Trivial desperate minimal MBSID first-timer questions

[Flemming]

So i finally got started :) I built a core and a SID module, both from Smash..

As far as i know, the core is working (no display attached). It sent a single sysex string every time at startup, so i uploaded the 8580 hex file and checksums kept saying 'OK' while sending data.... is it really then ??? it still sends a single sysex string at startup....

The SID module does not give me any reading between pin28 and pin14 when powered, so i never came around to connecting the two modules :( being honest I have no idea about electronics in general, but i set my multimeter to '20 DCV' and then i can read about 15 from my PSU (it's a 12V PSU actually), but if i try to read between pin 28 and 14 of IC1 i get a big boring zero :(

Did i kill my SID module?? and is my core really ready for action???

[m00dawg]

Sounds like your socket is not getting any power, which is unrelated to the CORE. Pull out your chips (to be safe) and check your connections again. You may have a short somewhere or a part inserted wrong. Are you using Smash's SID board as well? How are you supplying power to the SID?

As for CORE, it sounds like that part is working - CORE always sends out a SysEx on start-up. Once you get the power stuff fixed with the SID board, instead of uploading the full application, start by uploading the SID testtone application. That should test basic functionality. Once that works, then go for the full blown app.

DO NOT do this until you get proper voltages from everything though. I recommend you have a look at:

http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp_sid.html

Make sure all those tests pass (at the bottom of the page) before you start stuffing chips.

Good luck!

[Flemming]

I'm really happy to hear that my core at least behaves okay :)

The link you posted is exactly the one i'm looking at.. but i never got to the bottom :( because i did not read 9V in the socket... and yes, it's a Smash SID module. It's powered by a 12V wallwart (i think it's called). It does not get the 5V from the core yet..

[m00dawg]

Ok so here's what you can do. First, test your wallwart with your multimeter (be sure to put your multimeter in AC or DC depending on what wallwart you are using - AC is highly recommended as DC wallwarts are switched and can produce noise). If it's reading around what it should (it may be higher with no load), then plug it into your board and start testing your connections. Start with the header pins to make sure they are getting the same voltage, then test the bridge rectifier pins (the ones from the header first). If that works, switch your multimeter to DC and test the -/+ of the rectifier and keep going part-by-part until you find something out of whack.

Of special importance is your regulator - it should have a clean 9V (or 12V if you are using a 6581 SID) between the output pin and ground. If it doesn't, you know it's something with the regulator or a component before it. If that works, lather rinse and repeat until you've tested every component up to the pins on the socket.

Chances are by that point you should find something wrong hopefully :)

Good luck!

[Flemming]

m00dawg, thanks for your patience :) It was me being very clumsy.... i did not measure the correct pins :( now, between IC1 pin 28 and 14 i read 8.92V which i'm hoping will be close enough to 9V.

Now i will connect the two modules :) but i will positively be back shortly with more stupid questions...

[m00dawg]

8.92V might just be due to error from the multimeter (they need to be calibrated every so often) but someone else might want to chime in on that one. It "should" be ok, but don't quote me on that.

[nILS]

8.92V is ok. Feel free to quote me on that.

[Flemming]

Thx m00 and nILS :) the two modules seem to work fine then.. i stuffed them and uploaded the testtone app, but no sound is coming out (i guess the app is uploaded just fine because i only get one sysex string at startup) I suspect it's the way i connected the modules, which was hard actually :) the pins are not named the same...

SID j2:  core j10:

sc        sc

mu      mu

clk      clk

vc        vd (?)

so        so

rc        rc

vs        vs

(?)      md

...so besides i soldered SID j2 vc to core j10 vd (which i'm not sure is correct) i also have nowhere to solder md of core j10??

[Flemming]

WUHUUUU :) i made sound!!!!!

Moving from core j10 sc to core j10 md made the testtone app make sound :)

I immediately ran to MIOSStudio to upload 8580.hex but i think something is wrong.. after install it sounds no more, receives no midi keyboard strokes and it starts sending sysex upload requests again and again....

Funny that the testtone app worked fine.... hmm, can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong in the upload process ???

[Flemming]

Okay, after a couple of uploads it let the 8580.hex through :) it works now.. i can play notes from the keyboard in MIOSStudio, so i'm now officially a midiboxer ;)  ......or so i thought

resetting the midibox it began to send frequent upload requests again.... where did i go wrong ?!???

[stryd_one]

where did i go wrong ?!???

You confused a workaround with a fix. See the link in my signature ;)

Is it rebooting? Sounds like it. Check your voltages, check for shorts, check for overheating regulator.... What PSU is it?

[Flemming]

You're right :) it did come back to bite me...

The workaround seems to be that if i upload MIOS and then SID software it works, until reboot :(

Actually i think it's rebooting. i hear a frequent click in the speakers pretty much synced to the upload request sysex string i receive in MIOSStudio, and the core regulator does get very veery hot....

I use a 12V 500ma wallwart which i measure more like 15V with a multimeter. Setting it to 9V gives almost 12V straight. I will test this right away... at least i imagine that the regulator will not get as hot anymore :)

Also i'm still very unsecure about the connection between core and SID module.. i did move the core j10 sc to md, but is that enough??

[stryd_one]

Be glad it came back to bite you quickly, rather than leaving you to think it's OK until the middle of a gig... And that it bit, in a way that didn't kill the core. ;)

If the test tone works, you've got the interconnects right.

You'll know if it's rebooting by the LCD.

Your wallwart sounds less than reliable, I'd replace it.

[nILS]

Cheap wallwarts have a tendency to output more voltage when no current is drawn - turn the box on and measure the voltage across J1 - see if that still gives you the 3V more than you'd expect. If so - run it on whatever gives your somewhere between 7V and 10V.

[m00dawg]

...so besides i soldered SID j2 vc to core j10 vd (which i'm not sure is correct) i also have nowhere to solder md of core j10??

I don't have the pinouts in front of me, but I recall originally being able to attach my CORE to my SID module using an old floppy ribbon cable (before I started making them on my own) and it worked like a champ. So the connections shouldn't be all that complicated, in other words. In fact (and again I don't have my synth in front of me), I though it was straight through 1-1. In other words, pin 1 on CORE goes to pin 1 on SID, pin 2 to pin 2, etc.

[cimo]

Hey Flemming

little frikadeller eater, how s life in the swamp also known as Denmark in wintertime?

Yes your psu sounds s bit unstable, why don t you pass by Brinck and get a cheap trafo? sometime they have some good deal just by the entrance. The only reliable psu is

1- an expensive one

2- one you make by yourself

cheers

see you in spring

Simone

[m00dawg]

I like option 2 myself. It's fun and you can customize the PSU to your specific app.

[Flemming]

I found out today that my MIDI interface messes up a bit when i use MIOSStudio or MIDI-OX... well, maybe it's me messing up actually. I have to practice, i guess :) Everything works fine and i even enjoyed the 128 presets after i installed a bankstick chip too

Thanks to everyone for helping me out building my first MB-SID :)

[m00dawg]

Congrats! My only suggestion is, next time, spend a few bucks on some crimp connectors from Smash and use pin headers. Makes things more clean and easily configurable in the future. I can't tell from the picture, but don't forget to jumper the audio in pins as well or otherwise you might get more noise from the SID.

[toneburst]

Nice work! Makes me want to dig out my old SID and Core modules and see if they still work...

a|x

[Flemming]

I'm not familiar with crimp connectors but pins are all over the place :) they came with the kit, so i figured they were nice to put on. I did not ground the audio in yet, i'm thinking of playing around with some audio feedback or an audio input jack... maybe both

It would be nice to have a power LED also.

I'm really impressed by the sound!! been surfing the presets and even though this is just 1 SID it totally rocks :) I would like to tweak the filter realtime from FLstudio, but it seems that it has to be done via sysex ?? hmmm, seems difficult. I looked at it in the manual but it looks very complicated. Did anyone make a control panel for FLstudio or the likes so i can tweak and record parameters ??

[m00dawg]

I'm not familiar with crimp connectors but pins are all over the place :) they came with the kit, so i figured they were nice to put on. I did not ground the audio in yet, i'm thinking of playing around with some audio feedback or an audio input jack... maybe both

For single row (SIL) headers, you have to generally use a special crimp tool (they are inexpensive at your local hardware store) and crimp the wires individually. Smash has a quick how-to on this:

http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/crimp.html

For DIL headers, it's much easier because you can do it all at once and don't need a special tool (though you have to be more careful). There's a good how-to on it but I can't find the link. Basically, you just feed the cable into the crimp connector, align the wires so that they fit inside the metal teeth in the connector and squash it down with a pair of pliers. Then you bend the wire back and put the tug guard on and call it done.

Err, well it's better with pictures :) Might want to do a Google search on how to do that as I'm sure you'll find something useful. The only time these type of connectors suck is when you have to change around wires - something you might have to for hooking up an LCD screen to core. For instance, if pin 1 of CORE goes to pin 7 of the LCD. There's a few ways to solve that one though (I think most people just solder directly to the LCD module, but I just made an ugly monster cable and re-arranged the cables by cutting the cable and resoldering.

[Flemming]

Oh sure, i know those... i got a few from Smash. I used one today in one end of an LCD cable...it didn't work out though.. i have to do it again ..

But that's not the worst part... the worst part is that my beloved midibox still is ill :( sometimes it just gets in a strange mood and reboots constatntly (i get a little 'beep' when i turn on the modules.. sometimes the beep just keeps coming).. the only thing i can come up with is that the bridge rectifier got a little got because i was too slow soldering it. Would it damage the rectifier? and would a damaged rectifier result in such periodig error??

I checked all the volts on both core and SID module, and they're just as pointed out in the walkthrough... even when the thing is doing the rebooting (hoped to find some strange volts somewhere during failure)

The core's regulator does get a bit hot, but still the voltages are ok.. i even doubleckecked the core's solderings and put on some extra tin the places i had been to cheap just to make sure (as the error is periodic i ofcourse suspect some kind of loose connection)

Can anyone help me to diagnose my poor little baby ???

[stryd_one]

First thing, is to strip it back to just a core module and nothing else.

You can either remove modules one at a time and test each time; or remove them all, and add them back one at a time, and test each time. Strict troubleshooting would say, do the former.

Edit: It should be noted that not using the proper headers results in screwups just like this all the time. That's why we added Quote #17

[Flemming]

Sure, there's only a core and a SID module but i can remove the SID module and play around with the core a bit.

I didn't get that header/quote#17 thing..?? The pins, you mean? well i just used the ones that came with the kit? a few places i didn't put in the pins though because some of them broke when i was cutting them..

Anyway, i'll strip to the core and see what happens :)