Re: MIDIbox CV V1.1 and MBHP_AOUT_LC

[logo64]

Looks fantastic - will have to try it out.  Thanks for supporting for the old AOUT board.  Love the idea of the low cost AOUT... I may have to build one just to try it out, even though I have the "high-cost" version already.

Since my dream of modifying the source code in C died due to my sticking with the out-dated Windows Me, I'd like to add these feature requests to this program.

1.  LFO's to modulate the AOUTS

2.  6 analog inputs (not from the AIN board, but just the 6 inputs from the core) that map/mix to AOUTS

3.  A "sophisticated" note quantizer.  Reads AIN, and quantizes it to various scales / keys.  The result is sent to an AOUT.

4.  A matrix mixer - mix AIN's and LFO's to AOUTS

5.  An arpeggiator

Most of these features have been written for SID 1.7a... maybe it'd be easy to add them to CV 1.1?  If I ever upgrade to Xp (or it may be Longhorn before I get around to it), I'll give it a try.

-just dreaming... these features would make this CV controller more sophisticated than any available on the market! 

-gerald

[TK.]

Is anybody else interested in such features?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[raphael]

1.  LFO's to modulate the AOUTS

2.  6 analog inputs (not from the AIN board, but just the 6 inputs from the core) that map/mix to AOUTS

3.  A "sophisticated" note quantizer.  Reads AIN, and quantizes it to various scales / keys.  The result is sent to an AOUT.

4.  A matrix mixer - mix AIN's and LFO's to AOUTS

5.  An arpeggiator

These features would be great for all modular analog synth users. Unfortunately mine is still in the planning stage ;)

Raphael

[Twin-X]

Yes this would be great for my Modular that is in planning stage too. Got a full board set of oakley modular 2 vco etc.

[moebius]

Is anybody else interested in such features?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Yes please!

(I think I requested midiclock syncronized LFOs/ software envelopes in a PM many moons ago...  ::))

A little technical background for persuasion (like TK didn't know):

MBCV has an ultra tight internal timing as we know - but MIDI is not getting any faster. By moving tasks to the internal MBCV engine even with some added latency/jitter and minimizing midi bandwidth usage will still give better results than streaming CCs along with note data. Right?

Moebius

(p.s. I bet some of the charm in pre-MIDI rhythm driven electronic music lies in the clock tight sequencing.. Kraftwerk, Vince Clarke..)

[illogik]

more then interested! ;D

got a bunch of analog hardware that love these kind of ideas.. if you need people to test, i'm up for it

[TK.]

Ok, I see ;-)

So, anything missing in the list?

 
• 2 LFOs with Sine/Triangle/Ramp/Pulse/Feedbacked waveform, rate (0.001..50Hz), selectable phase (0..180°), selectable amplitude, optional MIDI clock sync
   
• 2 EGs with selectable general amplitude and ADDSR curve and optional loop point between AD, ADD or ADDS, optional MIDI clock sync
   
• modulation matrix with four busses
      Sources: LFO1/LFO2/EG1/EG2/Velocity/ModWheel/4 analog inputs
      Targets: 8*AOUT, LFO1/LFO2 feedbacked waveform, LFO1/LFO2 frequency, LFO1/LFO2 phase, EG1/2 decay1, EG1/2 decay 2, LFO1/2/EG1/2 amplitude
      Makes 4*22 = 88 depth parameters
   
• trigger matrix:
    Sources: 8 MIDI inputs, LFO1/LFO2 period, 8 digital inputs, MIDI clock, MIDI start
    Targets: 8 digital outputs, LFO1/LFO2/EG1/EG2 restart
   
• arpeggiator with selectable octave range (1..3), up/down/updown/random mode, selectable speed and gatelength
   
• AIN->AOUT note quantizer with configurable scales, base note and scale can be selected with an external keyboard (just made some experiments with this last weekend)
   
• optional interpolation of output curve
  

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[logo64]

So, anything missing in the list?

Nothing that I can see.... this list makes me drool!

-gerald

[Synthhead]

Nice one TK. Christmas has come early again.......

So, anything missing in the list?

*

I may be day-dreaming here, but SHX8 support would be mind-blowingly cool......... :D

Dave

[TK.]

I may be day-dreaming here, but SHX8 support would be mind-blowingly cool........

This would be very difficult to handle - either SHX8, or software implemented modulation sources...

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[raphael]

This would be very difficult to handle - either SHX8, or software implemented modulation sources...

I`d prefer sw modulation. 8 outputs will be enough for almost all applications.

Raphael

[Synthhead]

I was thinking more of parameter controls for a modular synth, or moderately complex fixed architecture synth, where there's already many voltage controllable parameters (cutoff, Res, vco1 mod depth, velocity to filter depth,vco 2 mod depth , etc.... Still, there's always the regular AOUT and midibox 64.

Maybe if we're really lucky, maxim will sell off cheap all their remaining stock of 525s to meet rohs regulations. Now that would be a thing...... :)

Dave

[moebius]

Still, there's always the regular AOUT and midibox 64.

And if you cared to read MB64 ChangeLog and main.asm you might even add SHX8 to the list and switch the magic "#define DEFAULT_ENABLE_AMUX 0" to some other number than 0?

Moebius

[sneakthief]

I think that list is fantastic! The quantizer alone would be worth its weight in gold ;)

I just built a Midibox CV in November (with the original AOUT) and am driving this simple Blacet setup: http://sneak-thief.com/blacet

Question: when controlling an AOUT via a midi CC, is there any way for the midibox CV to smoothly interpolate between the steps in order to avoid stepping, aka zipper noise?

Or should I just use a few lag processor (aka glide/portamento) modules to do this for me?

Thanks,

michel

[TK.]

Hi Michel,

interpolation: this shouldn't be a big problem, I already added this to the filter output of MIDIbox SID, the code works with pointers, is very fast and therefore reusable for multiple channels. I'm not sure about the memory consumption for all these features (haven't spent much thoughts on this yet), but on the other hand: if this should be a problem, it's maybe worth to switch to the PIC18F4620 (the one with the EUSART bug), because the MIDI Output won't be used very often anyhow, so that sporatic failures are ignorable. This chip has the advantage, that I wouldn't need to spend 75% of the time to optimize data structures and code, so that they fit into memory. Instead I could concentrate on the real work (this is no final statement, first I will try to bring this into the PIC18F452)

I will start with the first experiments once I got the rsf Kobol Expander from a friend - this thingy definitely needs some additional modulation sources :)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[machinate]

Ok, I see ;-)

So, anything missing in the list?

• 
   
• 2 LFOs with Sine/Triangle/Ramp/Pulse/Feedbacked waveform, rate (0.001..50Hz), selectable phase (0..180°), selectable amplitude...
  

perhaps midi clock sync? I'd love that.

[sneakthief]

Thorsten - Das würde richtig geil sein! Interpolation would make a huge difference in terms of practical useage when controlling CC in realtime.

Can't remember: is the PIC18F4620 pin compatible with the current core?

And I second the idea for midi-sync'd lfo's :)

Sorry for all the feature-creep ...it's hard not to think of the possibilities *lol*

Not to mention, the Midibox CV is such an invaluable tool what with all the new modulars that have appeared during the past few years. Looking at the new modular offerings from Blacet, Cwejman, MOTM, Modcan, Plan B, A.Sys, Curetronic, Metalbox, etc., it's like we're in the middle of a synthesizer rennaissance of sorts.

Cheers,

michel

[TK.]

I've added the MIDI clock sync feature for LFO and EG (I forgot to mention this... it will be the same code like for MBSID/MBFM)

Yes, the PIC18F4620 is pin compatible, it's a really nice replacement for the PIC18F452 if the EUSART would work properly.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Synthhead]

And I second the idea for midi-sync'd lfo's

Me too! - pretty essential for almost all rhythmic synth stuff....

it's like we're in the middle of a synthesizer rennaissance of sorts.

It's a really good time to be building synths..... Am slowly getting together a big standalone synth, and it'll have a midibox heart for control....

Thanks TK - for what I've got in  mind, the midibox can actually make it happen!

Dave (v. happy analogue synth planner  :-)

[logo64]

Thought this video was of interest to this thread.  Robert Rich (big name in synthetic music to say the least) is demo-ing new modules (frac format!) by Synthesis Technology

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2645

About half-way through, he starts playing with a new midi-CV converter, and goes nuts about its arpeggiation and micro-tuning capability.  Basically, watching this video shows the

kind of response the midibox CV could/will get from the modular synth / DIY community.

I love the idea of just switching applications on my Frac-SID to the CV program when I'm not in the mood to use the SID's oscillators, and filter.  Makes a wonderfully versatile module

that much more versatile!

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=4963.0

[moebius]

From SonicState:

...and Synthesis Technology advocate Robert Rich on the new Frac sized modules and Arpeggiator MIDI/ CV Unit.

Basically, watching this video shows the

kind of response the midibox CV could/will get from the modular synth / DIY community.

Stop being naive and start googlin' - Midibox CV is just as fascinating for modular synth community as any DIY midi-cv converter. It's not THAT novel. Some people are willing to invest their time and money. But maybe they rather build Marc Bareille's MCV32 or Seb Francis's Fat Controller?

Moebius

[sneakthief]

Stop being naive and start googlin' - Midibox CV is just as fascinating for modular synth community as any DIY midi-cv converter. It's not THAT novel. Some people are willing to invest their time and money. But maybe they rather build Marc Bareille's MCV32 or Seb Francis's Fat Controller?

Actually, I beg to differ - the proposed features of the Midibox CV go way beyond the MCV32 ( http://m.bareille.free.fr/mcv32/mcv32.html ).

Although the new Midibox CV OS would make it similar to the Fat Controller ( http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/index.php?page=fatcontroller ), Seb isn't currently selling any PCB's (which are 40GPB!!!). Not to mention, the overall price of the Midibox CV is much cheaper.

Also, neither of them have arpeggiators  8)

The PSIM ( http://www.synthmodules.com/psim-1.htm ) is much more powerful in terms of programmability, but alas it's sold out and many times more expensive.

So I say "go Thorsten!"

Mit freundlichen Grüssen,

michel in berlin

[moebius]

You too - Stop being naive!

I was actually trying to POINT out there are competitors - which are making just as much "BUZZ" in the modular synth world and the most modular synthesists in need are anyway going to pick up that $499 Synthtech module.

I'm a true believer, Yeah! But this Cult of Midibox is getting a bit worrying aspects. Some day You'll end up burning Behringers! ;D

Actually, I beg to differ - the proposed features of the Midibox CV go way beyond the MCV32 ( http://m.bareille.free.fr/mcv32/mcv32.html ).

Sorta, sorta.. but remember we gave up more outputs/S&H for internal processing.

Although the new Midibox CV OS would make it similar to the Fat Controller ( http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/index.php?page=fatcontroller ), Seb isn't currently selling any PCB's (which are 40GPB!!!). Not to mention, the overall price of the Midibox CV is much cheaper.

Have you taken in the account a possible need for high quality DACs? Add 2 MAX525 to the price and the situation looks complitely different? AOUT_LC is only 8+8 or 12+4 bits. Seb uses 14bit DAC.

Also, neither of them have arpeggiators  8)

That's true, but neither has MB_CV at this point. But both have a form factor that pleases modular synth builders. I'd love to see You fitting Core, DINX1, LCD, 4xAOUT_LC modules in FraqRack :-*

Being over enthusiastic and not knowing your NON-markets isn't a good thing.

/rant mode off

Live in peace, folks ;)

Moebius

p.s. TK - You know I'm as enthusiastic as ever. Keep up the good work!!!

[sneakthief]

You too - Stop being naive!

Wow, you're pretty cranky. Um, what exactly am I being naive about?

I just wanted to point out that the price/performance ratio for the Midibox CV is arguably better. Having built a Midibox CV (with Max525's) and comparing both the prices and the system flexibility, I still think it's a better deal for DIY folks.

Let me flesh out my argument:

Re. MCV32 - yeah, 32 outputs at 8-bits or 16 at 10-bits... first of all, for the majority of modular users, I truly believe 32 CV outs is overkill - especially when limited to 8-bit control. 8-bit sucks for any delicate modulation destinations, ie. filters, vca's, etc. Plus it looks like you have to etch your own PCB, nor is the firmware even available. Et je vois aucun endroit pour l'acheter non plus.

Re. Fat Controller DAC's - if you check the parts list, you'll see he's using a MAX544, MAX306, MAX6225 & 4x MXL1014's. Altogether these cost roughly the same as a couple of MAX525's. And as I said before, all the PCB's are currently sold out

Furthermore, you can successfully stack a DIN, A_OUT & CORE with spacers on the back of a frac panel the same size as the Fat Controller. The maximum 6" depth on the frac standard is actually a lot of space if you interested in stacking boards.

Being over enthusiastic and not knowing your NON-markets isn't a good thing.

Whatever... ::)  Last I checked, this site was a "market" of ideas, and not commercial products. As such, isn't a little hypcritical to carry such an arrogant aire in a place that's built from enthousiasm for new ideas & concepts? The uCapps community is proof of the "NON-market" that you speak of *sigh* ...and you can actually easily get a Midibox CV right now unlike the options that you mentioned.

Besides, the backhanded "cult of Midibox" comment that you speak of is what keeps the platform developing.

Why do you even bother posting if you're just going to insult people who are interested?

Cheers,

michel

[DrBunsen]

Coming in late, but anyway, these features would make my System 100 sing again!