DIY illuminated butons: the next level :)

[moxi]

Hi,

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

now are coming the first clear rubber buton!!!!

it's a macro photographie, so all defaults look bigger than they are in reality...it's my first test, now the material just need to be a bit colored...

but that's a good start!!!!

the material used is called "fimo liquid", the mold are done with a special silicone that support high temperature (the material need to go to an oven)...all this material are a bit expensive, so i will only do other test if people are interested by such parts..

i've to do some more calculation for the price but i think i can keep my money back selling the caps for 0.5 Euros/part...it's a bit expensive but i've to pay the "research and dev" section of my multinational  company! ;)

[stryd_one]

NICE!  :D

You're a crafty one, mox'!

[goule]

Very nice indeed !  ;D

Keep up the good work  ;)

[moxi]

... now i will try to make some blue ones ;) ....the result tonight or tomorrow...

[docbrown]

Moxi,

That will be good for MPC style pads..

[moxi]

That will be good for MPC style pads..

hum...finaly, this product appear to be less soft two hours after getting it out from the oven, i will try to warm it less than this first time...it's still soft , but not enough in my opinion for doing mpc style pads..using directly the RTV silicone will be better for this purpose (i've already do test that lead to great result, the only thing that stop me is that i can't find appr. mold - if someone own some square plastic box that can be used for that...).

the advantage of this product is that you can do transparent soft button, to be used with a backlight LED...

[docbrown]

the advantage of this product is that you can do transparent soft button, to be used with a backlight LED...

yeah, like this padKontrol by Korg.

[moxi]

hi,

:( finaly, my little cap is really harder than expected (i've let it dry one more day and it become harder, so now you really have to push on it hardly to see that is "rubber", so in fact only the "touch" is slightly different from the resin caps :(

it's not enough "rubber" in my opinion... as i've paid 8 Euros for 50ml of this material, i won't be abble to do a lot of other test...grrrr...i will look for a more appropriate material (for the while ,i've found a that a clear silicone exist, but it's impossible to mold it in my silicone mold (fusion)...

...still on the fight ;)

btw: i've tested a mpc style pad done with my standart silicone with some tact switch, but the result is not good (you "feel" the tact switch through the pad).

so i've un-mounted my MV8000 drum machine to see how are done the pad: it's done with a conductive "serigraphy" engraved on a pcb and the back side of the pad hold a part of conductive material...i don't know if it's easy to do such a thing...

[ilmenator]

Hi moxi,

you could glue a metal plate underneath the silicone pad, this way the tact switch cannot be felt through the pad any more.

Best regards, ilmenator

[moxi]

in fact the problem is that you feel the "click" of the tact switch too...

it's a way the pads are done on MPC and others:

finding a conductive material to put back side the pad won't be a problem i suppose, and maybe the pcb can be done with standart method ?

[moxi]

new experimentations:

i've tested to warm the "fimo liquid" only 10 minutes, then only 5 minutes (instead of 20 minutes): same result, this product is too hard in all case :(

then i've tested with colored material:

i don't find the result really beautiful...

then i've tested to backlight it, and here too the result is bad, the light don't go trough the material when it's colored, and when using a clear cap, you can see the source of the light...

so: it's finaly not the appr. material to do rubber caps....

sorry for this useless topic!

[MEEF]

thats a shame, was looking promising.

[stryd_one]

Just one step closer to your target Moxi :)

Thanks for your efforts!

[Jaicen]

I wouldn't give up just yet, i'm sure there's an application for something like this. Maybe you need to have the silicon be less transparent, maybe by mixing some fine powder. That way it will diffuse the light. How about adding glitter for a glam effect?

I was actually thinking about this, if you wanted to make small buttons, I imagine that you could use silicon sealant for bathrooms etc. It's not all that durable, but it's nicely translucent for illuminating. The trick would be releasing it from the moulds.

[moxi]

I imagine that you could use silicon sealant for bathrooms etc. It's not all that durable, but it's nicely translucent for illuminating

good idea! i will try this as soon as possible...maybe the two siliconne won't get fusioned...

[DavidBanner]

have you thought about trying:  polycaprolactone aka: Polymorph, Friendly Plastic, CAPA, TONE, Shapelock?

for more info checkout:

http://reprapdoc.voodoo.co.nz/bin/view/Main/Version2OfThePolymorphExtrusionHead#MaterialPreparation

scroll down a little way and you'll see instructions on how to use it.

[Screaming_Rabbit]

in fact the problem is that you feel the "click" of the tact switch too...

it's a way the pads are done on MPC and others:

finding a conductive material to put back side the pad won't be a problem i suppose, and maybe the pcb can be done with standart method ?

... mostly used is a graphite as the conductive material on the bottom of the buttons.

Graphite powder (about 20%) is also mixed into thermoplasts, to make make it conductive (ever wondered how plastic encoder knobs of digital mixers can be touch sesitive?  ;) )

You could try to mix about 80% graphite powder with 20% of some silicone glue and smear it over the bottom of your buttons, to make it conductive.

The big challenge will be the construction shape to receive a nice tactile feel. You have to design some kind of silicone dome which snaps when you push the button.

Greets, Roger

[docbrown]

sorry for this useless topic!

Moxi,

What you are doing is "not" useless. All of your effort is a gained experience whether good or bad. Like always thanks for sharing those information.

:)

[sidetrack]

definitely not a waste, at the very least it is interesting. 

keep up the good work.

[Jaicen]

Exactly, if all it costs is time then definitely keep going (if you can spare it of course!). I'm certainly interested. I'm pretty sure that silicon sealant will adhere to your silicon moulds i'm afraid, unless you have some sort of release agent.

I was thinking of how i'd mould the buttons for my menu using some silicon.

I could get a smallish piece of steel or alu, around 1/4" deep and thick into which I'd drill a series of holes around 7mm deep and 7mm across. I'd then spray the steel with something like WD-40 or wipe it with some light grease, and then fill the holes with silicon and also cover the top to give some purchase for pulling them out when set.

I'm hoping that the result would be similar to a membrane keyboard, with the individual buttons attached to a common flat base. They can either be used like that or cut off.

Does that sound feasible in your opinion?

[haris]

Any news on this? I am looking for mini rubber led switches.

[nebula]

I wish Moxi's pictures were still available.

Today, with my MB-6582 at 99.5 % complete (I just need to replace the ribbon cables with shorter ones so the case will close), I started looking into my MB-SEQ.  I had some pretty grandiose plans for it but I had a revelation at my work, where we periodically use silicone caulking:

Why not make a mold for a button membrane that I can fill up with silicone?  I could put tact switches underneath with light force actuators, along with LEDs!

So I have some ideas for the mold and for the swtiches.  The important thing seems to be the material, and the curing method (heat).  The "release agent" discussed by Jaicen could be something like WD-40, although until now I've been thinking of cooking spray ("Pam"), or perhaps baby oil.

There is an excellent silicone caulking called "GE Silicone II" which is available at least in black, white and clear.  I was thinking of using the clear stuff with a little white mixed in.  I was playing with a little hardened piece of it today.  It has slightly more elasticity than I want, so I wonder if it would be a good idea to mix in some sort of hardening agent, such as an epoxy hardener, or perhaps model cement.  The stuff as it is is remarkably durable - in its dry state, I could not disfigure it by compressing it between my fingers.  It's quite similar to "Plastigoop" (google it), a strange heat-curable stuff used in kids' toy construction sets ("Creepy Crawlers") in the 1960s.

Experiments to follow.  I was going to start my own thread, but this one seems as good as any!  :)

[nebula]

So I built a makeshift mold and filled it will silicone caulking.  The stuff I used is "GE Silicone II".  I ended up with a pretty usable product.  The consistency and durability of it is perfect.  The mold I used was pretty primitive, which led to the bottom of my 5-button rubber test membrane being somewhat uneven, but overall I'm pleased with the result.

I started taking the mold apart after it had been given about 2 days to set up.  Unfortunately this was not enough time.  Looks like it needs about 1-2 weeks.

LEDs don't light up the buttons quite as well as I would like to see.  I'll be experimenting with that some more.

I took some pics.  I'll post them shortly.

[bilderbuchi]

so any updates on this nebula?

[nebula]

Hmmmm ... I took pics, and I started a new thread.  See here.

I will see this one to the end, because I really want rubber buttons in a custom arrangement for this project, however I have decided to prototype it first using ordinary buttons so that I can tweak the software and the panel layout.  Then I'll attempt to mold a complete button membrane.