TK.

MIDIbox CV V2 Concept

306 posts in this topic

Maybe it's a strange question, but is it possible to also integrate a MIDI router in the code?

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2: Decide if you want windows for displays.  I personally dont like the displays exposed and always put a window in front.  This also means that you need a fair amount of space between the panel and PCB, a cutout, or a thin display.  In this case, going to a 20x2 OLED seems to make the most sense to match the little ones..

 

3: Case colors: Personally, I dont like the clear/tint plexi since it just gets covered in finger prints instantly.  The matte black is my go to but you really have to fill in the engraving which can be tricky.  There are a couple of threads about the techniques people use to do it.  

 

4: with matte black, dealing with the LED rings can be done in two different ways imo: cut holes for all the LEDs and just stick them through the top panel or you can just make a clear round piece that snaps in like a display window with a hole in the middle for the encoder shaft (or a u shaped on for that matter, keep the middle black)

 

100% agree on the CV/gate jacks not being on the "brain", a D connector to a breakout box is the way to do it even if it's only a foot of cable connecting the two.

 

One other thing I dont think anyone has touched upon is the real estate that the core, aout, and any other related boards will take up behind the CS.  

 

Re. 2. The 128x64 OLED's are also 13.5mm high, so there's no point getting a thin OLED 20x2. 

 

Not to mention, 20x2 OLED's with parallel interfaces are rare and expensive. AFAIK there's Newhaven and Crystalfonts:

 

http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Newhaven-Display/NHD-0220DZW-AY5/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMshRHSPqbouvApOhG8IakcvZgXzNLCZ5HI%3d

http://www.crystalfontz.com/product/CFAL2002AY

 

As for me, I'm not going to touch another Crystalfontz OLED after having 5 slowly die on me. Crystalfontz wouldn't even offer to replace them for me, even though they obviously had many defective ones, eg. the Sequentix P3 had to have many of their Crystalfontz OLED's replaced.

 

 

Re. 4. It may actually be cheaper and better looking to cut and engrave a thin, black, matte plastic overlay on top of a clear acrylic case. In one step you solve the problem of text engraving, windows, 256 LED-ring holes (or clear C-shaped inserts)

 

 

Re. 5. At this point, it looks like a P2-sized plexiglass (384x384mm) is simply too small.

 

I think it makes more sense to stick the AOUT board in the breakout box, like TK does - or even better, behind a Eurorack panel that can supply it +/-12V. One less PSU to worry about!

Edited by sneakthief

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Background: In Germany we usually prefer to purchase components from Reichelt. Prices are cheap and delivery is superfast.

 

But Mouser and Digikey both have no shipping costs for orders above 65 € to Germany. Not sure how that is for other European countries.

 

In fact I prefer Mouser to Reichelt now as with them I know what I get. Especially the handling of ICs is much better. And the orders sometimes even arrive faster than from Reichelt although they are shipped from the USA.

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In fact I prefer Mouser to Reichelt now as with them I know what I get. Especially the handling of ICs is much better. And the orders sometimes even arrive faster than from Reichelt although they are shipped from the USA.
I can absolutely confirm this. Just happened last week. And parts are cheaper and you have no shipping cost. (my orders usually go beyond the 65.- euro).

There are several mini-router available at Reichelt for around 25..30 EUR

To people who want to use the (preferred) MBHP_CORE_STM32F4: it won't provide an ethernet port anymore.

Thanks I already have something like that. I thought there might be something really small....

I don't think building it into the CS box makes any sense.

You simply don't want up to 16 CV/gates from a desktop unit extending all the way to your modular. Please trust me on this. I've been building my DIY-modular for 10 years now and as your modular grows (which it inevitably does!), you'll see what I mean.

I was building the aout in my seq3, with the jacks on top of everything (8cv/4gate). I always and still love the fact that everything is in one case and the feeling that the sequencer is controlling my synth is more intense for me. I just like compact things. And I know this is luxury but I want a dedicated aout in every midi box controller I build.

But I didn't want to distract you from this beautiful case design. It is definitely is a strong argument to have the Aout somewhere behind the desk or in the modular and only on big data cable from the midibox to there. And to have one slick desktop case for tweaking. I am looking forward building this thing.

I had always something like an euro/4u/5u modular module in mind. Direct put in my modular. I think it depends on how much/what you want to control with lemur and how much/what with the CS case. At the moment I am overwhelmed by the devices/boxes involved. iPad goes-> midibox cv goes-> Aout goes-> analog synth.

Buchla is always good for inspiration post-3513-0-83042700-1387570489_thumb.jppost-3513-0-53869000-1387570545_thumb.jp

Christoph.

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Maybe it's a strange question, but is it possible to also integrate a MIDI router in the code?

 

it's strange, but it's already integrated into the application!

(seems that I forgot to remove it from a basis template, but now where it's in...  :smile: 

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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I'm assuming most people would prefer to have the jacks in an accessible place, meaning you could mount the CV/gate jacks in a Eurorack panel and power it with a modular's +/-12V. Or in a little box like TK does.

 

What about using a 15-pin VGA D-SUB connector between the CS and the outputs? It has 15 pins plus shield:

 

- 8 pins for gate

- 1 pin for clock

- 1 pin for start/stop

- 5 pins for AOUT (Vs, Vd, CS, S1, SC)

- 1 pin for the shielding ground

 

Someone would of course have to test this first to make sure there isn't too much interference from the digital signals. Maybe a 1m cable VGA would suffice?

 

To conclude, the Eurorack panel would have a 15-pin VGA D-SUB connector, 8 CV out jacks, 8 gate out jacks, 1 clock jack, 1 start-stop jack.

You could optionally add 8 buffered LED's for the gates.

 

 

A lot to read, been away a few days! 

 

For the breakout board, please remember this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re. 5. At this point, it looks like a P2-sized plexiglass (384x384mm) is simply too small.

 

I think it makes more sense to stick the AOUT board in the breakout box, like TK does - or even better, behind a Eurorack panel that can supply it +/-12V. One less PSU to worry about!

 

And another one, I can't see why this couldn't be compatible with MBCV v2 either:

 

 

 

 
 
Edited by latigid on

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it's strange, but it's already integrated into the application!

(seems that I forgot to remove it from a basis template, but now where it's in...  :smile: 

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

 

Awesome! Now this project is definitely going into my synth :) Next to the hacked MIDI keyboard, which I will then be able to route to several modules that have a MIDI input, but also as a CV source.

I started with a webpage which documents the facts: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_cv_v2.html

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

 

Just checked the page, and the first line is a bit confusing; V2 is the successor of V1, not the predecessor (then it should be 0,5 or something) :whistle:

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Thanks for the hint! This was a stupid copy&paste error

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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it should update automatically on CV channel changes.

Are you using the MIDI or OSC option?

Could you please try the latest .jzml file in the SVN repository? I adapted it to the latest Lemur version, the old one wasn't 100% compatible.

It seems that I just have one way communication. I tried the latest software yesterday and still no update. Than I thought, maybe the lemur needs the information from the core to update? But I couldn't find any info on that. And I couldn't manage to send anything from the core to the lemur.

I am using OSC by the way. With a dedicated router. And without a computer.

Christoph

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Ok, it's probably related to OSC. I will check this in ca. 1 week.

 

 

Than I thought, maybe the lemur needs the information from the core to update?

 

no, as long as the port and IP address settings are correctly configured, it should work.

(I will check this...)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Hello
 
I have been following this project for a long time.
I wonder why not use the button on the encoders are used because they are actually so available.
 
I do not want to interfere too much myself, but would like to contribute my ideas micht.

 

Best Regards
Sorry for the google translation

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Acul:

 

TK: I don't know if you wanted to use encoders with switches... there could be a lot of dedicated buttons for specific modes, thus eliminating menu-diving!

 

 

I don't have switches in my encoders, but I could provide this as an option to cycle between the assignments (banks).

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Hello,i follow this project since many years,i ve already built a v1 MB cv , really Nice progress....the only thing "bad"IMHO ,is the gate ..0V/ 5V....many modulars need more to trigger...have you plan something about 10v/15v gate...for the ultimate midi/cv tool ?

Happy new year 2014 !!!!

Edited by boops

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have you plan something about 10v/15v gate...

 

You could add a ULN2803 after the DOUT shift registers and power the COM pin at +12V (voltage taken from the AOUT module).

Since this is an open collector driver, you've to add 1k resistors between 12V and each output.

In addition, you've to invert the gates in the MBCV2 configuration.

 

 

Btw.: current state

- I added many performance improvements in the last days

- support for LRE8x2 (encoders and LED rings). Up to two LRE8x2 modules can be connected, makes 32 encoders and 32 LED rings.

- each LRE8x2 has 8 banks with soft-assignable parameters

- assignments stored on SD Card

- parameter names and values are print on LCD whenever an encoder is moved

- bidirectional updates. E.g. if a parameter which is assigned to an encoder is changed in Lemur or in the SCS, the LED ring will reflect the new value. And vice versa: Lemur will be informed whenever a parameter is changed with an encoder

- fixed bidirectional OSC based communication. Here the setup instructions: http://svnmios.midibox.org/filedetails.php?repname=svn.mios32&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fapps%2Fprocessing%2Fmidibox_cv_v2%2Flemur%2FREADME.txt

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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- I ended up ordering these yellow/blue OLEDs from yoybuy as TK suggested: http://www.yoybuy.com/en/Show/20416112533

 

- For the CLCD, I wanted something to match the OLED so I chose this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-20x2-Character-LCD-Module-Display-w-HD44780-Controller-Bezel-White-Backlit-/291020230914?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c2285102

 

It really seems like there's no real standard for CLCD dimensions. They range in height from 12.5 - 15mm and the position of the actual LCD window can vary by several mm. Any case will have to take these variations into consideration unless you force people to buy one single model. Either that, or you simply make the window above the CLCD several mm larger.

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Either that, or you simply make the window above the CLCD several mm larger.

 

Yes, I would prefer this. We never know how long these OLEDs are available - and how long they are working! E.g. let's say the end-of-life is in 5 years and you need a replacement for whatever reason. Then it's a big advantage if the case has a larger window so that other displays fit as well.

 

Meanwhile in the MIDIbox lab:

I mounted the modules at the top of a wooden case so that they have stable interconnections and are transportable.

mbcv_v2_proto3.jpg

 

For a user this might look ugly, but for me as developer it's the ideal way of mounting, since I've access to all signals, connectors, jumpers without opening a case! :smile:

 

I also replaced the cheap LCD by a Newhaven 2x20 OLED.

mbcv_v2_proto4.jpg

 

This display is not so high like the previous CLCD, but this has to be changed by using standoffs.

Otherwise the height isn't aligned with the graphical OLEDs and the encoder knobs.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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MBCV2 got a hardware configuration file which allows to specify the DIN/DOUT pin assignments, and the AOUT interface.

-> http://svnmios.midibox.org/filedetails.php?repname=svn.mios32&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fapps%2Fprocessing%2Fmidibox_cv_v2%2Fhwcfg%2Fstandard%2FMBCV_HW.CV2

 

IMPORTANT: upload the MBCV_HW.CV2 file to the root directory of your SD Card, and especially check the AOUT_IF setting, because this is the only way to select the right AOUT interface meanwhile.

(the AOUT selection in DEFAULT.CV2 is obsolete!)

 

I also increased the number of banks to 8.

With the default LRE encoder assignments, it "feels" like each CV channel has it's own bank which allows to change values like Octave/Semitone transpose, Finetune, Portamento, LFO1/2 Depth and Rate, ENV1 Depth and Decay, ENV2 Depth and Rate and MOD1..4 Depth.

It's possible to customize the assignments by pressing SCS SHIFT+"Enc Cfg".

E.g. you are able to change the assignments, so that parameters of different channels can be controlled from a single encoder bank! :)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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You could add a ULN2803 after the DOUT shift registers and power the COM pin at +12V (voltage taken from the AOUT module).

Since this is an open collector driver, you've to add 1k resistors between 12V and each output.

In addition, you've to invert the gates in the MBCV2 configuration.

Btw.: current state

- I added many performance improvements in the last days

- support for LRE8x2 (encoders and LED rings). Up to two LRE8x2 modules can be connected, makes 32 encoders and 32 LED rings.

- each LRE8x2 has 8 banks with soft-assignable parameters

- assignments stored on SD Card

- parameter names and values are print on LCD whenever an encoder is moved

- bidirectional updates. E.g. if a parameter which is assigned to an encoder is changed in Lemur or in the SCS, the LED ring will reflect the new value. And vice versa: Lemur will be informed whenever a parameter is changed with an encoder

- fixed bidirectional OSC based communication. Here the setup instructions: http://svnmios.midibox.org/filedetails.php?repname=svn.mios32&path=/trunk/apps/processing/midibox_cv_v2/lemur/README.txt]http://svnmios.midibox.org/filedetails.php?repname=svn.mios32&path=/trunk/apps/processing/midibox_cv_v2/lemur/README.txt

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Thanks Tk,in fact i really need a 15 v gate ...i ve got +/-15v And 5V on board.

Here part of the datasheet...

The eight NPN Darlington connected transistors in this family of arrays are ideally suited for interfacing between low logic level digital circuitry (such as TTL, CMOS or PMOS/NMOS) and the higher current/voltage requirements of lamps, relays, printer hammers or other similar loads for a broad range of computer, industrial, and consumer applications. All devices feature open–collector outputs and free wheeling clamp diodes for transient suppression.

The ULN2803 is designed to be compatible with standard TTL families while the ULN2804 is optimized for 6 to 15 volt high level CMOS or PMOS

.i Will try to building some thing around this.

Is the Aout or out NG accept the 15 V?

 

i can manage an order of alu box like this max H 177 mm,we can custom the holes In Out Width as we want .

IMG_4826_zpsf9e062e9.jpg

somethink almost finished in this box ,my friend a midibox member can eventually manage the front panel or a ponoko panel?

IMG_4818_zpse8325479.jpg

Edited by boops

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Is the Aout or out NG accept the 15 V?

 

Yes, the allowed voltage range is +/- 18V

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Yes, the allowed voltage range is +/- 18V   Best Regards, Thorsten.
Great new,thanks

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I'd like to take a moment to clarify all the connections between the core and the peripherals.

 

Is this correct?

 

DIN/DOUT (buttons, LRE, Gate Outs)

 

- J8/J9 (MBHP_CORE_LPC17)

- J8/J9 (MBHP_CORE_STM32F4)

 

 

ANALOG INPUTS

- 2 inputes from J5B.A4 and J5B.A5 (MBHP_CORE_LPC17)

- 8 inputs from J5A and J5B (MBHP_CORE_STM32F4)

 

 

SCS buttons & encoder

- J10 (MBHP_CORE_LPC17)

- J10A (MBHP_CORE_STM32F4)

 

 

 

OLED

- J5A and J28 (MBHP_CORE_LPC17)

- J10B (MBHP_CORE_STM32F4) - http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_lcd_ssd1306_alt_port__stm32f4.pdf

 

LC Module CLCD/GLCD

- J15A (both LPC17 & STM32F4)

 

 

Analog-in AINSER

- J19 (both LPC17 & STM32F4)

(Not supported - slows down CPU too much)

 

 

Analog-out AOUT

- J19 (both LPC17 & STM32F4)

 

 

 

MBHP_CORE_STM32F4 peripherals:

 

MIDI IO MBHP_MIDI_IO

- J11e (MBHP_CORE_STM32F4)

 

 

Ethernet MBHP_ETH or equivalent

- J16e (MBHP_CORE_STM32F4)

 

 

MBHP_CORE_LPC17 peripherals:

 

SD Card

- J16 (MBHP_CORE_LPC17)

 

 

(edited connections for OLEDs and Analog Inputs)

Edited by sneakthief
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