MIDIbox SID-NUXX-based synth on eBay?!?

[c0nsumer]

Well, a couple things. First, my sockpuppet account was pretty poorly named (not sure what I was thinking there -- I was in a hurry and frustrated), and the bid was axed. Then my next bid (from the c0nsumer account) was axed, and I can't create new eBay accounts anymore. I think a friend is going to bid it up, but I'm not sure.

I'm done. I tried. I asked for help, I filed the appropriate paperwork with eBay as soon as I had access to a fax machine, I communicated with eBay as quickly as possible, and despite my efforts the whole conversation here eventually took a turn which began to blame my sharing for the woes mentioned in this thread.

All the time spent on the MIDIbox SID-NUXX was done with the intention of sharing all the work done, as I think can be seen from the release, how everything was posted, the license on my portion of things, etc. It was all done with the best of intentions, and now I see that trying to contribute back to a project has bit me in the ass.

I've pulled down all the CAD files (both EAGLE files and rendered photoplotter/drill files) from my site, pulled all the MIDIbox SID-NUXX-specific binaries (these were just the normal MIOS / SID / whatever files compiled for the PIC itself with control surface changes), and updated the text appropriately. It's now just a well photographed, extensive documentation of what I did and what parts I used.

Hopefully that's enough for everyone.

-Steve

[stryd_one]

I say we sue eBay.

c0nsumer did your friend bid? Or should I get on it?

[c0nsumer]

c0nsumer did your friend bid? Or should I get on it?

If you want to, go for it. I went to bed for a while and he went offline, so I'm not sure what happened. I can't sleep (slept in today, and thinking about this a lot) so I just popped back here to see the status of things.

Hell, maybe I'll try sniping it as well. I'm usually good at that.

Crap, and it ended as I was typing that. Well, hopefully that's someone who will tag it as counterfit or whatever.

Guess I'll try going back to sleep. Goodnight. :)

-Steve

[Wilba]

I have sent a message to the winner of the auction informing them of the facts and linking to this thread. Perhaps they will not pay this profiteer the (inflated) winning bid price.

[Davo]

I have sent a message to the winner of the auction informing them of the facts and linking to this thread. Perhaps they will not pay this profiteer the (inflated) winning bid price.

I did so as well.

[stryd_one]

:'(

[KnowGood]

Hi all,

I bid (helloreb) on it but f23ked up and entered $500 instead of $5000 like I had intended. I was using auction sniper and it was too late for me to correct it, but I I thought I would come here not to tell you that but to show you this...

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200144257229

Our friend is the current highest bidder. He obviously plans on making more and selling them. If the seller is a user by any chance, please cancel his bid and block him from further bidding on any and all of your auctions.

Cheers,

Tyler

[SLP]

:o such an a*shole!!!!

thanks for telling us, KnowGood.

(As you're a member of the community now it shouldnt be a big step to build a MB-SID yourself now  :) )

[Jidis]

:'(

That's putting it mildly.

So that >$500 winning bid is an actual purchase?

Smash says he's done this before. What did he sell that time and has anyone talked directly to him about the fact that he was asked not to do this (and gotten a response)? Seems hard to believe.

Sympathies to all involved,

George 

[nebula]

This mess is in part a result of you taking the MIDIbox IP and slapping another kind of non-commercial license on them and releasing the PCB layout files for all to make their own (including the profiteers of the world like Flavio). It has had the effect of diluting the MIDIbox-ness...

I'm not sure whether sharing PCB layouts with the community has more or less MIDIbox-ness than not sharing them.

For that matter, looking at the design of the item on eBay, I would say that the seller really benefitted very little from the NUXX design.  It could have been as easily built with a CORE and a SID module, given the size of the enclosure he used.

Instead of discretely getting this auction pulled and privately asking SmashTV and/or TK for support to back your claims to eBay, you've broadcast everything here on a public forum

Sorry - this public forum does not draw people in to buy MIDIboxes from ebay.  In fact, I think that a post about it on the MIDIbox forum would have quite the opposite effect, with all the "non-commercial" emphasis that is found everywhere around here.  Matrixsynth, the blog of droolworthy synth pics and news, drew over 120,000 unique visitors last month.

I fail to see how you could not get eBay to kill this auction, but I was at least reassured you would take care of things regardless:

I regularly advise eBay of fraudulent auctions and they often don't react for several days.  It's sad, but it should reflect poorly on eBay, not c0nsumer.

You care more about people making money off "your work" and the terms of some PCB CAD software license than people making money off the the collective work of everyone who freely contributed to MIDIbox SID in ideas, code and support?

Getting the auction pulled would have served the interest of all license holders here.  Because the PCB design belongs to c0nsumer, it is much easier for him to argue his own license issues than TK's (equally valid) MIDIbox license.

[/tilted/]

Just sent a note to the winning bidder outlining the breach of IP laws and explaining that they could make their own for a great deal less than US$510... Maybe they'll

realise they're being grossly ripped off! I sent them links to ucapps.de and to this forum thread.

[KnowGood]

:o such an a*shole!!!!

thanks for telling us, KnowGood.

(As you're a member of the community now it shouldnt be a big step to build a MB-SID yourself now  :) )

No prob, and thanks for the warm welcome. I had no intentions off actually buying his box though. Seems I just tipped him off to my intentions if he is now reading this. Oh well. I would just like to point out that he now has this auction running:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290155185277

Maybe if someone has his name they can run it to find out his address and pay him a visit?

[opkod]

selling DIY midi synth seems to be a bizness for people...  >:(  (see the others auctions : http://cgi.ebay.ca/ANALOG-SYNTH-SOUND-LAB_W0QQitemZ290154737201QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38071QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem )

[SLP]

Maybe if someone has his name they can run it to find out his address and pay him a visit?

yeah.... and set his car alight

[b-funk]

please - keine gewalt!

it seems that blue_lantern (the seller) is an active member of electro-music.com...

i think i´ll post a link to this thread there, to let the communitiy know what kind of person this is. because he´s also selling designs of ray wilson (music from outer space - it´s the soundlab he´s offering) and i´m not sure how ray handels this issue.

at least we can try to kill his reputation - what a fucker!

best,

tobias.

[nebula]

He's selling a second MB-SID:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANALOG-SYNTH-SID_W0QQitemZ290155185277QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38071QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[sneakthief]

I just posted about this in one of his threads on the electro-music forum:

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=135705#135705

He is also selling MFOS synths which may also be in violation of Ray Wilson's agreement: "Everything on Music From Outer Space is freely available for non-commercial use"

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ANALOG-SYNTH-SOUND-LAB_W0QQitemZ290154737201QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38071QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[SLP]

please - keine gewalt!

I didn't actually think that anyone would take my demand seriously.

[b-funk]

hi sneak,

so you were faster than me. thank you for posting this at electro-music...

i was thinking of telling ray wilson about this issues, maybe he can do something about this.

btw, your tempco is here. please pm me, so we can figure something out...

best wishes,

tobias.

[b-funk]

@slp

well, of course i didn´t take this serious, it´s just my understanding of solving conflicts to avoid threatenings...

the mob rules  ;D

t.

[midiboxxer]

@ sneakthief

The post was an good idea.

We should bomb ebay with emails. Perhaps they will do something when there is more then only one complaint.

[c0nsumer]

I'm not sure whether sharing PCB layouts with the community has more or less MIDIbox-ness than not sharing them.

For that matter, looking at the design of the item on eBay, I would say that the seller really benefitted very little from the NUXX design.  It could have been as easily built with a CORE and a SID module, given the size of the enclosure he used.

I felt that sharing my work was the best possible thing that could be done. I did a good bit of original work, documented everything well, and shared it back with the restriction (on my work only) that changes to it be re-shared and that it not be used for commercial purposes. It was wholly done in the spirit of a community project.

I regularly advise eBay of fraudulent auctions and they often don't react for several days.  It's sad, but it should reflect poorly on eBay, not c0nsumer.

56 hours elapsed between my fax being sent and first contact from eBay. I replied to eBay within a few minutes with supporting photos, license info, and links to information about my project (including the strings of text used in the eBay auction) and it took eBay another 18 hours to respond to that.

Additionally, because eBay will not earn final value fees on canceled items, eBay has a distinct financial interest in not enforcing the IP rights of small individuals / groups who cannot legally threaten them.

Because the PCB design belongs to c0nsumer, it is much easier for him to argue his own license issues than TK's (equally valid) MIDIbox license.

That's precisely it. Because I do not have rights to the MIDIbox stuffs (only the MIDIbox SID-NUXX PCB designs and the content on the page) I can't rightfully make a request based on the MIDIbox IP. Additionally, as part of acquiring a non-profit license for CadSoft EAGLE I entered into a legal agreement that resulting designs would not be used for for-profit work. While it sounds distasteful, this legal agreement holds more legal weight than a feeling of community, regardless of how strong those feelings are. That is the foremost reason why this was my reason / justification for desiring that this auction be removed.

And, I tried. Unfortunately the second message from eBay also declared the rights issue to be 'unclear'. I can somewhat understand eBay's stance, as the auction does not make it clear that there is any direct link to either MIDIbox, MIDIbox SID, or my MIDIbox SID-NUXX. I thought that providing correlating photographic proof that parts of the auction are from designs licensed not for commercial sale, but it clearly wasn't enough. (In eBay's defense, I can see easy confusion between right of first sale and a violation of copyright -- which these boards are -- because eBay has no proof that the seller had the boards manufactured himself. This would also be something very difficult to prove, because the only proof I have of it is a single piece of email from the seller saying that he had the boards made via PCBEXPRESS.)

-Steve

[c0nsumer]

You handed a layout over to the profiteers (with pure intent though, not trying to be critical of that) but since your site reads more like a fork than a 'here is what I built using TKs plan', I would have to take action against you for infringement via your release of a derivative work before I have any solid legal ground for making eBay pull the auction.

I hope I'm not drudging up crap again, but as the MIDIbox SID-NUXX design runs stock MIOS / SID app (again, the only changes are to config options so that it'll compile and run on the particular PIC / control surface / EEPROM used), I'd think TK's IP would be wholly valid for pulling these (now multiple) auctions.

I didn't intend for the site to read like a fork, but a one-off "here's what I did, none of the rights to software and designs which mine is based on are mine". If you think it should be changed from its current reading to further reenforce this, I'll gladly do that.

-Steve

[nebula]

I would have to take action against you for infringement via your release of a derivative work before I have any solid legal ground for making eBay pull the auction.

Maybe I'm being obtuse here' date=' but ... what does going after a derivative release have to do with other, existing IP in the project being sold?  It contains TK's circuit designs and firmware.

If I made a MIDIbox SID and sold it on eBay but used my own layout, or put it on vectorboard, would that somehow cause me to be violating the MIDIbox licence less?

I always thought that we are required to release our derivative works.  I am reminded of an old thread in I announced my plans to create a new PCB layout:

I'm hoping to be a little ambitious and create a PCB layout that will put all of this stuff together' date=' and be easy to etch by not including tracks that run between IC pins (i.e. no less than 1/10 inch spacing).

As I understood that conversation' date=' four years ago, we are in fact [b']required to release our derivative works.  Just at TK has provided his circuit and firmware to anybody, he asked that if we somehow improve upon it, then we must make our changes available to the community.  Seriously - I'm not playing dumb here - am I wrong, or has this changed somehow?

[TK.]

As I understood that conversation, four years ago, we are in fact required to release our derivative works.

Interesting, how my words are interpreted four years later.

The intention of this sentence was to motivate you for sharing your layouts with others. It's continuous improvement - others might feel inspirated to make your work even better.

You interpreted my words as I would have requested it the following way:

"don't forget to publish your layout when it is up and running! "

However, this was four years ago. Many things happened until then. Similar things which happened with certain other SDIY people, and which forced them to remove layouts, schematics and other sources from their websites, and to share them only in private circles to prevent commercial cannibalization.

Best Regards, Thorsten.