the becoming of a midbox sid.

[Wisefire]

you are absolutely right kokoon.. my mistake.. made an error while encoding..

they are updated for full stereo goodness..

[Wisefire]

WOW, ive been mentioned in the MBSID walkthrough.. CEWL!  THNX for the great compliment TK!

ive been busy again.. as i now have sound, i have proof of concept.. so i soldered a plug to my 40x2 LCD.

this is what i saw.. IT WORKS.. well, i soldered it correctly.. but now i want some usefull info.. so i uploaded the CS .syx and then i saw this..

but still, it wasnt a lot of info.. so i descided to solder my banksticks..

its a bit big for just some chips, and it took me over an hour to get the connections right.. well it was 3am so i couldnt see straight..  it even formats them!!

that was all yesterday.. today ive built it all in a case.. doesnt work as of yet.. the 7805 gets very hot.. cuz of the voltage difference (im pumping 12V into it) however i dont want to use the c64 PSU.. it ugly probably more than 20 years old.. and it will mean that i have to find a nice looking plug to get both of the voltages in.. i dont want to use the 5 pins din plug.. as i can plug that into my midi.. dont wanna go and do that huh.. so i think.. a seperate system of multiple regulators that step down the voltages? i dont know.. any tips?

ofcourse the photos.. remember its TEMPORARY.. but it'll give me a nice testing ground for the CS part of the synth.. as i will eventually have to build it into a case anyway..

oh, and the wires from my lcd keep snapping.. im gonna put some dil headers on my lcd.. otherwise i might break it with to much soldering on it..

thats about it again..

[illogik]

hi, wisefire

i dont want to use the 5 pins din plug .. as i can plug that into my midi.. dont wanna go and do that huh..

there are a variety of different din plugs; ones that will never fit your midi din sockets no matter how hard you push ;); the advantage of these is that you can never insert them the wrong way, and i think theire quite ruggid too.

as of the ugly c64PSU; you could put it in another box (check conrad or reichelt); since IMHO they are good psu's (like you say 20 years old>still working)

cheers

and btw nice (+inspiring) building log

[Wisefire]

dont want to use a din plug at all..  there are a couple of other plugs i have in mind..

as for the c64 psu.. ok its sturdy.. but still.. wouldnt the PSU's be better nowadays? also.. when it breaks i have 1 backup.. but if i use a standard 12v ive got a shop full..

on the other hand.. the c64 psu will probably save me some work.. no wait .. the psu otptimized is work aswell.

its a dilemma

[thefRont]

on the other hand.. the c64 psu will probably save me some work.. no wait .. the psu otptimized is work aswell.

it's not really that much work and the schematics are really easy to understand. I've done it in no time ;)

Here are some impressions already posted in another thread:

[Wisefire]

well ok.. how about this then?

now to check if it actually works..

[SMIDIRIN]

Nice work Wisefire

small circuits that work are worth the fiddly effort for sure.

hope that works!

[Wisefire]

well i think it works.. im getting around 5v and around 13v

now for the building it into my temporary box..

[Wisefire]

well.. built it in.. and it works .. sort of.. as far as i can tell the noise is slightly more.. but its still very minute.. but i didnt put a cap on the end yet..

first some nice pics..

soldered pins to my lcd and i made the wire switch thing on the plug itself.. it works..

now for the problem..

im getting sound out of my master.. but my slave doesnt do jack.. its not the sid chip.. ive checked that.. its not the pic processor, ive exchanged it. it is powering up.. and sending sysex..(if i plug in the midi into the slave core) what am i doing wrong?

[TK.]

im getting sound out of my master.. but my slave doesnt do jack.. its not the sid chip.. ive checked that.. its not the pic processor, ive exchanged it. it is powering up.. and sending sysex..(if i plug in the midi into the slave core) what am i doing wrong?

You've to enable the MIDI merger - this is normaly done with the Link button.

So long it is not available, you could either enable the Merger via MIOS Studio (see Debug window), or you could recompile the code with CS_MENU_DEFAULT_LINK 1 (see main.asm)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Wisefire]

hey TK,

you are absolutely right.. thank you..

its in plain view on one of the pages.. and i didnt read it at first..

ive sent a sysex message via midi-ox to my box and now it works.. yay..

real stereo: one take, no FX..

http://student-kmt.hku.nl/~ijsbrand/midiboxsid/sounds/arpy.mp3

only some buttons and i call it finished for now.. i have to find a way to

get a cheap frontplate.. with lettering..

[Wisefire]

i was wondering.. is it ok for the switches to share a common ground on the DINx4.. instead of routing 4 different wires for it?

[raphael]

i was wondering.. is it ok for the switches to share a common ground on the DINx4.. instead of routing 4 different wires for it?

That's OK. In my MB64E all my 36 switches share one common ground (One wire routed from switch to switch). No problem.

Raphael

[Wisefire]

thnx..

well then its done for now.. it works.. and i really have to spend time on other things.. but my complete CS WILL be done sometime..

as for my conclusions on the midibox system as a whole.. its actually really nice.. but it has a learning curve.. luckily the documentation IS there..

still got one problem though.. my slave sid isnt loading the same patch as my master.. and it doesnt react to the filter settings i make in the menu..

how can i control 2 sids at the same time within the menu.. where is the option for that.. it does react to midinotes i play..

oh the obligatory photos..

its not great to look at.. remember its temporary.. but it works and thats all that matters right now..

[TK.]

how can i control 2 sids at the same time within the menu.. where is the option for that.. it does react to midinotes i play..

see the description of the SID buttons:

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_csB.html

"SID1-4: Use these buttons to select the SID(s). They behave like "radio buttons" if only one is pressed so that you can quickly change between the SID setups. It's also possible to select multiple SIDs by holding one of the SID buttons and pushing the additional SID buttons - in this case every parameter change will be sent not only to one, but to all selected SIDs."

Parameter change means in this case: not only the CC parameters, but also the patch once you change it.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Wisefire]

ofcourse TK, thanx.. but i knew that already.. i dont have that part of the control surface yet.. and im not planning on doing that soon.. as ive got other stuff to attend to..

is there a menu option.. instead of the radio buttons..

i was expecting that the 2 sids would behave the same once i got them both "linked"

[TK.]

No, link just means that the master will forward incoming MIDI events to the slaves.

All of these options makes sense in daily work with the SIDs, but it's not a good idea to hide them deep in the menues. Therefore I wrote an explicit hint about this requirement at the StepB page. Once you have the buttons available, you know what I mean :)

I strongly suggest to add these buttons - you still have some DIN pins free, which means, that there is no "resource problem" which prevents you from doing this.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Wisefire]

TK:

ok.. i can understand that you'd want them readily available.. but doubling this kind of setup stuff inside the menu is a good idea aswell imho.. allthough im hesitant to drag a synth in the discussion which you may not know or not like, ill do it anyway.. my korg ms2000 has a extensive menu structure.. all the stuff that is on the outside can be controlled through the menu aswell..

its not the resources.. well i would a dout in there aswell.. i do have all my PCBs done for a complete CS.. the whole problem is that i would have to put the time i dont have right now into jigsawing another couple of holes in there. and would have to mount the prints on my interface aswell.. this takes time.. which i dont have right now..

so it'll have to wait... maybe there is some sysex command i can use for those buttons instead? that way i atleast can test the stereo factor of my 2 sids..

the others:

on another note.. im having trouble with my encoder, i bought it from smashtv.. it has a switch in it aswell.. it behaving irraticly.. i just have to touch the knob.. and it goes changing patches on me.. very irritating.. i have yet to test the voti encoders.. but they feel sturdier.  this one i have now wiggles.. :S

[TK.]

my korg ms2000 has a extensive menu structure.. all the stuff that is on the outside can be controlled through the menu aswell..

to make it clear: all external functions of the MIDIbox SID can be controlled in the menu too, just only for the SID, Link, CC and Edit button I decided to do it not, since the handling would be so circuitous, that it wouldn't make fun anyhow.

This was my decition during the design phase, and it's some effort to overwork parts of the CS handler in order to allow alternative controling methods of these functions. In MBFM I did this (there is a special page which pops up when the CFG button is pressed - it allows you to control 8 special options), but I don't really want to do this again for the SID for various reasons.

In other words: for you it's just for temporal comfort, for me it means: overworking and testing code, releasing it, support it in the future (before each release I have to try, if this feature still works), and answering additional questions about such "bad documented features" in the forum over the next years.

Just to give you an impression, why I always try to reduce complexity.

Believe me, it costs less time if you would just drill the holes!

so it'll have to wait... maybe there is some sysex command i can use for those buttons instead? that way i atleast can test the stereo factor of my 2 sids..

in the debug window of MIOS Studio, you are able to write directly into the memory of the core with the "SRAM Write" command. The "CS_MENU_SELECTED_SID_FLAGS" variable is located to 0x46 (please doublecheck this address in app_defines.h)

• write 1 to this address: SID 1 is selected
  
• write 2 to this address: SID 2 is selected
  
• write 3 to this address: SID 1 and 2 are selected
  

on another note.. im having trouble with my encoder, i bought it from smashtv.. it has a switch in it aswell.. it behaving irraticly.. i just have to touch the knob.. and it goes changing patches on me.. very irritating.. i have yet to test the voti encoders.. but they feel sturdier.  this one i have now wiggles.. :S

Not sure which are the optimum settings for this encoder, you could try a different encoder type (see mios_tables.inc) or you could try different settings for CS_MENU_USE_DETENTED_ENCODER and CS_MENU_ENC_SPEED_VALUE (see main.asm)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[drin]

on another note.. im having trouble with my encoder, i bought it from smashtv.. it has a switch in it aswell.. it behaving irraticly.. i just have to touch the knob.. and it goes changing patches on me.. very irritating.. i have yet to test the voti encoders.. but they feel sturdier.  this one i have now wiggles.. :S

I have the same encoder from SmashTV. I did twwo things to change it and am much happier with it.

1. I removed the detent. Bend the pins out on the sides, remove the case and lift the internal mechanism. You'll find the 'click' mechanism inside and can easily lessen or even eliminate it.

2. Change the encoder speed in your code.

Those two changes made a WORLD of difference in my encoder.

Did you manage to test the sliders to see if they're linear or not?

Thanks!

-drin

[Wisefire]

TK:

thnx now i understand..  its a sh*tload of work.. and its not used often..

and i agree with you, it should always be fun for you.. else mios midibox and ucapps will be dead in a mather of months..

also we arent your "customers"

i just didnt know that it was that hard to get it into the menu structure..

oh and btw.. its not drilling i have to jig saw it out.. the buttons are square :P

im looking forward to building the MBFM.. sounds like a bit more complexity (i do like complexity.. it gives me the oppertunity

to have a synth for 6 months and still discover new things.. but it should never compromize intuitiveness..)

as for the link button.. there is a sysex code i can type into midi-ox and link is enabled.. this worked good enough for me..

sysex code:F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0D 01 00 58 28 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 F7

drin:

1. i would want it the other way.. my detents feel way to weak.. when i find the time.. ill open it..

2. encoder speed.. yeah.. i was thinking of that aswell..

which sliders are you talking about?

[drin]

which sliders are you talking about?

Oops. Sorry Wisefire, I have the flu and I managed to mix up two posts in the middle of my delirium...

-drin

[Wisefire]

no prob..

[Wisefire]

well.. i temporarily used one of my 10 buttons on my box.. and tried the link function.. when engaged it manages to shut one of my sids up.. and only speaks through one output.. no trace of the second sid.. but when i press both sid buttons (sacrificed another 2 of my selectionbuttons) it does work..

what trickery is this??

[TK.]

Thats the normal behaviour - the Link button is also some kind of  "panic button" for the case that there is a hanging MIDI note - this can happen if you play a note, don't release the keyboard and disable the Link... very annoying, therefore this feature :)

Best Regards, Thorsten.