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d2k

ebay scum (fao: AXEL)

66 posts in this topic

$1999??????!!!???????? $2999?????

who is selling that?

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mmmm yeah I see this...

hehe we can buy all his stuff and never pay for :D

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oh he stops his sales...

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I have threatened and assured legal action, the next move is his.

When you read my post at the Lab please know that I don't wish to make it seem like I own everything on the portal.  This is just the easiest way to force this particular profiteering Canadian to rethink his actions and play nice.  ;)

If you contribute to the portal you own and control your contribution, that will not ever change.  Axel if I have gone against your wishes in the use/representation of your work please let me know.  

The dangers of what this guy is trying to do:

1) People won't release improvements to the MIDIbox knowing that it will just be re-sold.  Would you?

2) Anyone who buys a complete MIDIbox will eventually end up here, with tons of questions without any knowledge of the build.  Users here who stick around after thier box is done (thanks so much guys!) won't stick around anymore when this happens.

These profiteers should be dealt with quickly and with teeth bare, so others who are thinking of doing the same thing get the message.

Questions, Comments?

Best!

SmashTV

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I find it particularly disgusting that this guy claims to be christian (from his website) And then says and does the things he does. This sort of thing always turned meoff about christians, though I Do now consider myself one.

This only brings shame to fellow christians and to god....

So, enough with the religious rantings.

As A midiboxer I am even More offended. and I fail to see how this guy thinks he can even do it, does he have any idea how hard it would be to make a midibox half as good as Axels? and If i were Axel......whew...I'd pity the guy for what i would do.........

Thank you much for your quick and informed statement to this scum!

AB

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Hello,

I am new to this forum but from the GroupDIY page.  I've been amazed to see what some of you folks have been doing with midi controllers and Axel's blows me away!  I think it is hilarious that someone else thinks they can even make something like that in 6 weeks!  I don't know if you guys saw, but on the ebay picture, it said "item may not look exactly like picture!"  No sh*t!  Anyway, good work here, and I hope to start popping by more some day to try my hand at a midi controller.  Too many other projects at this time though... Take care, Joel

PS SmashTV, I'm not sure if you saw the public apology yet, but it works for me.  Take care.

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d2k,  thanks for keeping your eyes open ::) for us at the portal. I hope everyone else would do the same.

smashtv, I think you done the appropriate thing.

It looks like maybe this guy learned his lesson.  :-[

Keep up the good work guys. ;D

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Don´t believe it! This fricking **** even clamed this here:

"... is based on Midibox LC open source firmware and design ... "

What the hell are those guys up to? *ARGH*

*coming down* just do hate guys like that, sorry!

Just absolute  :-* to SamshTV quickly cleaning this mess up and to d2k for finding this ... *!&§$!"%Z!!*

Greetz!

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Hi,

First of all: Internet has blurred peoples thoughts about copyright. SMGAUDIO uses pictures taken from Midibox gallery which are subject to copyright. (Remember, even if it's easy to copy picture off the web It's still copyrighted)

Then again. MIOS and MBLC are under GNU GPL. This doesn't prevent commercial usage, but gives end user some protection. (At least access to source code)

But MBHP is "NON-COMMERCIAL!" Thorsten has clearly copyrights to any schematics (his PCB designs) and restricted commercial usage.

As far as I know SMG_AUDIO has no agreement with Thorsten..

So MAY SMG_AUDIO go to hell, or maybe to the court first ;)

Bye, Moebius

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So MAY SMG_AUDIO go to hell, or maybe to the court first Wink

Thats harsh. He already agreed not to do it anymore.

If someone was silly enough to do this once, they wouldn't do it twice due to all the work involved!  ;)

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Hi,

please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing SMG did that was wrong was publish the picture of the Midibox that was clearly not the kit they were selling.

Also not crediting the work of the originator!

These are serious issues but the principle of selling kits of "public domain" IP is something I support, in that it provides DIYers a valuable service, and is an honest enterprise. So long as it is tranparent and it offers what it gives and reveals it's sources then there should be no complaint.

cheers

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Hi,

please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing SMG did that was wrong was publish the picture of the Midibox that was clearly not the kit they were selling.

Also not crediting the work of the originator!

Yes, the only thing technically illegal was use of copyrighted images.
These are serious issues but the principle of selling kits of "public domain" IP is something I support, in that it provides DIYers a valuable service, and is an honest enterprise.
Careful with that term, public domain implies that copyright has been released or that the original copyrights have expired, neither of which apply here.  Open source does not mean that the name gives up any copyright, just that he's cool enough to let everyone take a peek under the hood, and change what's there to fit thier needs.  Notice the GNU license does not contain the words public domain.

Obviously I agree with you that kits are good for the DIYers, but selling a finished ready to use box is not.  

There is nothing DIY about buying someone else's finished ready to use MIDIbox.

So long as it is tranparent and it offers what it gives and reveals it's sources then there should be no complaint.

cheers

Two things wrong with this:

1) It's not DIY anymore but paying a profiteer to collect the parts and build it for you.

2) Imagine what it will do to this community if the forum posts change from what it is today to full of questions from people who did not build thier own box but bought it.  These users will expect the same support that a company would give, but from us, who do this for fun and learning.  Needless to say that most of the old pros here won't stick around for very long, community over.  Several of the DIY stompbox communities (and probably countless others) went away due to this.

No matter what the open source license or copyright law says we have to do our best to promote and protect Thorsten's intent of non-commercial use.

I only speak for myself, these are my own opinions, and I really don't know Thorsten's view on this since we have more important things to discuss (like board layouts) when we communicate.  ;)

It's also my own opinion that the only people who should own a MIDIbox are the ones that are willing to put the time and effort into building one.  This is DIY after all.....

If you agree with my opinions a "cheers" or "hell yeah" would be much appreciated right now, since all the legal lip-service I have been spewing has made the MIDIbox less fun for me lately, hopefully my statements have not had the same effect on others.

Absolutely nothing personal intended, (read with caveman voice-->) Smash like Duggle.  ;D

Best!

SmashTV

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word!! ("cheers" or "hell yeah")

thanks for keepin things real, smash + others

lets all keep or eyes open + keep this DIY community alive!!

cheers,

marcel

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As is said before, but this time in a different phrase..."HELL YEAH!!"

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hi smash,

points taken!

I think its worth taking the time, at least for now,

to state the reasons why things are done the way they

are done and what is at stake and why.

cheers

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Ok,

Sorry for bashing.. I must read the whole topic from prodigy-pro. The public apology is ok.

Yes, the only thing technically illegal was use of copyrighted images.

I still have to disagree on this.

Ok, software, MIOS/ Apps are licenced under GPL.. You can use or derive works out of GPL software, even commercially distributed, provided that it's still under GPL.

I don't know how Copyright Law sees electronic schematics or PCB layouts. (Well, I think PCB's at least are works of art ;) )

Those are published to public, but those are "Copyright" and "All right reserved". So I think, that what we do is so called Fair Use of the works of Thorsten (and on US board layouts SmashTVs) under Copyright Law. Something like free for "Private Use", definitely not building and selling stuff for profit. Anything else must be agreed with copyright owner(s).

I think this should protect MB from commercial exploitation as MIOS/ Apps run on this particular, copyrighted HW platform.

Bye, Moebius

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I know very little about copyright laws, and even less about the moral issues of theft of copyrighted materiels,but the one thing I do know is when people come together and help one another,  you see great things accomplished, is there any greater thing than helping like minded people, create wonderful things that bring them enjoyment from life? If the whole world had the mentality of this forum, do you think the world would be a better place? Yes I am new around here, but the history is in the past posts, I can see how many people have been helped, and how many have elevated there knowledge of the things they like or even love, This a wonderful place, the creators and the contributors have done a wonderful job and I for one am glad that they have, for without them I would be in a giant puppet suit, because that would be the only way I would know how to do it.

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Way to go SmashTV! I appreciate all the trouble you have gone to in this matter. I like to let people know about the DIY MIDIBox, but I always let them know that it is not to be sold and tell them to read the FAQ where this is pointed out.

Mickey

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So not to blur the line, but wouldn't it still be ok if the person assembled all the non MIOS parts into an enclosure, with the pots, faders, and lcds put into place.  Then all the purchaser would have to do is build the nessacary modules for themselves.  Might still be considered shady, but technically it seems it'd be fine as nothing being included would then be MIOS specific.

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but wouldn't it still be ok if the person assembled all the non MIOS parts into an enclosure, with the pots, faders, and lcds put into place.  Then all the purchaser would have to do is build the nessacary modules for themselves.  Might still be considered shady, but technically it seems it'd be fine as nothing being included would then be MIOS specific.

would still be making money of the back of people who put a lot of work & effort in building/designing a system. Dunno if it is teknikaly

"fine" but it is UN-ETHIKAL. Lazy people who want to make money easy should steal ideas from commercial companies or something, not of people who are so kind that they share their knowledge with the world    

peace,

marcel

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So not to blur the line, but wouldn't it still be ok if the person assembled all the non MIOS parts into an enclosure, with the pots, faders, and lcds put into place.
OK by the letter of the law, but not ok in the fact that it is not DIY anymore.  Cheating the end user out of the fun of putting it all together is not cool.  
Then all the purchaser would have to do is build the nessacary modules for themselves.  Might still be considered shady, but technically it seems it'd be fine as nothing being included would then be MIOS specific.
Keep in mind here that if they can be bothered to build the actual modules they probably have the skill to assemble some type of enclosure for it.

My personal opinion on this: Use your skills to custom manufacture whatever enclosures for anyone here, for whatever you want to charge.  But when you load the parts into it for them, what if you make a wiring mistake?  Would this community or you be supporting what is now a product instead of just parts?

An enclosure supplier would be welcomed (especially if they also stocked knobs, LCD's, etc. to fit), while you can see the endless debate a "Plug and Play" module ready box maker would create.  ;)

Again nothing personal intended.....just punting the ideas around.

Everybody say it with me.....DIY...... ;D

Best!

SmashTV

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I think that this community is well handled to protect itself. I have been wondering if Thorsten has been thinking the same, as I have not seen a post yet from him regarding this subject. I am also pleased that he hasn't had to take personal measures, (which wastes his time).

I am not worried about the security of our community at all, and I believe this issue was handled correctly. I am also proud that I belong to community that can handle it's own issues rather than pawning them on the creator.

I also feel strongly that the only other reply we can give to this topic (regarding copyright, and what is right/wrong) is............

                                           DIY

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Bravo SmashTV! You have an excellent grasp of copyright law as it applies to open source type projects. That is something a lot of people, such as SMGaudio, have real trouble understanding. You are also right on the money as to why it is not good for the MIDIbox community to have our projects available commercially.

As simple as Thorsten's brilliant design has made these projects, they are still not for beginners. The ideal MIDIbox user would be skilled in microcontroller design, electronic assembly, programming, and MIDI. I'm sure almost all of us need help with at least one of those areas and that's what the MIDIbox community provides. If people with none of those skills were to start populating the community, those with skills to contribute would quickly be sucked dry by those with nothing to contribute.

A commercial project operates on a different model. Users contribute money and the supplier pays people to provide what the users need. If the supplier provides something that enough people will pay enough money for so the the supplier can produce and support the product, the supplier succeeds in business. If not, they fail and disappear.

A DIY open source project has a more complex balance. The users are also the suppliers. There needs to be enough contribution from all users so that the supplying users continue to contribute. Introducing users who paid a commercial entity to provide something aren't as likely to contribute to the DIY community and are much more likely to consume resources. They are mostly deadbeat customers for the DIY project. Those that can't build a MIDIbox for themselves should be paying a supplier that provides support for the product. Someone who is lifting a DIY design probably can't do that.

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