 by Smithy

[Sauraen]

For the bicolor LEDs, what happened on the first build was that I accidentally got the wrong ones (common cathode instead of common anode), and since I didn't have time to get new ones in before I had to deliver it, I just put in discrete red/green LEDs under the panel, sort of visible through the hole. For my second build, the one I currently have, I got the right LEDs (the ones whose part number I listed there) and they work fine.

The Triforce parts are a joke--there's no component corresponding to them, just the silkscreen graphic. They're labeled as "Red, Green, and Blue" for the Triforce of Power, Courage, and Wisdom. Maybe I should have labeled them all "Gold" instead.

I just counted the actual LEDs of each color/category on my own synth in LED Test mode, and I get a total of 549. The differences from the list on the wiki are that I have 18 Yellow LEDs for lighting buttons/caps (instead of 24), and 76 Green LEDs for lighting buttons/caps (instead of 74). The numbers on the wiki were from my planning documents, but I don't remember in detail why they're different from the final version. I'm putting up a picture of my front panel with all the LEDs on so you can compare (or count if you really want). (I'm not counting the LED display segments, just the categories in the screenshot you posted.)

Of course, when buying components, you always want to buy at least ~10% extra of each kind.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Sauraen

[Smithy]

Just discovered that the System Load LEDs are missing from the Wiki!

LD52-LD67

That pretty much covers the where the missing LEDs went to.

Now my Grand Total LED count matches your count of 549!  

I've updated the Wiki with the missing LEDs.

I've also corrected the FM widget in my Google Sheet, some yellow and bright yellow LEDs were in wrong place.

Time to start oredering!

Edited September 28, 2017 by Smithy

[Smithy]

Sauraen I don't suppose you have 21+ of the Bourns Encoders spare?

Mouser are sold out unfortunately. I might put a post up in the fleamarket.

Edit: Managed to buy some 17.5mm Bourns encoders of the same type with a little help from Tim!

Edited September 30, 2017 by Smithy

[Smithy]

So Yuzo Koshiro and Motohiro Kawashima have an announced a live tour performing the Streets of Rage and Revenge of Shinobi tracks live in conjunction with Red Bull Music Academy!
 

Imagine if they knew about MIDIbox Quad Genesis, it would blow their mind!

I would love to send them a video of one of us performing their original tracks live with it.

Sauraen I think you should do it as the creator and get the credit deserved.
If not I'd happily oblige.

Yuzo has been pretty responsive to fan made recreations of tracks on twitter in the past.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Smithy

[simon-2]

Hi Sauraen and All,

very impressive work, WOW

i'm itching to build one, but this gigantic frontpanel making it so impressive also scares and restrains me from doing so... It seems that building the frontpanel takes around 80% of the overall effort, cost and time, blowing up the project to a size too large to fit into my spare time and hobby budget. Also the panel itself... so far, i did my front panels from scrap sheet metal on a drill press (+little rework with jigsaw and file), but with this layout, that way would take forever, so the only realistic option is to buy the machined part, again boosting the price..

Did you (or someone else) already consider a "lite" version with the same sound engine/functionality but much less IOs for guys like me? Would it work with the current software to omit some of the buttons/LED and access the functionality/information otherwise? As the SID, where everything can be accessed with the minimum control surface and all other stuff can be installed as an option. 

What i would like to build is not the absolute minimum, but something in-between. Full functionality as a standalone midi synth, a set of buttons/display/enc to give access to everything plus some additional ins/outs for better access to only the most important features/params. No LED-Rings, no frequency display, no vu-meter.. do you think, this would be possible with your project, or do i need the full CS to access everything?

in case it works like this-

-which LEDs/Buttons/Encs are absolutely necessary?

-which ones would you recommended to install?

-which do you use/like most? (only practice can show ;-))

-which are less important?

 

best regards

simon

 

 

 

[Sauraen]

Glad to hear of your interest! The front panel is definitely a big hurdle. I have two versions of this project for those who want to do something but not build the front panel: MIDIbox VGM Player and MIDIbox Genesis Tracker. However, it sounds like these two might not have the functionality you're looking for.

There is no version which provides the complete synth engine and all the capabilities but not the whole front panel. The controls exist to edit things and give the user feedback about them--having all of this stuff editable from menus would not only make it very difficult to use, but would require a lot of changes to the interface software. It's not too much of a stretch to say that the synth exists primarily to be a set of nice front panel controls for messing with the Genesis chips. In retrospect I understand that this made a high barrier to entry, but this is the box I wanted to build.

The aluminum is a major cost, but it is not strictly necessary--since the whole front panel is on one large PCB, you can just use that as the front panel, though it's not as nice. If you would like to go this route I can gather interest and have another round of front panel PCBs manufactured, and sell you one for a reasonable price (under $100). There would be about 10-15 hours of soldering things (like the 638 LEDs) onto it, but that's all pretty straightforward. (And since you would not be using LEDs which have to be ultra-bright to shine through the translucent plastic, you could use cheap LEDs for all of them.)  All that's left after that are the Genesis modules (which should still be for sale on the MIDIbox Shop--let me know if they're out) and the core, all of which are not very expensive or time-consuming.

If you don't want to do this, I would suggest you build MIDIbox Genesis Tracker and control the synth from your computer. I had a working build of this firmware at one point, but I've since made lots of changes to the VGM module API and not updated this project, so it won't work as is--but if you want to do this I would be happy to get the code working again for you.

[simon-2]

Hi Sauraen,

thanks for your quick reply. i think i will go for the Tracker/VGM-Player first (same Hardware for both, i guess?) and decide later on, how to continue.

a: have fun with it and be happy and/or don't have time to continue

b: take the hard way and build the full front panel

c: try it the "soft" way; i.e. fork it, take/adapt most of your code, but implement a menu structure to access params with less control elements... well knowing this would in fact be the hard way , (as i don't have any mios coding experience yet,) but also the more interesting...

will see.

[Smithy]

On 2/7/2017 at 5:21 AM, Sauraen said:

[Uploaded front panel files for use by wiki]

mbqg_fp_modledrings.fpd

mbqg_fp_original.fpd

mbqg_fp_buttons.stl

mbqg_fp_ledpipes.stl

Here are some additional 3D Models / STL files for the Buttons and Light pipes converted to the metric system for 2mm Panels:
 

mbqg_fp_buttons converted to mm for 2mm panel.stl

mbqg_fp_ledpipes converted to mm for 2mm panel.stl

And these files are for 3mm panels with the appropriate mesh extruded / lengthened.

mbqg_fp_buttons converted to mm for 3mm panel.stl

mbqg_fp_ledpipes converted to mm for 3mm panel.stl

Edited January 31, 2021 by Smithy

[Smithy]

[3D Printable Front Panel File for use by Wiki]

mbqg_fp_modledrings_Holes_Moved_ready_to_print.zip

Attached is an STL file of the front panel with raised lettering for use with 3D Printing
To produce a bi-coloured panel with a different colour for the lettering please follow this easy guide:

This file is provided as a lower cost method for producing a 3D printed front panel as opposed the cost of having an alluminium panel milled by Schaeffer which costs 410 euro in the EU excluding shipping.

However, it may be better to use an SVG file to have acrylic laser cut, which will be cheaper to order online and have more accurate cuts and engravings.
I have an SVG file ready and working with the Formular.de ordering system, but it is not currently compatible with Ponokos ordering system so I have emailed them.

I will update the thread if I make any progress with Ponoko.

Here's a preview of the 3D Printable STL file:

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Smithy

[ssp]

On 1/31/2021 at 4:05 PM, Smithy said:

[3D Printable Front Panel File for use by Wiki]

mbqg_fp_modledrings_Holes_Moved_ready_to_print.zip

Attached is an STL file of the front panel with raised lettering for use with 3D Printing
To produce a bi-coloured panel with a different colour for the lettering please follow this easy guide:

This file is provided as a lower cost method for producing a 3D printed front panel as opposed the cost of having an alluminium panel milled by Schaeffer which costs 410 euro in the EU excluding shipping.

However, it may be better to use an SVG file to have acrylic laser cut, which will be cheaper to order online and have more accurate cuts and engravings.
I have an SVG file ready and working with the Formular.de ordering system, but it is not currently compatible with Ponokos ordering system so I have emailed them.

I will update the thread if I make any progress with Ponoko.

Here's a preview of the 3D Printable STL file:

 

Hey Smithy, i have an Atacam laser system in work i use, do you have this as a dxf file? i can do a panel test when i call in next week. I can do a cut on some 2, 3 or 4mm laser acrylic and see how it comes out. I can set the text to scan engrave and the rest to cut, probably take a couple of mins.

[Smithy]

On 2/7/2021 at 2:56 PM, ssp said:

Hey Smithy, i have an Atacam laser system in work i use, do you have this as a dxf file? i can do a panel test when i call in next week. I can do a cut on some 2, 3 or 4mm laser acrylic and see how it comes out. I can set the text to scan engrave and the rest to cut, probably take a couple of mins.

Hey SSP, thanks for reaching out and apologies for the late reply!
I would definitely be interested in paying you for a laser cut acrylic front panel.
The one slight catch is I need the engraved text to be legible with a high contrast to the rest of the panel.
Is it possible that you could use Cast Acrylic at work for this? 
Or a two tone acrylic e.g. black acrylic with a white core?
I am trying to avoid infilling the engraved acrylic with paint manually.
As you can see, the original acrylic case for the midiphy loopA for example is difficult to read even in well lit conditions:
http://midibox.org/forums/topic/20833-loopa-v2-introduction-features-support-thread/

The cast acrylic would be well illuminated with the high amount of LEDs in the panel also.
Which country are you based in by the way?
Please find the dxf file attached and the original fpd file it was exported from.
Thanks for your time,
Smithy.

mbqg_fp_modledrings Updated Case Holes.dxf mbqg_fp_modledrings Updated Case Holes.fpd

Edited February 10, 2021 by Smithy

[ssp]

Hi Smithy

Yes there is dual colour laser material, we use it.  we dont use a real thick one, its about 1.5mm thick.

The atacam removes the text or graphics from the top layer of black using a scan feature, then does all the cuts through.

I am in the middle of hacking two old mackie control units, to make a custom controller. This is for doing a test fit for the boards.

 

I am in next week so i will do a small section of the panel for you to see how it comes out.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by ssp

[ssp]

The text is no good, it's plain lines and not a scan engrave text soi need to edit it. The lines are single lines and also not etch able these need editing also. The numbers are the same. Other than that it is OK. Just needs cleaning. 

[Smithy]

54 minutes ago, ssp said:

The text is no good, it's plain lines and not a scan engrave text soi need to edit it. The lines are single lines and also not etch able these need editing also. The numbers are the same. Other than that it is OK. Just needs cleaning. 

Thanks SSP. The cutting came out great! Well done! Hell I'd even label it manually myself if needs be. Let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks a million, Smithy.

 

[ssp]

As soon as I have some free time I will edit it and run it again. 

[Smithy]

Update especially for people who have ordered Sauraen's Front Panel PCBs.
TLDR: I have 4 Front Panels and 4 Rear Panels for MIDIbox Quad Genesis for sale.

Life got in the way of both me and @ssp, and we lost contact for a few years! 
Thanks for your help dude, and if anyone would like acrylic panels laser cut you should contact him!

The good news is that I ended up converting the Front Panels in .fpd format to PCB format using Kicad with lots of editing and learning.

Here's how the Front Panels came out:

 

I also designedRear Panels and this is how they turned out:

Please note that the mounting holes for the Front Panel are designed to fit the DIY Wooden Enclosure that @technobreath designed for me:

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=mbqg_tb_case

You will need to use brass inserts that take 3mm bolts, drilled into the top of the case to be able to mount it.
I will update the Build Guide I'm making with details on how to do this:
The rear panel will require using a jigsaw or small saw to cut out the rectangle for the Rear Panel.

I am really happy the way the precision of the Edge Cuts and how the silkscreen came out.

The Front Panel PCBs fit Saureans green pcb underneath perfectly as you can see in the first image embedded
Unfortunately JLCPCB did not put paper between the pcbs despite me paying for that option and 2  Front Panel PCBs had had minor scuffs:

 

 

 

Nothing a Sharpie Pen couldn't fix though.
If you are interested PM me and I can try and get a price for shipping it to your country.
Just posting to see if there's any interest now.

 

 

Edited January 15 by Smithy

[ssp]

Really pleased for you @Smithy they have come out really good. Shame about the scuffs, make sure you email them highlighting the damage and your payment for correct shipping, they may offer replacements. Looking forward to seeing the build!!!

[Smithy]

2 hours ago, ssp said:

Really pleased for you @Smithy they have come out really good. Shame about the scuffs, make sure you email them highlighting the damage and your payment for correct shipping, they may offer replacements. Looking forward to seeing the build!!!

Thanks dude! I filed a complaint with JLCPCB to get a refund due to absence of paper between the PCBs which I paid for and also a partial refund for the scuffed boards. 

[Phatline]

On 1/15/2024 at 9:53 PM, Smithy said:

Update especially for people who have ordered Sauraen's Front Panel PCBs.
TLDR: I have 4 Front Panels and 4 Rear Panels for MIDIbox Quad Genesis for sale.

Life got in the way of both me and @ssp, and we lost contact for a few years! 
Thanks for your help dude, and if anyone would like acrylic panels laser cut you should contact him!

The good news is that I ended up converting the Front Panels in .fpd format to PCB format using Kicad with lots of editing and learning.

Here's how the Front Panels came out:

hei, what do you payed on jlpcb for one set (devidet)?
is there a change to get a Sauren Frontpanel PCB anywhere?
- i am interested - but not sure that i get all i need to build this (the FM-PCBs are sold out - as example: https://midiboxshop.bigcartel.com/product/midibox-quad-genesis-board)

[Smithy]

23 hours ago, Phatline said:

hei, what do you payed on jlpcb for one set (devidet)?
is there a change to get a Sauren Frontpanel PCB anywhere?
- i am interested - but not sure that i get all i need to build this (the FM-PCBs are sold out - as example: https://midiboxshop.bigcartel.com/product/midibox-quad-genesis-board)

Hey phatline, I paid a total of $184.26 for the 5 sets of the front panel and rear panel PCBs. I'm negotiating a partial refund for the lack of paper and the 2 boards with marks on them.

So that's $37 for 1x Front Panel and 1x Rear panel.

I *think* Sauraen may have some green MBQG_FP PCBs  that have not been sold, a few years ago he had some left at least.

He is on travels at the moment so may not reply until he is home.
The Genesis module PCBs are sold out on Modular Addict, so I'm not sure if any more are available. The MIDIbox Shop is closed down and Modular Addict (USA) is the new shop for PCBs.
https://modularaddict.com/shop-by-brand/midibox-ucapps-de

Best to check with Sauraen, another friend of mine is interested in buying a set of Sauraens PCBs and my panels also.
I also need to try and prioritize the people who already have MBQG_FP PCBs.
@Sauraen I could try and get some more people interested in buying PCBs by posting on relevant Synth DIY facebook groups and forums.
When I complete the build guide I think more people would be enticed to build their own.

Thanks for your time,
Smithy.

 

Edited January 18 by Smithy

[Phatline]

ok - i wrote sauren.

if i get feedback from him - that he have a pcb - then i ask you @Smithy again - if you still have a pcb-frontpanel then.

- mike.

Edited January 21 by Phatline

[Smithy]

13 minutes ago, Phatline said:

ok - i wrote sauren.

if i get feedback from him - that he have a pcb - then i ask you @Smithy again - if you still have a alu-pcb then.

- mike.

Hey man. It's actually an FR4-Standard PCB. Non aluminium. But seems pretty robust anyway.

Edited January 20 by Smithy