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My new favorite word: Lazertran


Altitude

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I GIVE UP ON LAZERTRAN!

After some small successfull tests with steelplates in the oven, which turned out quite nice I finally tried the backpanel of my midibox. It is quite big and barely fits in the oven. It turned out that it is almost impossible to get an even temparature (i am measuring with an IR-Thermometer all the time). I spend very much time getting the decal on the metal without any bubbles. First it looked really nice but then during the heat-up bubbles started to appear everywhere. This is normally a sign of heating up too fast. In fact this is due to the different temparatures in the different regions of the oven. I think there are better ovens but i didnt find one where the panel fits in.

I was finally able to wash off the lazertran with a thinner.

Now I am really clueless how to get artwork onto my panel.

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FxxK! What a pro look. I`m totally down how that orange knob`s pointers are well paired to the the orange labels. :o So good. And the rack colour... It isn`t white? Looks just as 909 casing colour. Where did you get those knobs?

Much respect!!!

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FxxK! What a pro look. I`m totally down how that orange knob`s pointers are well paired to the the orange labels. :o So good. And the rack colour... It isn`t white? Looks just as 909 casing colour. Where did you get those knobs?

Much respect!!!

The color is called "Fossil" and was pretty much exactly what I was looking for since I was going for a 909ish tan color.  The knobs are cheapo black plastic with white pointer from mouser (they had 2 sizes, hence the big volume knob) and then hand painted using a flat Tamiya model spray paint for the base (works really well on plastic) and the stripe with a brush, finishing with a flat clear to protect them.

@ Altitude: What is your work flow?

Like I said, I used the non-heat inkjet kind.  I had the graphics laser printed at Kinko's which worked out very well since I could get 3 labels on a 11"x17" sheet of lasertran and the quality and color accuracy was wonderful.  Through tons of trial and error (and I mean I had to strip and repaint the front panel 4 times to get it right) here is my process:

1. The case I used was a bare aluminum and I had the machining done by front panel express.  It came to only $72 which included machining of the front, back, and the extra plate which allows for the pots to be recessed.  Its a good idea to send them your own material since it saves you about 15$ per panel.  I sanded out the rough finish of the panels with scotchbrite till they were fairly smooth

2. The primer I used was an "etching" automotive primer and I laid down several coats (it is very thin) sanding between coats, making sure I had VERY good coverage and let it dry for several hours in the sun. Spray painting was the same, with more coats and lots of wet sanding at the end.  It has to be PERFECTLY smooth for the label to sit right, when the lasertran is wet it is delicate and any surface crud will cause a hole.

3. Getting the label right was a pain in the ass but once I had all the kinks worked out it went pretty easily.  The clear coat is key.  I used a hobby clear coat made by Krylon, anything should work providing it contains a strong solvent.  This will dissolve the label a little and make it clear (it is normally white when dry).  Here are the steps:

      A: I cut the label a little taller than the panel so it hangs over a bit, but not all the way around the top. 

          You can trim the excess off for a very fine top and bottom fit when your done with a razor

      B: Immerse the label in a water bath until it uncurls and the label slides off like a decal, but dont slide it off 

          backing

      C: Slide the decal onto the panel just like your would a model decal GENTLY, it can rip if your too rough

          with it.  Also make SURE there is nothing between the label and the panel (dust etc).  The label is easy

          to move around when completely wet and only sticks with moderate strength when it drys so this is the

          time to make sure it is aligned with holes and lays even (measure it).  Carefully blot the water

          out with a lint free wipe and make sure there are no wrinkles.  You don't have to get it all and I

          recommend doing this (or touching the label in general) as little as possible.

      D: let it dry COMPLETELY.  I mean hours, this is where i botched my first panel. If there is any moisture in

          label, it will wrinkle badly when you hit it with the clear.  I also recommend that everything you do be

          done indoors out of the sun (more on that later). 

      E: The clear coat.  This caused me the most grief and these steps are critical for a good result.  First off,

          know how the clear coat will react to the paint you used.  It should be applied in lite coats onto the

          label and exposed paint surfaces.  I killed my first panel by spraying to much and it blistered up the

          paint on the rack ears requiring me to start from scratch.  I actually decided to spray 

          the exposed paint surfaces with a clear acrylic as added protection by masking the label with a

          sheet of paper all the way to its edge and then spraying the expose paint.  This also had the added

          benefit of building up some clear so the labels edges were considerably harder to see.  The clear coats

          should make the label clear again (it goes clear when wet with water also) and I applied it in coats

          which left no white areas. I used several coats. DRY THE CLEAR INDOORS!! Doing this outside in the

          sun will expand the panel below and crack the label. (another botched panel).  I let everything dry

          overnight and the following day, more wet sanding to get a perfectly smooth finish. The cutting out of

          holes and trimming the label flush was done last with a final light coat of clear.

whew. I hope I covered everything

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Altitude, thank you for your answers. When I read this post, I still dont feel confident enough to try lasertran myself. The result is really good, but hole process is very delicate and maybe not worth a bargain for some of us. I dont know how much you payed in total for all needed, but some 2 PVC colour screen print maybe could be done for not too much more money. I worked in screen printing industry, and maybe that is the reason it sounds to me as much easier and simpler method than lasertran.

PS. Am I blind or you cannot see the pictures of articles in mouser? Did you bought your knobs online?

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Altitude, thank you for your answers. When I read this post, I still dont feel confident enough to try lasertran myself. The result is really good, but hole process is very delicate and maybe not worth a bargain for some of us. I dont know how much you payed in total for all needed, but some 2 PVC colour screen print maybe could be done for not too much more money. I worked in screen printing industry, and maybe that is the reason it sounds to me as much easier and simpler method than lasertran.

PS. Am I blind or you cannot see the pictures of articles in mouser? Did you bought your knobs online?

Well, the total cost to do the label was $3 for printing, the paper was $3 a sheet, $10 for the spray paint and $5 for sanding supplies so that comes to $21. I dont think you can do a 3 color silk screen and paint for that much.

I didnt post a link to the mouser part since their site was down earlier.  here is the data sheet:

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/EPD-200221.pdf

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Thanks for the link. But I would never browse their site without pictures, and I would never buy this knob looking at the PDF if I didnt see how it looks on your 9090. What disaster is to have such a big store without pix.. I really dont understand them.  ??? Not all potential buyers have their catalog in front of them.

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mouser is wonderful for many reasons, but good physical descriptions of knobs is not one of them.  What I did to select these was to buy 2 of each knob they sell that looked like good candidates. You could probably look up the model of the knob elsewhere also.

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I have similar results with Lasertran on my 9090 as well.  Turned out amazing, but I nicked the word power while it was in a delicate state -> before clear coating.

http://www.potm.org/Kurt%20Arnlund/9090.html

P7130099.jpg

P7150102.jpg

I used a hot air gun (purchased to heat shrink tubing), to really soak the toner into the paper before applying it to the metal.  This REALLY glossed up the color.

Kurt

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ok guys! you persuaded me to try again ;)

I also have some of this inkjet lazertran laying around from my first tests (which turned out bad). I tried inkjet lazertran last year on a test sheet of the steel my panels are made from. It turned out that it doesnt stick at all (i allready reported that). now I took another testsheet and put a metalprimer on it. i tried both types of lazertran on it again (the old lazertran with the gum on the panel not the face down method). Both were sticking quite well to the primer. Problem is, that the primer can also be scratched off quite easily, stainless steel has the bad property of beeing stainless. Originally I wanted the panel to have black artwork on the shiny metal. Now it seems like I have to destroy the surface, maybe I should also try with scotch-brite. I also sprayed three layers of clearcoat (on polyurethane base) on top but the new lazertran didnt turn transparent at all (something that i allready experienced the last time). How many layers would i need from your experience?

Another question: I was also looking for an etchant primer, but i couldnt find one. even on the internet (except for boats). anybody knows where to get it in germany?

Something else for the 9090ers. how and when did you get the holes into the artwork? with a drill or knife? before or after putting the clearcoat on?

@twin-x: for the old lazertran, do you think i can get an even teparature on a 70x30cm panel up to 200°C for that long with a heat gun? i guess the thing would just blow up after a while.

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1) I used a high resolution color laser printer (Konica 2550)

2) I used a heat gun that was sold in the electronics section specifically to shrink heat tubing.  It gets hot enough to burn you, but not so hot that it will strip paint.  The air from it often brushed my fingers enough to go OW! and pull my hand away, but it wasn't quick enough burn.

3) From the moment the label was printed, I handled the paper and the panel wearing latex gloves.

4) Before I drilled any holes, in fact before touching either the transfer or the metal with my bare hands to avoid oil transfers, I sprayed the panel slowly with light coats several time until it built up a thick gloss.  I use clear acrylic Krylon as per the lasertrans instructions.  Then I let it sit for 24hrs before I drilled it, and I think I could have let it sit longer to really harden up.  I thought for sure that something bad might happen to the decal once it was drilled, but the acrylic really added a strong hard coat above the decal and the holes cut as clean as metal.

I intend to write up a really detailed webpage on my usage of lasertrans ... I'm a huge fan of the stuff now.  I was hoping to do this as I printed the transfers for the back panel, but I've been lazy now that my 9090 is all together and working.

(I updated this post because I realized it read funky)

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@twin-x: for the old lazertran, do you think i can get an even teparature on a 70x30cm panel up to 200°C for that long with a heat gun? i guess the thing would just blow up after a while.

Heat guns are made for scraping off paint at 400 -600 degrees. They last for a serious long time. Mind your electric bill tough ;)

But yes you can use let it on for a long time. You are incontrol of the gun by waving it across your panel keep distance for temprature control. Go closer to add more heat. You are in control with this method not the heat gun.

The more expensive types of heat gun do have temprature settings. But in my opinion it is not woth it.

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Something else for the 9090ers. how and when did you get the holes into the artwork? with a drill or knife? before or after putting the clearcoat on?

I drilled first, then painted, then labeled, the clearcoated, an did the cutting of the lasertran holes last with and exacto knife.  With the clear on, it is more rigid and easier to cut. In its raw state it is easy to tear and the edges are not protected from sanding.  Bear in mind that I used the inkjet no heat type though so it may be different for the other stuff.

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ok, more trials more hassle :/I

I got me a heat gun and tried it (old lazertran). it goes quite well if you are patient. the toner fuses to the steelplate really well, but not the transparent part of the decal. these part peel of easily. if you could peel off everything but the toner it would turn out really well. but if you have artwork and fonts you cant really peel off all the small parts with your fingers without damaging the toner. On the lazertran site i read that you could dissolve the decal (for example if you want it as an etchresist). But with dissolver my toner also washes off (like they wrote would happen with some modern toner). For those modern toners they now recomend 2-Propanol. I tried that aswell and it kind off dissolves the decal a little but you cant really wipe it off, it gets sticky and looks very ugly. Maybe you would need gallons of 2-propanol to get it all off. you still need to use some force with your fingers to pill off the rest which might also affect the toner.

But: In case that you get it all off you'd need to spray it with some varnish for protection. then the problem would just come back as the varnish would stick to the toner but not to the steelplate.

clueless...

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I didn't dissolve away the clear part of the label on mine at all.  The only parts that were really clear on mine are the inside of the big letters and inside of the pot holes.  Once you clear coat the whole label, you wont even know if there were clear parts remaining or not.. they just dissapear.

Is there some reason you have to dissolve the clear part of the label?

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i have to remove them because they peel off otherwise. let me explain in more detail:

My frontpanel is made from stainless steel, so very few things really stick to it (unless i

would etch the surface or destroy the surface somehow with abrasive agents which i'd like to avoid).

Now lazertran comes into play...

the new inkjet lazertran doesnt stick to the panel unless you use a primer (which doesnt really stick

either but it is better than nothing, you have to use your fingernails to get if off). If I decide to give this

option a go I would have to use an etch-primer first i guess.

the old lazertran doesnt stick face up so i have too use the face-down/oven method. when i do this

only the toner really fuses to the panel. all the surounding parts of the decal do not, i can peel them

off using the fingers with little force. if you peel it of mechanically until you reach tonered areas, the edges of

the black areas look really messy. that is why i think I have to remove the whole transparent decal parts, leaving

nothing but the fused toner on the panel. After that I couldnt use clear coat, as this would also stick to the toner areas only.

I would eventually try to apply something like these nanocoat sealers which can be rubbed on steelsurfaces to make it a little more resistant.

Edit: After some new trials today i think i give up on the toner method. i only tried a very small part of black area with white letters in it and i really made sure there was no air left beneath the decal. then i heated it up with the heatgun very very slowly, always measuring with the infrared thermometer. all of a sudden bubbles started to appear at around 150C, and it was not just like two or three that you could cover with a permanent pen. That is the fourth test with bubbles phenomenon. I think i would never get a decent artwork on a panel that big.

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